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Thread: Bounce card/ omni bounce with 300D and 550ex

  1. #1

    Default Bounce card/ omni bounce with 300D and 550ex

    Dear fellow photographers,

    I have the above gear. few questions

    1. When using bounce card. not sure if i shld set anything on the 550ex to +eV or the E-TTL will auto set for me. Not sure how exactly the workflow is working too. Is it: during half press, the cam meters the subject, up to 7AF, fires a pre-flash(can we see this? i can see the preflash when 300D fires the inbuild flash, but haven't notice the pre flash from the 550ex), ETTL tells 550ex how much flash to fire, press shutter fully, shutter opens, flash fires. shutter close etc....

    I tried super underexposing the camera's meter, in M mode, set to 1/60, F6.3, ISO100 in my room FULLY DARK. took a shot, my whole room lid up like the ceiling lights were on. damn amazing. so I dun need a 'fast' lens to shoot low light situations if I have a flash....?

    and when tilting the flash head upwards, there's no reading of the subject distance on the 550ex etc, so how do I know if the distance is too far etc??

    2. Omnibounce, same questions. same set up, the effect wasn't as good as the bounce card IMO.


    I know i shld go read the 550ex manual cover to cover many times, just haven't got to do it yet.

  2. #2
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    I dun use Canon but as for the bounce card, just some things I noticed when I was struggling with it... still struggling with it...

    1) Usually no need to set flash compensation or exposure compensation unless you deliberately want to over/underexpose. The E-TTL metering system will automatically fire the flash longer to compensate in the drop in power due to the bouncing. But it means your flash batteries die a lot faster if every flash shot is bounced off the card or ceiling or using Omnibounce.

    I dun know about the pre-flash part but my guess is that with the 550EX, the AF illuminator built-in (if there is one) will do the work of the pre-flash.

    As for the room lit up like the ceiling lights were on.... well I suppose u are referring to bedroom, the space is actually quite small and the flash coverage for the 550EX is very far actually... it is a very powerful flash for a hotshoe mounted type I guess... as for the fast lens part, usually it is needed if u want to shoot without the flash. Then u need a large aperture so that the shutter speed is handholdable otherwise u get very shaky pictures.

    2) I agree that Omnibounce effect not as good as bounce card. But I suppose your mileage differs according to the way you shoot. If u actually bounce the flash off the ceiling, the Omnibounce might give a better pic than just plain bouncing the entire flash output off the ceiling since it is supposed to split the flash output into 2 beams and light the subject evenly from the front and the top. But for direct flash shots, I like the bounce card as it softens the light quite a lot... can use larger card and more matte material for an even softer look...

    Hope this helps. Please correct my inaccurate statements.... Thanks!

  3. #3

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    Hi, to add to what TME had said.... just my $0.02



    Quote Originally Posted by di0nysus
    1. When using bounce card. not sure if i shld set anything on the 550ex to +eV or the E-TTL will auto set for me. Not sure how exactly the workflow is working too. Is it: during half press, the cam meters the subject, up to 7AF, fires a pre-flash(can we see this? i can see the preflash when 300D fires the inbuild flash, but haven't notice the pre flash from the 550ex), ETTL tells 550ex how much flash to fire, press shutter fully, shutter opens, flash fires. shutter close etc....
    In normal situation, E-TTL should does the work for you, so no worry.

    Quote from http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

    - When the shutter release is pressed halfway the current ambient light levels are metered by the camera as usual. Shutter speed and aperture are set by the camera or user depending on the current mode - PIC (icon) modes or P, Av, Tv or M.

    - When the shutter release is pressed all the way the flash unit immediately fires a low-power preflash from the main flash tube. (ie: white light)

    - The reflected light from this preflash is analyzed by the same evaluative metering system that the camera uses for metering ambient light levels. The appropriate power output (ie: flash duration) of the flash is determined and stored in memory. The entire sensor area is evaluated and compared to the ambient metering, and the area around the active focus point is emphasized. If you are in manual focus mode then either the central focus point or averaged metering is used.

    - If the photo is being taken under bright lighting conditions (10 EV or brighter), auto fill reduction is applied (unless it has been disabled by a custom function, as is possible on some bodies) and the flash output is decreased by anywhere from 0.5 to 2 stops. However, the E-TTL auto fill reduction algorithm has never been published to my knowledge, so nobody outside Canon knows exactly how it works.

