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Thread: Prosumer Camera

  1. #21
    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylan2000 View Post
    There is absolutely no doubt that we need P&S, no one is debating that. We are talking about intermediate cameras, whether we need something "not here and not there" or "best of both world".

    To me the bottom line is DSLR and P&S... not a middle one.
    Please define middle, as I do see a grey area there. To me S90 is part of the middle yet serve as a good PnS, to others, it could be a G11 or Pen, or NX-10.

    Some "middle" are more towards low end DSLRs, bulkier than other "middles". Some people feel they do not need all the perks of a full blown DSLRs (lower priced), so that is the "middle" they are looking for.

    What I'm suggesting is getting a "middle" that's not too bulky yet shoots a hell lot better than most high-end PnS... I won't suggest something more than that if he/she would eventually move on to DSLRs. And I'm not suggesting that the heavier end "middles" cannot shoot good pictures either. All cameras serve different market needs, otherwise the "middles" would have perished a long time ago... why bother releasing newer models after models?
    Last edited by kriegsketten; 5th May 2010 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #22
    Member kaylan2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    there are quite a few macro shooters here using prosumers, last i visited macro section seriously, their shots trumped a lot of dslr macro shooters. think tchuanye was one of them, not sure if he's switched; *damselfly on flickr used to use a SONY P&S camera - not even prosumer to take her macro shots.

    here are shots taken by something that serious hobbyists should NEVER EVER use:





    my point is, saying that if you are serious means that you should get a dslr, i can be way more elitist than that and tell you that if you are serious then you should get a medium format camera.

    i have seen very serious and good photographers using the g11 and nothing else to shoot landscapes.

    there is a place for the prosumer in the market, everyone has different needs:

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282608

    being serious about photograpy has little to do with gear.. little to do with how you dress, little to do with how you talk, how you dig your nose.... it has everything to do with attitude.
    Fully agree, the person behind the camera is equally important as the camera itself. Lets not go into the debate if person is more important or camera more important!!, lets agree they are both EQUALLY important.
    1Ds II | EF 16-35L| EF 24-105L | EF 35f/2.0 | EF 50f/1.8 | EF 85f/1.8 | EF 100L |EF 70-300L| EX 550

  3. #23
    Member kaylan2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    Please define middle, as I do see a grey area there. To me S90 is part of the middle yet serve as a good PnS, to others, it could be a G11 or Pen, or NX-10.

    Some "middle" are more towards low end DSLRs, bulkier than other "middles". Some people feel they do not need all the perks of a full blown DSLRs (lower priced), so that is the "middle" they are looking for.

    What I'm suggesting is getting a "middle" that's not too bulky yet shoots a hell lot better than most high-end PnS... I won't suggest something more than that if he/she would eventually move on to DSLRs. And I'm not suggesting that the heavier end "middles" cannot shoot good pictures either. All cameras serve different market needs, otherwise the "middles" would have perished a long time ago... why bother releasing newer models after models?
    By middle, I mean those DSLR look alike with a fixed lens, which is generally termed as "Prosumer" or "Bridge Camera"

    finally, lets not take comments so personally. different people has different ways of looking into the same thing. Cheers!!
    1Ds II | EF 16-35L| EF 24-105L | EF 35f/2.0 | EF 50f/1.8 | EF 85f/1.8 | EF 100L |EF 70-300L| EX 550

  4. #24

    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylan2000 View Post
    Fully agree, the person behind the camera is equally important as the camera itself. Lets not go into the debate if person is more important or camera more important!!, lets agree they are both EQUALLY important.
    yes, so you have to remember........

    not everyone needs a dslr.

    i wanted a dslr because the maximum on my prosumer was f/8. also, widest was 35mm.

    no long exposures... no wide angles....... so change.

    not everyone needs that, especially with prosumers being more well-designed today.

  5. #25
    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylan2000 View Post
    By middle, I mean those DSLR look alike with a fixed lens, which is generally termed as "Prosumer" or "Bridge Camera"

    finally, lets not take comments so personally. different people has different ways of looking into the same thing. Cheers!!
    None taken too personally, rest assured. When in the middle of a serious discussion anything can be misconstrued as way over serious leading to heated debates. So it's good to ascertain that we're not "at war"...

