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Thread: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    never. most people are using Windows based Server. Linux, Free bsd, Unix ( hp ux, aix, sun) cant even catch up...it is like rabbit vs turtle.


    if you are talking about mobile OS, then yes. apple might pwn Microsoft like microsoft pwned Palm OS.

    damn, my 1st pda is TRGpro....and palm is rabbit here...too lazy, not innovative.....bye Palm, rest in peace....palm also lose in the race because they control, they control who can use their OS on their devices.
    For desktop, I know Windows are the majority. How you know for servers, Windows are used by most people?
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  2. #102

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    never. most people are using Windows based Server. Linux, Free bsd, Unix ( hp ux, aix, sun) cant even catch up...it is like rabbit vs turtle.


    if you are talking about mobile OS, then yes. apple might pwn Microsoft like microsoft pwned Palm OS.

    damn, my 1st pda is TRGpro....and palm is rabbit here...too lazy, not innovative.....bye Palm, rest in peace....palm also lose in the race because they control, they control who can use their OS on their devices.
    You must be drunk and/or high. *NIX-based systems still power most services. Who is crazy enough to use Windows to run utilities and nuclear power stations?

    MS did not pwn Palm OS. Palm OS pwned itself.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    You must be drunk and/or high. *NIX-based systems still power most services. Who is crazy enough to use Windows to run utilities and nuclear power stations?

    MS did not pwn Palm OS. Palm OS pwned itself.
    Even though IDC did publish data that MS server market share is greater, there are much debate in whether the data is accurate. For example, many servers come pre-installed with MS server operating system but the users subsequently refresh it with Linux. Many linux servers also used old machines which the study did not take into account.

    However, all these counter arguments are only based circumstantial evidences. It would be disrepectful to call someone drunk or high just because you disagree with him.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    wanna know why iPhone is still the best? because it can dual-boot into Android too...

    check this out; http://www.quickpwn.com/2010/04/andr...on-iphone.html
    Mythbusters - the bigger the explosion, the better it is.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst


  6. #106

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter View Post
    How come it doesn't support java? But the odin user sums it up nicely.


    Someone's confusing "Open source/standard" with "Open platform".

    A handy cheat sheet:
    iPhone - Closed source/Closed platform
    Flash - Closed source/Open platform
    Android - Open source/Open platform
    OSX and Windows - Closed Source/Open platform
    Linux - Open Source/Open platform

  7. #107

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Aiyo, the thread OT very jialat liao. HAHAHAHA!!!

    Anyway, despite all Jobs' evil practice, i've to be totally honest with this. He's one guy who has brought lots of excitement in the computers & gadgets industry. That i must concede. Imagine w/o him & his ways, we'll stil be stuck with Windows CE in smartphones. 10 out of 10 people i asked, they all gave winmo thumbs down, i've also had an O2 b4 & didn't like it at all. The so-call smartphone is so very dumb!!

    I think people have to look at apple products like a designer brand, serves its purpose at a premium. Much like those fancy Stark design can-opener vs normal $8 type.

    i dun mind getting a mac computer, but i find it to be of little choices. Either i go laptop & its variants (ie, in the form of mac-mini & iMac, they use laptop parts but in bigger form factor. Familiar? It's like the iPad, iPod inert but huge form factor) or go the mac pro way (ie, server/workstation class, too exp for average user) There isn't an "in-between" desktop ver as we commonly associate with likes of HP or Asus or Acer, etc.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst


  9. #109

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    HAHAHAHA!! That was a funny one!!

    I rem the older days of the quadro series where u can buy a 7600 or 8600 or the top end 9600 & all have the expandability options. U can buy a DSP card & run some audio apps on the 7600 603 processor or 8600 with 604 processor. These new gen of macs, u have only mac pro option & nothing in between. Kind of sad, i feel. Also back in those days, apple actually shaft a SCSI drive as the bootup, really zippy & the reliability of SCSI drives r juz so much better than IDE. Today the premium price tag hasn't change but the SCSI is now SATA.

    I hope apple can have an in-between model so anyone can add extra drives or dedicated hardware (eg, DSP card to run Logic 9 or Pro 3D cards for Cinema4D, etc) to do more stuff. The higher end mac pro shud come with SAS bootup drive as default. Sounds cool? HAHAHAHA!!! Wonder if SSD will come in SAS interface? That wud break the SATA 3 spec, 6Gb/s barrier!!

    Sorry, i also OT liao.
    Last edited by nightpiper; 24th April 2010 at 11:35 PM.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

    Apple has a long relationship with Adobe. In fact, we met Adobe’s founders when they were in their proverbial garage. Apple was their first big customer, adopting their Postscript language for our new Laserwriter printer. Apple invested in Adobe and owned around 20% of the company for many years. The two companies worked closely together to pioneer desktop publishing and there were many good times. Since that golden era, the companies have grown apart. Apple went through its near death experience, and Adobe was drawn to the corporate market with their Acrobat products. Today the two companies still work together to serve their joint creative customers – Mac users buy around half of Adobe’s Creative Suite products – but beyond that there are few joint interests.

