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Thread: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    I am sorry to think otherwise though guys...

    In professional level, there are not many out there that have time and the crucial thing is, what qualification does one need to be admitted? Working as a full time photographer for a company is very different from as a full time photographer who run their own business.

    As a professional photographer, I don't think there is a need to single anyone out and the idea is to help the up and coming photographer to be a "responsible and ethical" professional photographer in the future.

    I am sure the pressure that many pro here feel is from the "irresponsible and unethical" operator... not really feel pressure from other upcoming pro.

    What I feel personally is that, most, like to "benefit" from rather than "giving" to the community of professional photography... The fact that, the more one "give", the more one will "learn" (not equal to "receive").

    So the question here is, how much one will give?

    Sorry to be on the other side but just don't see how it can be done...

    Hart
    yes i agree with bro Hart has mentioned...

    by the way.. creating a forum is easy, but as time goes, maintaining it, will be a very huge tough job... considering more ppl joining, uploading tons of photos (if u guys considering sharing of photos to see).

  2. #22
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    I'm thinking of using existing CS platform, but have a restricted area just for the pros and aspiring pros, they have a unique member title, they can hang out at any areas like the Kopitiam for TKSS, or B&S to off load gears, etc..

    the most simplest way to do is just turn the The Photo Biz into restricted forum, appoint a few pros or let some pros to volunteer to be moderators.

    as such, with minimum resource to set up, and if we have enough pros members here, we can have more advertisers of serving professionals mainly to help to maintain this forum.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  3. #23
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    I am sorry to think otherwise though guys...

    In professional level, there are not many out there that have time and the crucial thing is, what qualification does one need to be admitted? Working as a full time photographer for a company is very different from as a full time photographer who run their own business.

    As a professional photographer, I don't think there is a need to single anyone out and the idea is to help the up and coming photographer to be a "responsible and ethical" professional photographer in the future.

    I am sure the pressure that many pro here feel is from the "irresponsible and unethical" operator... not really feel pressure from other upcoming pro.

    What I feel personally is that, most, like to "benefit" from rather than "giving" to the community of professional photography... The fact that, the more one "give", the more one will "learn" (not equal to "receive").

    So the question here is, how much one will give?

    Sorry to be on the other side but just don't see how it can be done...

    Hart
    Hi Hart, agreed with you that "blessed are the one who gives".

    we will share if we know each other better, but we can't wait till we meet each others face to face than we get to know each other better..

    so everybody has to come together with a open heart, of course don't expect we able to pour out everything right in the beginning, so at least we should start somewhere.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  4. #24

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I'm thinking of using existing CS platform, but have a restricted area just for the pros and aspiring pros, they have a unique member title, they can hang out at any areas like the Kopitiam for TKSS, or B&S to off load gears, etc..

    the most simplest way to do is just turn the The Photo Biz into restricted forum, appoint a few pros or let some pros to volunteer to be moderators.

    as such, with minimum resource to set up, and if we have enough pros members here, we can have more advertisers of serving professionals mainly to help to maintain this forum.
    ya... this is a good suggestion using this existing forum to convert.... but will the owner of CS allow us to do it? maybe only by offering to pay to register as exclusive member will be able to convince the owner.

    then back to main issue... how do we know who is the real and who is the fake..

  5. #25

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    I am sorry to think otherwise though guys...

    In professional level, there are not many out there that have time and the crucial thing is, what qualification does one need to be admitted? Working as a full time photographer for a company is very different from as a full time photographer who run their own business.

    As a professional photographer, I don't think there is a need to single anyone out and the idea is to help the up and coming photographer to be a "responsible and ethical" professional photographer in the future.

    I am sure the pressure that many pro here feel is from the "irresponsible and unethical" operator... not really feel pressure from other upcoming pro.

    What I feel personally is that, most, like to "benefit" from rather than "giving" to the community of professional photography... The fact that, the more one "give", the more one will "learn" (not equal to "receive").

    So the question here is, how much one will give?

    Sorry to be on the other side but just don't see how it can be done...

