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Thread: Where can i take the photography course

  1. #41
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where can i take the photography course

    Quote Originally Posted by SHLEW View Post
    Hi,
    As I was the one who mentioned that I learnt my basic photography at JohnArifin,
    I feel that I should contribute something to this discussion.

    1. It was my son who paid for and signed up the course for me at John Ariffin. I do not know him at all.
    2. A little similar to kfchrispy, on and off, I was playing with a China Seagull box camera; a Olympus Pen-F and a Pentax ME Super and numerous P&S cams since 1969 - but never spent any useful time understanding the connection between aperture opening, shutter speed and ISO (if I am not wrong - it used to be called ASA). Picture composition is like Russian to me!!
    3. After I retired five years ago and while not doing anything useful except helping my wife to take care of our two grandchildren, I bought a dSLR (a cheap one - Lumix G-1) in November last year and started to take up photography seriously. And I attended John Ariffins intermediate photography course.
    4. I find the course very useful because I attended with an open mind - just like a sheet of blank white paper. After the 3 day X 4 hour course, I find that I am ready to hit the road and joined Club Snap. And I have been to many group outings. As an elderly man (I am 65 and have 2 grandchildren), I can tell you it takes courage, determination and thick skin to join Cleonbus (Sec2 boy) group in their outings. During the first outing with Cleonbus, and as I arrived early, everyone thought I was Cleonbus the organiser. Master Cleon had to stand up and tell everyone that he was the organiser!!
    5. Just like any business deal - whether it is buying something or signing up for some courses, there are those who consider themselves to benefit and those who do not agree.
    6. After reading the last few threads, I feel that dd123 if he was not a lawyer or mediator by profession should have been one. Although it does not concern him, he contributed a lot of very wise and learned views.

    Cheers, God Bless, Keep shooting!
    LEW
    Thanks for your insight LEW.

    No, I am not a lawyer. Neither am I a mediator. I find the law profession mostly deviod of sense of morality. And personally I hate to be a mediator as I get easy roused as well.

    I had been in the IT line for many years, but the last few was spent doing business development in China for a while, dealing with tough manufacturers, government officials and unscrupulous buyers from the western world. Tough enough job, if you ask me. I am back in the IT line for now... but not for long I think.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Where can i take the photography course

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Beliefs are different. And yes, there is nothing wrong to have a student in the midst who already knows everything. He is rendering a service which your gf paid for. It is not in his place to decide if you are finally learning it or not. That was your responsibility. It was also your responsibility (or your gf's) to get enrolled in the right class.

    Since you have thrown in a fair amount of analogies, please allow me to cite an example of my own. Have you ever seen a secondary 1 student in a class meant for primary 6 and the teacher happily teaching away as though it's the norm?
    If you feel that my argument is flawed, my view towards your analogies is similar.
    Perhaps you did not read my previous comment that my gf enrolled me in the beginner course instead of the intermediate course under his recommendation after having spoken to him over the phone. To give you some background, my gf does not know much about photography, and can only rely on the limited information on hand to choose a course for me. she consulted with John on which course would be appropriate for me and the beginner course was recommended by him.
    Once again, yes, i do not need to be reminded that ultimately my gf made the final call.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You should also look up online what "opportunity costs" means. Yes, it is that $200 lost.

    I know what opportunity cost means and do not have to search online for a definition. If you care enough to re-read what i wrote, you'll find that i said no opportunity costs were incurred other than the $200. Perhaps i should really brush up on my English.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    For the greater good, will you give me $200 if I ask you to? I'm serious dude, I will donate it on your behalf. You may think $200 is little money, but some people, who worked from the bottom up, value every cent. Every successful businessman will tell you that, it is in the dime and cents that you build up your business.

    With regards to the donation of $200, i have absolutely no idea how you can link it to this scenario. I'm not asking him to donate 200 bucks to charity, i'm asking him to reschedule my attendance. i am willing to pay for what was taught or even compromise on paying a higher amount and i will pay in full for the next course i attend. How does that translate into asking him to donate $200?