    I wanted to jot down some of our thoughts on Adobe’s Flash products so that customers and critics may better understand why we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. Adobe has characterized our decision as being primarily business driven – they say we want to protect our App Store – but in reality it is based on technology issues. Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true. Let me explain.

    First, there’s “Open”.

    Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.

    Apple has many proprietary products too. Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.

    Apple even creates open standards for the web. For example, Apple began with a small open source project and created WebKit, a complete open-source HTML5 rendering engine that is the heart of the Safari web browser used in all our products. WebKit has been widely adopted. Google uses it for Android’s browser, Palm uses it, Nokia uses it, and RIM (Blackberry) has announced they will use it too. Almost every smartphone web browser other than Microsoft’s uses WebKit. By making its WebKit technology open, Apple has set the standard for mobile web browsers.

    Second, there’s the “full web”.

    Adobe has repeatedly said that Apple mobile devices cannot access “the full web” because 75% of video on the web is in Flash. What they don’t say is that almost all this video is also available in a more modern format, H.264, and viewable on iPhones, iPods and iPads. YouTube, with an estimated 40% of the web’s video, shines in an app bundled on all Apple mobile devices, with the iPad offering perhaps the best YouTube discovery and viewing experience ever. Add to this video from Vimeo, Netflix, Facebook, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ESPN, NPR, Time, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, People, National Geographic, and many, many others. iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video.

    Another Adobe claim is that Apple devices cannot play Flash games. This is true. Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world.

    Third, there’s reliability, security and performance.

    Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash.

    In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010. We think it will eventually ship, but we’re glad we didn’t hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?

    Fourth, there’s battery life.

    To achieve long battery life when playing video, mobile devices must decode the video in hardware; decoding it in software uses too much power. Many of the chips used in modern mobile devices contain a decoder called H.264 – an industry standard that is used in every Blu-ray DVD player and has been adopted by Apple, Google (YouTube), Vimeo, Netflix and many other companies.

    Although Flash has recently added support for H.264, the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software. The difference is striking: on an iPhone, for example, H.264 videos play for up to 10 hours, while videos decoded in software play for less than 5 hours before the battery is fully drained.

    When websites re-encode their videos using H.264, they can offer them without using Flash at all. They play perfectly in browsers like Apple’s Safari and Google’s Chrome without any plugins whatsoever, and look great on iPhones, iPods and iPads.

    ...

  11. #111

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    ...

    Fifth, there’s Touch.

    Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers. For example, many Flash websites rely on “rollovers”, which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot. Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn’t use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover. Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?

    Even if iPhones, iPods and iPads ran Flash, it would not solve the problem that most Flash websites need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices.

    Sixth, the most important reason.

    Besides the fact that Flash is closed and proprietary, has major technical drawbacks, and doesn’t support touch based devices, there is an even more important reason we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. We have discussed the downsides of using Flash to play video and interactive content from websites, but Adobe also wants developers to adopt Flash to create apps that run on our mobile devices.

    We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers.

    This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms.

    Flash is a cross platform development tool. It is not Adobe’s goal to help developers write the best iPhone, iPod and iPad apps. It is their goal to help developers write cross platform apps. And Adobe has been painfully slow to adopt enhancements to Apple’s platforms. For example, although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5. Adobe was the last major third party developer to fully adopt Mac OS X.

    Our motivation is simple – we want to provide the most advanced and innovative platform to our developers, and we want them to stand directly on the shoulders of this platform and create the best apps the world has ever seen. We want to continually enhance the platform so developers can create even more amazing, powerful, fun and useful applications. Everyone wins – we sell more devices because we have the best apps, developers reach a wider and wider audience and customer base, and users are continually delighted by the best and broadest selection of apps on any platform.

    Conclusions.

    Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice. Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short.

    The avalanche of media outlets offering their content for Apple’s mobile devices demonstrates that Flash is no longer necessary to watch video or consume any kind of web content. And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games.

    New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.

    Steve Jobs
    April, 2010

  12. #112

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Quote Originally Posted by theonlyone View Post
    Even though IDC did publish data that MS server market share is greater, there are much debate in whether the data is accurate. For example, many servers come pre-installed with MS server operating system but the users subsequently refresh it with Linux.
    Most market share 'reports' look at sales. In the server market where one of the major platforms is available free and fragmented across multiple 'vendors' the figures generally get skewed badly.

    If they just look at sales, probably over 50% or more Linux deployments don't get counted as their won't have been a 'sale', as something free like Debian, Ubuntu, etc was used instead of an 'enterprise' distribution like Suse or Redhat were a sale would have been booked.