    Hart
    hart it's funny you should say this because it's actually because I was inspired to think about this subject from the time you put up your blog and shared tips on the business of photography. I thought that was a very good read.

    Yes it's not easy to upkeep a forum of course but I think we shouldn't work about that at the start. It might be useful to ask a pool of members to contribute a thread/experience within 2 months of signing up like examples of successful ways of dealing with clients/negotiating better fees or certain items which clients seem more willing to pay for and less willing to pay for on a quotation ) or also possible is to just share some interesting stories dealing with certain clients.

    I think that we can learn a lot from each other and if we just have the commitment from a core group of people first to contribute content and a commitment from people to share more experiences too that will be good.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    I want to share one problem I face that made me think about this.
    I consistently meet clients who try to play off the fear of losing a job to another

    I think as we are in a sense competitors it is inevitable that there will be some apprehension about sharing information, however another way to think about this is that being able to share information will allow us to find ways to actually grow the market a bit by finding good ways of convincing clients to use more photography.

    It is a tricky balance but I hope it's possible, because I have learnt a lot from simple simple nuggets of information shared by people here in the past (something as straightforward as what is the ballpark pricing for different sorts of jobs, as shared by wesley in an old post) and I hope to be able to learn and share from others.

    So my idea: start small, ensure face-to-face meeting of each registrant(yes it's tedious but I think this is actually very important), ensure that people contribute a writeup/bio at the start, and have everyone registered under their name+company for absolute transparency.

    I would like to suggest that initial registration be based on an invite/recommendation system first. So there will be my circle of photographer friends who I can trust to join, and from there I can ask for them to recommend 2 other photographers, and so on and so forth.
    Last edited by mattlock; 10th April 2010 at 10:22 AM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    So my idea: start small, ensure face-to-face meeting of each registrant(yes it's tedious but I think this is actually very important), ensure that people contribute a writeup/bio at the start, and have everyone registered under their name+company for absolute transparency.

    I would like to suggest that initial registration be based on an invite/recommendation system first. So there will be my circle of photographer friends who I can trust to join, and from there I can ask for them to recommend 2 other photographers, and so on and so forth.
    bro, from your suggestion can i say therefore those working freelance will not be able to join? cause they wont be having a company name under them.

    meeting face to face will be a tough job to arrange.. coz not everytime members will be free to meet up even for a small group of ppls... anyway it got to start someday somewhere......

    maybe just maybe should have a client forum.. so client can voice out their point of view toos..

  8. #28

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    hart it's funny you should say this because it's actually because I was inspired to think about this subject from the time you put up your blog and shared tips on the business of photography. I thought that was a very good read.

    Yes it's not easy to upkeep a forum of course but I think we shouldn't work about that at the start. It might be useful to ask a pool of members to contribute a thread/experience within 2 months of signing up like examples of successful ways of dealing with clients/negotiating better fees or certain items which clients seem more willing to pay for and less willing to pay for on a quotation ) or also possible is to just share some interesting stories dealing with certain clients.

    I think that we can learn a lot from each other and if we just have the commitment from a core group of people first to contribute content and a commitment from people to share more experiences too that will be good.
    Hi,

    I believe in Sharing but I don't believe in having exclusivity for certain people. So What I can suggest that, people as individual share the topic that they want to share for the benefit of the community.

    Having an exclusivity and single out some might appear to be "controlling" and I would rather see an open discussion.

    Sure, some people just come and "take" and leave... sharing is two way street so by all means share what you know.

    By sharing my knowledge, I will gain more insight on what I am sharing and sometimes learn about new thing as I type.

    The more you give, the more you learn....

    Sometimes people are fed up with giving as they hope for a return... so my thought is to just give and learn at the same time but not expecting any return.

    The more one expect from their actions, the more they will feel dissapointed by it.

    For me, I just do it and let the other decide what they want to do... funny though, many enjoy the reading but no one actually tell me what they want to learn more so I am kinda stuck with what i can write for their benefit.