    No, i do not think $200 is little money. i come from a very humble background and every dollar counts. The only reason my gf paid for the course behind my back was cos she knows i scrimp too much to be willing to pay $300 for the course so please do not assume you know me well enough to criticize how i value money.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    And did you tell John beforehand about trying out the class for 1 day first to see how it goes? We all expect people to tell us before hand so we can make plans properly. Not after the fact.

    My gf called him and ask him for his opinion on which course would be suitable for me. He recommended the beginner course without clearly knowing my proficiency level. Am i assuming too much to say that he should know that without talking to me and knowing my knowledge on photography, there was a likelihood that the beginner course was not suitable for me? Would it come as a shock to him that he might have chosen the wrong course for me on the course day itself?

    How was i supposed to inform him beforehand when i only got to know of the course from my gf 1 day in advance? Have i not voiced out my concerns on the first day?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I am very sure if the situation is as stated by me, you will be very upset as well. Ok, so what if the couple tell you can leave after 3 hours, and ask you to go back to shoot the birth of their child. Same thing, you will be upset as well, and you will not go back and shoot anything for them.

    i have answered your question previously in all honesty, but if you already assumed that i will not go back and shoot anything for them, it would be meaningless to try and change your perception of me or convince you that i do not share your thoughts on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    It is the same for any classes or university programs you sign up and pay for. After you pay school fees for 1 semester, and attended the first day. Can you walk out, and approach Uni admin as ask for the remainder of your money back, just because you think you already know the stuff?

    So i am assuming that if you found out on the first day of your new course that you have registered for the wrong course, be it you've written down the wrong code on the registration form or was misguided into thinking at that point in time it was the right course for u, that you'll just keep quiet for the next 3 months and sit it through without trying to find ways to rectify it?

    I know i can't so when i found out that the course was not suited for me, i tried to resolve the issue. it's as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Dude, I have been very patient with you, but you just cannot see beyond "ME". It is the same whether you pay for a concert ticket, or a course with any school or university, or commercial training, seminar. It is all the same.

    Dude, i am not being rude but i have not asked for your patience. You choose to reply to my post. i have not asked you to mince your words to accommodate me nor have i forced you to accept my POV. If seeing beyond "ME" means having to conform to your ideals of what is right and wrong, i'm sorry but i am unable to see beyond "ME".

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Just because John Arifin held his course in his home, does not mean you can walk all over him and demand money back. Sorry dude. No can do. I am definitely not with you on this one.

    Regardless of where his courses are held, i would have done the same thing so i do not understand how u can associate me trying to "walk all over" John just cause he holds the courses in his home.

    In relation to the "walking all over John" portion, perhaps you can contact him and verify whether i have been rude or disrespectful to him. If the answer is yes, do feel free to post it here and drop me a message so i can get in touch with him to apologize if i indeed offended him in anyway with my words. And for the last time, i did not demand my money back, i asked for a possible transfer to a more appropriate course with top up from my side or any other form of alternatives that could be provided but none was offered. If you are still insistent that this equates to "demanding my money back" i have nothing further to comment.


    I think i have rattled on long enough and i do realize it's pretty pointless to continue rebutting so that's all i have to say.

    Happy shooting everyone

  3. #43
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where can i take the photography course

    Quote Originally Posted by kfchrispy View Post
    think i have rattled on long enough and i do realize it's pretty pointless to continue rebutting so that's all i have to say.

    Happy shooting everyone
    Yes, I think it is quite pointless as well. There is enough information here for any one to come to a logical conclusion and form an opinion about this information.

    You are still entitled to your opinions, and I to mine.

    But the points that not disputed are:
    - Subject matter he covers are very useful for people enrolled in the suitable class.
    - His teaching methods are good.
    - He is a good teacher.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 16th October 2010 at 08:43 AM.

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