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Thread: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

  1. #1

    Default Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Recently and for quite awhile around clubsnap, I have been seeing newbies, beginners, clueless people that are being shot down by Senior Members when asking a perfectly innocent question.

    Example:

    newbie: "what is the difference between a ND filter and a grad ND filter ?"
    Senior Member: "pls go google or make a search... what are search engines for????!!!! "

    But I am sure that what this forum is about is to answer questions and queries for those newbies and beginners. or is it what this forum is NOT about?

    Any comments from guys out there?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    there is a huge difference between a question that is asked because someone was confused, needed something sorting out,

    as opposed to a question that is asked because someone was just plain lazy and wanted to be spoonfed.

    if you see any senior member being rude to someone who didn't quite understand what f-stops were about or why they worked in opposite direction to the aperture size, or how to compensate when using a nd110, for example..... then by all means, you can feel incensed. i'm sure we've all been there at one point in time or another.

    i suppose you might have seen me doing that at times. i usually *try* to include some brief answer instead of just asking people to google. it is just my belief that the bulk of the questions being asked are simply a sign of laziness, complacency, and an inability to make full use of resources at one's disposal. i also happen to believe that that is something we should not encourage.

    so tell me, threadstarter, if you have say, a colleague who knows you are into photography. he then asks you anything and everything from:

    1) how to turn on camera?

    2) how to use camera?

    3) how to charge battery?

    you will be fine with it? then glory to you, you have the patience of a saint.

    we always talk about mutual respect, i think that doesn't encompass being nice to anyone and everyone. it just means that you respect someone you do not know enough to assume that he has half a brain to want to seek out information by himself (and information that he could seek out easily), and chide him gently if he has forgotten that. *that* , to me, is mutual respect.
    Last edited by night86mare; 5th May 2010 at 08:34 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    just to prove my point, i copy and paste that question into google, first two results:

    http://www.earthboundlight.com/photo...duated-nd.html

    http://www.great-landscape-photograp...d-filters.html

    these are articles which are lengthy and dedicated specifically to educate the beginner.

    it is very different from a curt answer that you might get in clubsnap...... or did you also expect people to give detailed article-like replies?

  4. #4
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    be independent is wad i always say. why do u want people to spoon feed u with info when u can try out, google and experiment urself?

    face it. i met worst people who asks me wad settings shld they use when they are at a beach. how am i supposed to tell them? "hey bro just use f8 iso 100 and shutter speed 1/60 s"?

    it depends on wad u wanna shoot and how u want ur image to look like. and i cant possibly spoonfeed u that.

    its not just Senior Members shooting new members down. anyone who doesnt google and asks stupid questions deserve to be shot down even apart from cs. perhaps maybe only when u googled and u needed us to explain further, like maybe wads high speed sync, u throw in the excerpt and ask us to translate for u. at least u tried.

    its the effort tat counts.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    there is a huge difference between a question that is asked because someone was confused, needed something sorting out,

    as opposed to a question that is asked because someone was just plain lazy and wanted to be spoonfed.

    if you see any senior member being rude to someone who didn't quite understand what f-stops were about or why they worked in opposite direction to the aperture size, or how to compensate when using a nd110, for example..... then by all means, you can feel incensed. i'm sure we've all been there at one point in time or another.

    i suppose you might have seen me doing that at times. i usually *try* to include some brief answer instead of just asking people to google. it is just my belief that the bulk of the questions being asked are simply a sign of laziness, complacency, and an inability to make full use of resources at one's disposal. i also happen to believe that that is something we should not encourage.

    so tell me, threadstarter, if you have say, a colleague who knows you are into photography. he then asks you anything and everything from:

    1) how to turn on camera?

    2) how to use camera?

    3) how to charge battery?

    you will be fine with it? then glory to you, you have the patience of a saint.

    we always talk about mutual respect, i think that doesn't encompass being nice to anyone and everyone. it just means that you respect someone you do not know enough to assume that he has half a brain to want to seek out information by himself, and chide him gently if he has forgotten that. *that* , to me, is mutual respect.
    frankly speaking, i wont not mind teaching him all those. there are people like that around that needs some patient guidance and teaching. however, you are assuming that those people are lazy and being complacent that they are not using their resources. some of them really did find and still for some reason cant find?

    have that ever cross the minds of those who just reply without sparing a thought for others?

    any comments?

  6. #6
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiNn View Post
    frankly speaking, i wont not mind teaching him all those. there are people like that around that needs some patient guidance and teaching. however, you are assuming that those people are lazy and being complacent that they are not using their resources. some of them really did find and still for some reason cant find?

    have that ever cross the minds of those who just reply without sparing a thought for others?

    any comments?
    do u think we shoot ppl down for fun? the first thing we do is to always plunk ur questions down into google and if we dun see a result we answer.

    how on earth u think we get the links to ur questions that u cant ans? cause we googled

  7. #7

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiNn View Post
    frankly speaking, i wont not mind teaching him all those. there are people like that around that needs some patient guidance and teaching. however, you are assuming that those people are lazy and being complacent that they are not using their resources. some of them really did find and still for some reason cant find?

    have that ever cross the minds of those who just reply without sparing a thought for others?

    any comments?
    i will always, always copy the question into google , word for word.

    have they really tried to find? most of these people are not 50 year olds who weren't in the era of the internet. those have a reason. i was once told off by someone who told me that they were from a generation which was not so familiar with computers and that their english wasn't all that great. i apologised, that was really my fault.

    most of these people shooting off questions are 18 year olds, 24 year olds, they have no excuse.. from what i see, their english is also passable enough to find such answers to the questions they ask.

    you can paint it any way you want, they want to be spoonfed. you can indulge them like you indulge a spoilt child. i refuse. that's how it is.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Wow TS, i love the way you type, what keyboard do you use???