    Regards,

    Hart

  9. #29

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    aspiring photographers should welcome to join too, however, how are we determine the status of a professional in the first place?
    that's the problem when u try to segregate people. U get headaches like these. Karma?

  10. #30

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post

    I believe in Sharing but I don't believe in having exclusivity for certain people.
    Yea, next thing u know there will be a 2 sub-forums in CS,

    Good Photographers Talk and Bad Photographers Chat.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Having an exclusivity and single out some might appear to be "controlling" and I would rather see an open discussion.
    My friend, the reason they are jumping up and down with the idea is becos they dun wan to share info with the non-pros! That's not controlling. That's segregation of the uppest level, right there, my friend.

  12. #32
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    that's the problem when u try to segregate people. U get headaches like these. Karma?
    I don't quite understand what you said.
    and I don't intend to do these as I think I'm not capable enough, hence asking the question.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I don't quite understand what you said.
    and I don't intend to do these as I think I'm not capable enough, hence asking the question.
    u answered your own question there. U can't determine who is a pro and who is not but u want to set up a forum for pros only? U r indeed not capable.

  14. #34
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    u answered your own question there. U can't determine who is a pro and who is not but u want to set up a forum for pros only? U r indeed not capable.
    Yes, I'm not capable, each day I learn something new from many good people here, by sharing and learning with each others.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  15. #35

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    Yes, I'm not capable, each day
    the only thing u should learn is not to segregate people in a forum (or act like u support it). Just becos u make a living from shooting doesn't grant u the right to an exclusive sub-section in a public photo forum filled with thousands of hobbyist who probably know more than u and me.

    unless of cos the admin are for it( which says a lot about them either way they choose), i dun see how " I learn something new from many good people here, by sharing and learning with each others." fits into the spirit of having a forum ONLY for "people who make money from shooting".
    Last edited by lancey; 13th April 2010 at 12:21 PM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    maybe u can do it out of CS...and have fun sharing the lobangs ;0

  17. #37

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    the only thing u should learn is not to segregate people in a forum (or act like u support it). Just becos u make a living from shooting doesn't grant u the right to an exclusive sub-section in a public photo forum filled with thousands of hobbyist who probably know more than u and me.

    unless of cos the admin are for it( which says a lot about them either way they choose), i dun see how " I learn something new from many good people here, by sharing and learning with each others." fits into the spirit of having a forum ONLY for "people who make money from shooting".

    I don't really see why you're being so aggressive?
    There's a reason why I suggested starting a separate forum.
    I love CS but it's not a catch-all for all communities of people.

    And please, you should know that the business of photography is a totally different beast from the love of photography. It's one part of the photography field that's not covered/shared enough and it would be great to have more sharing of that element: business knowledge/experiences

  18. #38

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    let me sum it up for u: the so called pros dun like to mix with the non-pros. U need a lock and key section for selective members to share trade secrets, becos many in the trade arent talking enuff in this public section....due to, guess what? they dun like to mix with the non-pros....what makes u think they would mix with u? A redundant suggestion at best.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    let me sum it up for u: the so called pros dun like to mix with the non-pros. U need a lock and key section for selective members to share trade secrets, becos many in the trade arent talking enuff in this public section....due to, guess what? they dun like to mix with the non-pros....what makes u think they would mix with u? A redundant suggestion at best.
    you do realise that most of the people pushing for this are the ones who are quite regular everywhere on cs, right?

    in other words, if your claims that pros don't like to mix with non-pros stand true, that means that the ones you are attacking here are the ones who like to mix with non-pros.

    well, at least they are much more easily found everywhere than you.. the irony.
    Last edited by night86mare; 14th April 2010 at 01:41 AM.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Creating a separate Professional Singaporean photographers forum?

    I am no pro here but just a suggestion if want to setup a pro-forum.

    1. Produce your business name and reg number (doesn't matter if $1 company)

    2. Attached face and nickname so everyone know who you are and not hide behind a nickname and post non-constuctive comments.

    3. Must be active posting and if more than X months no post will need to reapply

    4. Post latest works (subjective)

    hope it helps.

    Juzgood

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