  6. #26
    Member kaylan2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    yes, so you have to remember........

    not everyone needs a dslr.

    i wanted a dslr because the maximum on my prosumer was f/8. also, widest was 35mm.

    no long exposures... no wide angles....... so change.

    not everyone needs that, especially with prosumers being more well-designed today.
    Exactly, sooner or later you will realise all these limitations and will be forced to upgrade... so why not at the first place.
    As you know, there is no magic lens that can cover 28-300 kind of range. Any lens need to cover that range need to compromise somewhere else, and generally it's on IQ. That was the most annoying thing for me, it's a fixed lens!! you can not change it.

    Anyway, thanks for a good discussion. Be assured that nothing personal, it's just different way of looking ..
    1Ds II | EF 16-35L| EF 24-105L | EF 35f/2.0 | EF 50f/1.8 | EF 85f/1.8 | EF 100L |EF 70-300L| EX 550

  7. #27
    Member kaylan2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    None taken too personally, rest assured. When in the middle of a serious discussion anything can be misconstrued as way over serious leading to heated debates. So it's good to ascertain that we're not "at war"...
    Come on.. no way "at war"
    just exchange of experience and learn from each other.
    1Ds II | EF 16-35L| EF 24-105L | EF 35f/2.0 | EF 50f/1.8 | EF 85f/1.8 | EF 100L |EF 70-300L| EX 550

  8. #28

    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylan2000 View Post
    Exactly, sooner or later you will realise all these limitations and will be forced to upgrade... so why not at the first place.
    As you know, there is no magic lens that can cover 28-300 kind of range. Any lens need to cover that range need to compromise somewhere else, and generally it's on IQ. That was the most annoying thing for me, it's a fixed lens!! you can not change it.

    Anyway, thanks for a good discussion. Be assured that nothing personal, it's just different way of looking ..
    not everyone needs wide angles or small apertures...

  9. #29
    Member kaylan2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    not everyone needs wide angles or small apertures...
    Exactly that what I thought when I settled for a Prosumer... I was proven wrong in less than a year time .. probably I overgrown too fast
    1Ds II | EF 16-35L| EF 24-105L | EF 35f/2.0 | EF 50f/1.8 | EF 85f/1.8 | EF 100L |EF 70-300L| EX 550

  10. #30
    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylan2000 View Post
    Exactly that what I thought when I settled for a Prosumer... I was proven wrong in less than a year time .. probably I overgrown too fast
    True, but not everyone = everyone, and those who jumped into DSLRs right away may end up too steep of a climb during the learning process which would eventually kill the interest afterall? There are a lot of possibilities, and no right answers. Don't forget that you DID go through the prosumer route (which still translates to a gentler learning curve) versus someone who has none to begin with? Just voicing a differing opinion. Plus, not everyone learn in the same speed - longer versus short, not to mention other interferences and priorities in life that suddenly jumps in...

    Btw, using the word "war" was an overkill, I didn't really mean it that way either - too direct.
    Last edited by kriegsketten; 5th May 2010 at 06:44 PM.

  11. #31

    Smile Re: Prosumer Camera

    thanx everyone for the enlightening debate over prosumer and dslr
    they realli did set me thinking what i need. mayb i can share my tots and see what u experienced photographers have for me.

    i have attended a very basic photography lesson back in uni which kind of spark my interest in photography.

    i just came back from an overseas trip and my sony PnS give way halfway thru the trip, hence few photos were taken..sad. hence i am now getting a new camera! i was looking at a dslr at first. however, one of my close fren who bought it abt a year back seldom uses it cos its way too bulky. hence, i turned to prosumer...since its alot smaller. Also, i am not too sure if i will be (or will be able to) investing in other photography gadgets in the future.

    for me, i would like my NEW camera to be:
    - not too bulky so i can carry them ard and snap, snap, snap
    - able to let me use as a PnS at times (esp when my other frens are using it) and also try some tricks here and there when time allows

    I did think of just getting a better PnS but i am kind of bored of just "pointing and shooting" :P


    anyway, recently i compared pictures i took with my sony PnS with pictures taken by my bro's canon PnS (all the pictures are taken at the same time and location, but a little different angle) and I just find the pictured from canon abit too exposed. it has this powdery/gloomy feeling whenever there is strong lightening. Was thinking if canon's prosumer might have the same images?

    thanx!

