View Poll Results: Do you agree on the building of a casino on Sentosa?

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  • Yes

    30 43.48%
  • No

    28 40.58%
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Thread: Casino on Sentosa

  1. #21

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    wondering what so big deal about open or not? r u kids then u r restricted to go, if u r adult, be responsible on what u r doing.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    The government let a casino built here in Sydney many years ago. Everything I've heard about it or read about it is bad:

    1. Parents addicted to gambling lock their kids inside the cars to the extent that they almost die of heat exhaustion. Obviously the parents absorbed with gambling have forgotten the kids outside.

    2. Young mothers who are left in Sydney while the husbands are working or running business in Asia are forced into prostitution because of gambling losses

    3. Retired elderly people lose their hard-earned savings in casino because they have little else to while away their free time. Worse is that they've worked in tough and unpleasant jobs for many years to save for the retirement.

    4. People lose their homes because of gambling.

    5. People lose their business because of gambling.

    6. A friend loses A$20,000 to the casino.

    7. Someone committed suicide in casino toilet.

    It would be a controversial one to build one in Santosa.

    Well, I think moderation and self-control is the most important thing to remember. Anything, no matter how good it seems, if taken to the extremeties will always have a bad ending. The same thing with gambling. If a person is already a die-hard gambler by nature, there is no way to stop him from burning his money somewhere else (Genting, Vegas, 4D or his even his neighbor).

    Cheers

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    The government let a casino built here in Sydney many years ago. Everything I've heard about it or read about it is bad:

    1. Parents addicted to gambling lock their kids inside the cars to the extent that they almost die of heat exhaustion. Obviously the parents absorbed with gambling have forgotten the kids outside.

    2. Young mothers who are left in Sydney while the husbands are working or running business in Asia are forced into prostitution because of gambling losses

    3. Retired elderly people lose their hard-earned savings in casino because they have little else to while away their free time. Worse is that they've worked in tough and unpleasant jobs for many years to save for the retirement.

    4. People lose their homes because of gambling.

    5. People lose their business because of gambling.

    6. A friend loses A$20,000 to the casino.

    7. Someone committed suicide in casino toilet.

    It would be a controversial one to build one in Santosa.
    what prevent those person potential of doing the above from doing it in Genting?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekoswara
    Well, I think moderation and self-control is the most important thing to remember. Anything, no matter how good it seems, if taken to the extremeties will always have a bad ending. The same thing with gambling. If a person is already a die-hard gambler by nature, there is no way to stop him from burning his money somewhere else (Genting, Vegas, 4D or his even his neighbor).

    Cheers
    Moderation and self control is indeed important, but I doubt most people (myself included) can maintain a clear head when the high of winning or frustration of losing takes control of the mind. The difference I see between gambling in casinos and other forms of gambling like 4D, Toto etc is that the outcome is almost immediate, ie after a minute or seconds after placing the bet, you will know if you win or lose. That's when the blind hope of recouping losses, or belief that one is on a winning streak, takes over rational thinking.

    For those who spend their money in Genting or other countries' casinos, it's not all the time that they visit them, and the hassle of travelling that deters the majority. But with a casino in our own backyard, the convenience might just ruin more people.

    Then again, by discriminating against locals who are not well off, yet allowing any foreign Tom, Dick or Harry in, stinks of double standards. And such discriminatory practice may not hold for long. Might as well forgo the tax revenues than to introduce another social ill.

  5. #25
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    I guess it would soon result in an uproar if restriction to local singaporean were to be applied...

  6. #26
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lingfoo
    what prevent those person potential of doing the above from doing it in Genting?
    It's obvious that by bringing casino home to Santosa would make casino gambling more accessible, the problem more epidemic and an enticement to gambling addiction to a new generation of gamblers or those who are not into gambling yet. You need to catch a coach to Genting or fly to KL and a taxi ride.

    Initially here we have free casino buses, free food and drink coupons, free parking (so much so that a friend permenently parked his second car there instead of street parking), the classy deco, lightings and comfortable amenities including the huge saltwater aquariums make people want to hang around the casino. It's very different from next door's mahjong game on a kitchen table.

    Read about the casino was giving counselling service to compulsive gamblers.
    There are the strong ones and the week ones in our communtity. The friend who has lost $20,000 to casino still believes that if you take gambling as a science and study it you could regularly come out as a winner. "Take $2,000 and follow me." is what he often says.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    It's obvious that by bringing casino home to Santosa would make casino gambling more accessible, the problem more epidemic and an enticement to gambling addiction to a new generation of gamblers or those who are not into gambling yet. You need to catch a coach to Genting or fly to KL and a taxi ride.