    Apple could still go for a massive head shot - Macs are frowned upon in the 'corporate' world but exist in many 'art' departments as 'creative types' like their Macs. But if Adobe stop releasing new versions of their 'creative suite' which most of this graphics designers use, the artists will move to Windows and the corpotate Windows addicts will never let the Macs back in...

    On the other hand, Apple appears to make most of it's money out of 'consumer electronics' now and not computers. They have certainly dropped the ball on development of OSX while they forge off into ipod/iphone/ipad territory. Windows 7 seems to have well an truly caught up with the static OSX.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    No matter how Jobs slams Adobe, how he's a supporter of open standards, etc... One thing i see for sure, apple grab all the goodness & advantage from the open community, repackage them, polished it, make them closed sys & sell for for loads of money. What did apple return back to the community? Nothing sadly.

    OSx was from Unix or more accurately FreeBSD. Since its free, easy way out is to nip it & repackage, rebrand it & make it close then market it for loads of cash. Other eg, wud be their iPod touch UI, the iPad Library UI. How's such practice & culture of a company be good? Looking at how many top talented guy quit from PA Semi, i can already guess (besides the unhappy grants of stock options). Funny thing is, these guys went on to set up another company & was recently purchased by Google. I asked myself this question "Do i want to support a company that embrace such culture & promotes the big "I" all the time?". A simple question but not an easy answer.

    Dun get me wrong. I'm not trying to give a lecture on social ethics & moral. Anyone is free to choose what they want to buy & what they want to support. Its like those green campaign shops, u can choose to buy from The Body shop or ntuc.

    On the other hand, apple has indeed polished up their stuff & makes them easy to use & strong integration for both hardware & adoption. If there's really a compelling reason to get a mac now or near future, i probably will. Until then, i'm still using XP & soon Win7.
    Last edited by nightpiper; 3rd May 2010 at 12:54 AM.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Adobe fires back:
    This morning Apple posted some thoughts about Flash on their web site. The primary issue at hand is that Apple is choosing to block Adobe's widely used runtimes as well as a variety of technologies from other
    providers.
    Clearly, a lot of people are passionate about both Apple and Adobe and our technologies. We feel confident that were Apple and Adobe to work together as we are with a number of other partners, we could provide a terrific experience with Flash on the iPhone, iPad and iPod touch.
    However, as we posted last week, given the legal terms Apple has imposed on developers, we have already decided to shift our focus away from Apple's iPhone and iPad devices for both Flash Player and AIR. We are working to bring Flash Player and AIR to all the other major participants in the mobile ecosystem, including Google, RIM, Palm (soon to be HP), Microsoft, Nokia and others.
    We look forward to delivering Flash Player 10.1 for Android smartphones as a public preview at Google I/O in May, and then a general release in June. From that point on, an ever increasing number and variety of powerful, Flash-enabled devices will be arriving which we hope will provide a great landscape of choice.
    from http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations...g_forward.html

  15. #115

    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    interesting article regarding Apple shutting out 3rd party programming solutions for iPhone platform:

    An antitrust app: Apple may be in the eye of regulatory storm

    dunno what will come of that...
    Last edited by theRBK; 4th May 2010 at 10:38 AM.

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    iPhone supports javascript? hmm.. How come I access some website and it says "java support not enabled"?

    Like Singpass & internet banking etc.. possible to access via iPhone?

    Quote Originally Posted by theonlyone View Post
    Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript


    ...

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    iPhone supports javascript? hmm.. How come I access some website and it says "java support not enabled"?

    Like Singpass & internet banking etc.. possible to access via iPhone?
    JavaScript and Java is totally different thing.

    For Internet Banking, OCBC, POSB, DBS has Internet Banking app which you can do basic banking

    http://www.mobinauts.com/topic/11109...ve-iphone-app/
    Last edited by adorable; 4th May 2010 at 12:01 PM.
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  18. #118
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    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    I'm aware that POSB and DBS have the Apps. But OCBC & UOB.....? I did a search on the App store and there is no results for OCBC..

    How about CPF, other gov website etc..? Any way to access them? since the Singpass requires Java I guess..


    Quote Originally Posted by adorable View Post
    JavaScript and Java is totally different thing.

    For Internet Banking, OCBC, POSB, DBS has Internet Banking app which you can do basic banking

    http://www.mobinauts.com/topic/11109...ve-iphone-app/

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    I'm aware that POSB and DBS have the Apps. But OCBC & UOB.....? I did a search on the App store and there is no results for OCBC..

    How about CPF, other gov website etc..? Any way to access them? since the Singpass requires Java I guess..
    OCBC iphone app
    http://itunes.apple.com/sg/app/ocbc-...292506828?mt=8
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  20. #120
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    Default Re: Adobe/Apple Relationship Takes A Turn For The Worst

    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 10th May 2010 at 02:20 AM.
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