  12. #32

    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    hi,

    that is just a matter of choice of metering.

    it just happens that canon perhaps tends to take the underexposure path, this can easily be resolved when you get a hang of what exposure is, what exposure compensation is. learning how your equipment functions and responding to it, that is why humans operate cameras, not the other way around.

    prosumers will give you quite more control over the results you get as opposed to P&S. therefore, this is not something you should worry about, if you are indeed serious and intend to read up more about the intrinsics of photography.

  13. #33
    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Guess what? The case about the steep learning curve in relation to DSLRs I've mentioned earlier on has just arised, please read about "To down grade or not..." thread. Not taking the opportunity to mock or poke fun at anyone - I thank the newbie for bringing up his situation so that we can understand the fact that it is always not advisable to go straight into something that we're totally unfamiliar with. Remember the old adage: "how can you even learn how to run, when you haven't even learn how to walk?"

    It maybe okay for some, but not for everyone (and for god's sake, I'm not implying anyone who is a slow learner is not bright - on the CONTRARY, he/she may be a genius in other fields!)

  14. #34

    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    i would be very happy if have a 18-200 f2.8 prosumer with IS, tiltable lcd, runs on AA and can do 8fps yet has pinpoint accuracy in tracking the subject.

    until there is one, have to live with dslr system.
    Last edited by Reportage; 6th May 2010 at 12:13 AM.
    You wont see me much less remember me but i am the guy who makes you look good.

  15. #35
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylan2000 View Post
    I think mine also S9500 , still sitting in my digicabi.

    Precisely thats the point I was stressing on. If someone is serious about photography, no need to waste money in some intermediate things. I did the mistake and I know many of my friends did similar mistake. Few of my friends purchased some DSLR brands without much lens/accessories support and end up in changing camp in less than a year time. no need to mention that with financial losses.

    I said 'mistake' bcoz we enjoyed the bridge camera for a relatively short period, not becoz of the camera but becoz of the underlying technologies. If it was 2-3 years time then I would say that it was part of the journey....
    I used the S9500 for 4 years. It followed me across the globe and took many of my memorable pictures. I still have it and it still take wonderful pictures. The one big complain I have is that this camera is very weak in long exposures. Sounds like nigh86mare had some similar experiences. One other thing I see of the S9500 is that diffraction starts to happen at around F11. Needless to say, it is also a lot harder to achieve a thin DOF on this camera.

    That said, this camera does takes some amazing pictures. Here are a couple:



    Last edited by daredevil123; 6th May 2010 at 01:04 PM.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Diavonex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Picture from my 5 year old Sony prosumer camera.


  17. #37

    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I used the S9500 for 4 years. It followed me across the globe and took many of my memorable pictures. I still have it and it still take wonderful pictures. The one big complain I have is that this camera is very weak in long exposures. Sounds like nigh86mare had some similar experiences. One other thing I see of the S9500 is that diffraction starts to happen at around F11. Needless to say, it is also a lot harder to achieve a thin DOF on this camera.

    That said, this camera does takes some amazing pictures. Here are a couple:
    the bold words....you might want to rephrase it.... this phrase seems like saying camera is more important...

    i have a sony 505 that allow me to take wonderful photos with.

    With that say.... if you are not sure and simply just want to save some money in the beginning.... you probably want to consider some of the 2nd hand entry level dslr together with the prosumer camera. Some of these with kit lens are selling below your budget here in cs.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by coolthought View Post
    the bold words....you might want to rephrase it.... this phrase seems like saying camera is more important...
    don't think so, i think he just meant that the camera can take amazing pictures with the know-how.

    i suppose some people might find iphone pictures very good, everytime someone posts up an iphone gallery it is more of a gimmick to me than anything else. can't say i've seen more than a good 5 nice iphone photos in my life......

  19. #39

    Default Re: Prosumer Camera

    Hi,

    I realise several replied that I can get good deals for the prosumer camera if I know where to get them. possible to share here or PM me? Thanx!!

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