    Initially here we have free casino buses, free food and drink coupons, free parking (so much so that a friend permenently parked his second car there instead of street parking), the classy deco, lightings and comfortable amenities including the huge saltwater aquariums make people want to hang around the casino. It's very different from next door's mahjong game on a kitchen table.

    Read about the casino was giving counselling service to compulsive gamblers.
    There are the strong ones and the week ones in our communtity. The friend who has lost $20,000 to casino still believes that if you take gambling as a science and study it you could regularly come out as a winner. "Take $2,000 and follow me." is what he often says.

    Then there is online-gambling. It's even more accessible than having a casino next door. If the decor is an issue, then Iam sure there are a lot of bright minded folks out there who would have already thought out of starting a Lan-shop with a casino style decor. I know of an illegal bookie friend (not living or operating in Singapore) whose daily revenue on a good day could easily buy the most affluent penthouse in Orchard Road. And he's just a phone call away.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Enough of the horror stories of compulsive gambling. Here's a happy news.

    Have any of you guys heard of the story of a photographer walking into Genting with $50 and coming out with enough winnings to buy the lastest 11.1MP DSLR and a host of sexy L lenses and the change to hire the most gorgeous models in Singapore?

    Now this is the chance for us poor manual camera owners to make it to the 11.1MP DSRL elite the easy way.
    Last edited by Sion; 28th March 2004 at 12:55 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    Enough of the horror stories of compulsive gambling. Here's a happy news.

    Have any of you guys heard of the story of a photographer walking into Genting with $50 and coming out with enough winnings to buy the lastest 11.1MP DSLR and a host of sexy L lenses and the change to hire the most gorgeous models in Singapore?

    Now this is the chance for us poor manual camera owners to make it to the 11.1MP DSRL elite the easy way.
    Which one do you think is more likely, losing your pants off or making it big in the casino?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by justarius
    Which one do you think is more likely, losing your pants off or making it big in the casino?
    Of course losing your pants off lah...

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by yling
    IMHO, i think it's a bit of a stretch putting gambling in the same class as prostitution, and esp drugs. and like i said, i'm in favour of restriction at least in the beginning. we're making money off the tourists, while protecting our society (to some extent lah) from social ills.

    about the letting in the richer locals and not letting in other locals - i agree, that's a bit weird. heh. i'm not sure if the govt has given good enough reasons for treating us unequally.

    but about letting in foreign "janitors" etc, i don't much care. maybe slightly insulting, but that's only if you're sensitive, i guess. on principle, there's no objection coz the whole idea is to make as much money off the tourists as possible. so i say, let in the "janitors"! as long as they come and spend money, i don't mind that they are allowed to enter and i'm not. *wink*
    Why is it a stretch ? Gambling destroy lives just as drugs and prostition do. Its addictive like drugs. The fact that casinos are posh and high profile does not change this fact.

    If making money out of tourist at the expense of making our own citizens 2nd class is acceptable, then we have to ask ourselves what kind of society we have become, and what kind of signal we are sending to our youngsters. Would this not be like in olden times in China when the British establishments would have the signs "No Dogs and Chinamen allowed". The Chinese were 2nd class in their own countries by virtue of their skin color. We would be 2nd class by virtue of our nationality. Is that not disgraceful ?

    I think the issue is larger than simply "gambling is bad", and "making money out of tourists is ok". Its about being treated with disrespect just because you are a Singaporean and are "of a certain class".

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by A70
    Of course losing your pants off lah...
    Bring a suitcase of spare pants with you to Casitosa (Casino Santosa).

  13. #33

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    the real reason to restrain "the poor" from using the facility is simple. when comes to gambling they contribute lesser than the "millionaires" and cause cuse social problems. after all the, only the govt gains.

  14. #34

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    Go build the Casino elsewhere.
    Not in Sentosa, not in Singapore.

    Singapore wants to be a "hub" of everything...airport, seaport, education, technology, health, sciences...now casino...did they seriously consider the social repercussions that come with building a Casino on Singapore land?

    Of course they did, with all the economic scholars up there...sigh...

    This is not playing SimCity leh...maybe they think the Police Force too 'eng'; want to build casino to stimulate crime activity...

    My take:

  15. #35
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    whether they build casino @ sentosa or not...
    That's make no different from those die hard casino fan.

    For those don't go to Genting, they still can go to the casino ship @ the international sea. meal FOC...
    But instead of gamble is RM, now u gamble in S$.

    Went there once, cannot stand...
    1st, I got sea-sick
    2nd, take it too many 2nd hand smoke.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by A70
    Of course losing your pants off lah...