    Is my question good enough???
    Last edited by Leong23; 5th May 2010 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    by the way, i am sick and tired of people passing comments on senior members.

    senior members are not something AWARDED and BESTOWED by the great gods of clubsnap.

    it is an automatic status based on:
    1) length from sign up date
    2) x number of posts, which is not hard to hit (i'd be one to say, yes i know)

    so people, stop going around thinking that all senior members are kind, jolly, jovial fat old men like santa claus. i'm not kind, i'm not jolly, and probably not very jovial. i'd like to think that i'm not fat, and maybe i am getting a little bit old, but i'm no santa claus.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    by the way, i am sick and tired of people passing comments on senior members.

    senior members are not something AWARDED and BESTOWED by the great gods of clubsnap.

    it is an automatic status based on:
    1) length from sign up date
    2) x number of posts, which is not hard to hit (i'd be one to say, yes i know)

    so people, stop going around thinking that all senior members are kind, jolly, jovial fat old men like santa claus. i'm not kind, i'm not jolly, and probably not very jovial. i'd like to think that i'm not fat, and maybe i am getting a little bit old, but i'm no santa claus.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    just happens so that like i see most of the shooting is done by senior members. its not a sterotype.

    no one is assuming that senior members are awarded, bestowed by the great gods of CS neither is another assuming fat old santa clauses.

    just some kinder tones around the forum will make it more pleasant to view and surf the forums.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    by the way, i am sick and tired of people passing comments on senior members.

    senior members are not something AWARDED and BESTOWED by the great gods of clubsnap.

    it is an automatic status based on:
    1) length from sign up date
    2) x number of posts, which is not hard to hit (i'd be one to say, yes i know)

    so people, stop going around thinking that all senior members are kind, jolly, jovial fat old men like santa claus. i'm not kind, i'm not jolly, and probably not very jovial. i'd like to think that i'm not fat, and maybe i am getting a little bit old, but i'm no santa claus.
    Only someone with over 22,000 posts will say that

  13. #13

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Ok, to me is simple, you go insane doing the same thing over and over again (answering the same old question everytime).

    Try to think further and you know why the senior members did that.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiNn View Post
    just some kinder tones around the forum will make it more pleasant to view and surf the forums.
    it would be also more pleasant to view and surf the forums without getting the impression that singaporean photographers are like...... toddlers who need handholding and candy to keep them happy and content.

    what is kindness?

    is the attempt to highlight to someone that he can do better than how he is doing things now kind? or is closing your eyes to his shortfallings and babysitting him kind?

    you tell me.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    by the way, i am sick and tired of people passing comments on senior members.

    senior members are not something AWARDED and BESTOWED by the great gods of clubsnap.

    it is an automatic status based on:
    1) length from sign up date
    2) x number of posts, which is not hard to hit (i'd be one to say, yes i know)

    so people, stop going around thinking that all senior members are kind, jolly, jovial fat old men like santa claus. i'm not kind, i'm not jolly, and probably not very jovial. i'd like to think that i'm not fat, and maybe i am getting a little bit old, but i'm no santa claus.
    Slim, a little old, geeky, bi-specs who stays 24/7 on the comp with a 22000+ replies to his name, senior member?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by kkvolution View Post
    Ok, to me is simple, you go insane doing the same thing over and over again (answering the same old question everytime).

    Try to think further and you know why the senior members did that.
    it is not that,

    i am more than happy to entertain people on locations for sunset/sunrise.

    or to explain more clearly how to set custom WB for ir photography.

    these are things which, even when written clearly, need a certain amount of trial and error to get right..... or there is little compiled literature on it that is done up properly.

    clarifying a concept that one cannot get right, versus "oh, please, shower me with love and information"........ i don't think anyone in the world prefers entertaining the second to the first unless they are masochistic.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by kkvolution View Post
    Ok, to me is simple, you go insane doing the same thing over and over again (answering the same old question everytime).

    Try to think further and you know why the senior members did that.
    I guess the simpler thing is to leave the answering to others.

    To a certain extent, I see where the TS is coming from. There are some needless sarcastic replies to newbie question.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiNn View Post
    Slim, a little old, geeky, bi-specs who stays 24/7 on the comp with a 22000+ replies to his name, senior member?
    i don't think i am slim either.

    geeky, perhaps, that's for people who have met me to decide.

    bi-specs...................... hrm. i don't even know what that means.

    stay 24/7 on the comp, yes, i do, that's how i send out my camera to take photos for me.

    22,000+ replies to my name... i'm sorry, it just got that way because i type quite fast and reply quite fast.

    i do think you are trying to get personal. first strike, give you benefit of doubt, next strike... perhaps you might want to reconsider. i tend to get under people's skin more than they get under mine.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by kkvolution View Post
    Ok, to me is simple, you go insane doing the same thing over and over again (answering the same old question everytime).

    Try to think further and you know why the senior members did that.
    however, you are NOT required to answer them...someone else will... if u feel that its realli insane doing the same thing over, just leave it? there will be someone who hasnt feel that its insane to reply...

  20. #20
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Senior Members.....ClubSnap.... Newbies.... Questions.....

    Here trotteth I out the age old saying,

    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Totally in a personal capacity and not speaking as a mod, senior member, or any other such capacity.

    Sometimes maybe attitudes can be toned down... I can see both sides; bear in mind the experienced member will have seen that same question multiple times, but I accept that the newbie hasn't and the old hand shouldn't necessarily take it out on him, but it does happen.

    But at the same time night86mare's points are valid; some of the questions are very inane and a quick web search would yield the same information, more extensively.

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