    Maybe losing more than just the pants.... plus the backside

  17. #37
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    IMHO, i think a casino is a good idea but there must be some checks to avoid too much social ills.

    Casino attracts tourist income, creates jobs, reduces local gambling $$ outflow, ensure that gambling money flows to garment instead of to gambling dens or foreign operators.

    Social ills are here to stay no matter if it is underground or legal. Prostitution is a social ill but is still legal in Geylang. Betting (another kind of gambling including stock market gambling) is also legal. If you dont legalise it (with some controls) people will still find ways of doing it in the underground market or elsewhere. Instead of just letting the underground market operate and sending the mata to catch them, might as well legalise it with controls and collect tax money from the activities.

    Maybe the controls can be like a membership where u need to apply and meet some criteria (like earning a certain income or having a rich husband) and then u can bet a certain amount of money (like credit limit for credit card) and for foreign passport holders, they can go in freely. Like that can make sure only those that are able to pay more 'Tax' can contribute more to singapore's coffer.
    Last edited by DennisLee; 29th March 2004 at 12:48 PM.

  18. #38

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    So just because we do not want the people at the underground to get all the money, we should bring them up to "on ground" and control them?

    Yeah, much like the Needle Park... Checks or no checks, once this casino is built there will be no turning back.

    Is the lure of revenue from the casino so great that the government, or the society as a whole, is willing to tolerate whatever social ills it will bring? I feel it is unjustified even if the money is used to build the country...God knows how the money was made...

    If you want to restrict only such that high-income Singaporeans and tourists can enter the casino...people will cry foul that the government is setting double-standards and promoting discrimination...if you open it "free for all", then we probably will see more cases of loan sharks and suicides...
    Last edited by Ah Pao; 29th March 2004 at 02:38 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ah Pao
    So just because we do not want the people at the underground to get all the money, we should bring them up to "on ground" and control them?
    Isn't that a great idea? U know that prostitution is evil. If left to the underground, who knows how much faster aids will spread, and how those prostitutes will suffer. By legalising and monitoring the sector (providing health check on the prostitutes etc) wouldnt the govt have made it safer for the society and the night workers? Vices will always be around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ah Pao
    Is the lure of revenue from the casino so great that the government, or the society as a whole, is willing to tolerate whatever social ills it will bring? I feel it is unjustified even if the money is used to build the country...God knows how the money was made...
    My opinion is that for die-hard gamblers, they always know where to look for gambling opportunities. If you prevent them from gambling in singapore, they will go elsewhere for it, like the cruise ship or Genting. Most people would probably have control over their gambling activities since they are already Adult liao. The rest may just be die-hard gamblers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ah Pao
    If you want to restrict only such that high-income Singaporeans and tourists can enter the casino...people will cry foul that the government is setting double-standards and promoting discrimination...if you open it "free for all", then we probably will see more cases of loan sharks and suicides...
    Isn't malaysia doing a good job on this? If i am not wrong, Muslim are not allow to play in the casino. If the garmet is transparent in the objective, i'm sure the people will understand. Why isn't people crying foul over the huge tax we have on cigeratte? Or that you need to earn at least 30K to qualify for a credit card?
    Last edited by DennisLee; 29th March 2004 at 03:13 PM.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisLee
    Isn't that a great idea? U know that prostitution is evil. If left to the underground, who knows how much faster aids will spread, and how those prostitutes will suffer. By legalising and monitoring the sector (providing health check on the prostitutes etc) wouldnt the govt have made it safer for the society and the night workers? Vices will always be around.

    My opinion is that for die-hard gamblers, they always know where to look for gambling opportunities. If you prevent them from gambling in singapore, they will go elsewhere for it, like the cruise ship or Genting. Most people would probably have control over their gambling activities since they are already Adult liao. The rest may just be die-hard gamblers.


    Isn't malaysia doing a good job on this? If i am not wrong, Muslim are not allow to play in the casino. If the garmet is transparent in the objective, i'm sure the people will understand. Why isn't people crying foul over the huge tax we have on cigeratte? Or that you need to earn at least 30K to qualify for a credit card?
    You argue, I argue = no conclusion. Your heading east, and I'm heading west. You have your POVs, and I respect that.

    BTW, Muslims are not allowed to gamble as a whole because their religion dictates so, and are enforced by an Islamic court. Then again, of course we do see a handful of Muslims gamble, smoke and eat pork. But that's beside the point.

    My take being that just because casinos can create great amount of revenue for the country and create jobs doesn't mean it outweights the social ills they bring. Don't ask me about cigarette taxes and credit card limits. I don't smoke.

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