    - The mirror flips up and the shutter opens, exposing the film - or sensor chip if itís a digital camera.

    - The flash tube is then fired at the previously determined power level to illuminate the scene. Start time of the flash burst depends on whether first or second curtain sync has been set. The OTF sensor in the camera, if present, is not used in E-TTL mode.

    - The shutter stays open for the full duration of the shutter speed time.

    - The mirror flips down and the shutter closes. If the flash unit has a flash exposure confirmation light and if the flash metering was deemed adequate then the light glows.



    Quote Originally Posted by di0nysus
    I tried super underexposing the camera's meter, in M mode, set to 1/60, F6.3, ISO100 in my room FULLY DARK. took a shot, my whole room lid up like the ceiling lights were on. damn amazing. so I dun need a 'fast' lens to shoot low light situations if I have a flash....?


    and when tilting the flash head upwards, there's no reading of the subject distance on the 550ex etc, so how do I know if the distance is too far etc??

    2. Omnibounce, same questions. same set up, the effect wasn't as good as the bounce card IMO.

    Distance wise, when you use bouce flash, you dun normally expect the subject to be far away... so 2-3 meter is fine for average ceiling height. You got to experiment the flash setting for further distance subject...



    Quote Originally Posted by di0nysus
    I know i shld go read the 550ex manual cover to cover many times, just haven't got to do it yet.
    Yes... READ the manual... it provides you with all basic information you need to know to operate it and it is useful!!!

  4. #4
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    Erm, i got a question to add on. After half-pressing the shutter, the ETTL will determine the flash power, or is the flash power actually determined the moment before the shutter opens? I was wondering coz I usually like to focus on a subject and then recompose the shot. Does this change the flash output in anyway?

    Another thing is how do we actually know even if the max flash output is enough to light up the scene? For instance, taking a shot at iso 100, f8 with max power flash might not be even enough to properly expose the scene rite? For such cases, if we still want to maintain the aperture, how do we actually gauge the correct iso to use?

  5. #5

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    from http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index.html

    The usual E-TTL sequence of operations, not counting the optional flash exposure lock (FEL) feature or wireless operation, is as follows:

    When the shutter release is pressed halfway the current ambient light levels are metered by the camera as usual. Shutter speed and aperture are set by the camera or user depending on the current mode - PIC (icon) modes or P, Av, Tv or M.

    When the shutter release is pressed all the way the flash unit immediately fires a low-power preflash from the main flash tube. (ie: white light)

    The reflected light from this preflash is analyzed by the same evaluative metering system that the camera uses for metering ambient light levels. The appropriate power output (ie: flash duration) of the flash is determined and stored in memory. The entire sensor area is evaluated and compared to the ambient metering, and the area around the active focus point is emphasized. If you are in manual focus mode then either the central focus point or averaged metering is used.

    If the photo is being taken under bright lighting conditions (10 EV or brighter), auto fill reduction is applied (unless it has been disabled by a custom function, as is possible on some bodies) and the flash output is decreased by anywhere from 0.5 to 2 stops. However, the E-TTL auto fill reduction algorithm has never been published to my knowledge, so nobody outside Canon knows exactly how it works.

    The mirror flips up and the shutter opens, exposing the film - or sensor chip if itís a digital camera.

    The flash tube is then fired at the previously determined power level to illuminate the scene. Start time of the flash burst depends on whether first or second curtain sync has been set. The OTF sensor in the camera, if present, is not used in E-TTL mode.

    The shutter stays open for the full duration of the shutter speed time.

    The mirror flips down and the shutter closes. If the flash unit has a flash exposure confirmation light and if the flash metering was deemed adequate then the light glows.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by di0nysus
    I tried super underexposing the camera's meter, in M mode, set to 1/60, F6.3, ISO100 in my room FULLY DARK. took a shot, my whole room lid up like the ceiling lights were on. damn amazing. so I dun need a 'fast' lens to shoot low light situations if I have a flash....?
    that 550EX is a darn powerful flash... plus u are in your room with lots of wall and ceiling space to bounce the flash off... try that in open space and you will note the difference.

    then the problem will come the harsh shadows resulting from flash usage. to obtain natural looking lighting, the photographer must learn to balance the correct amount of ambient lighting and flash power output.

  7. #7

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    Any ideas if I could use rechargable batt for flash?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by sumball
    Any ideas if I could use rechargable batt for flash?
    er... why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sumball
    Any ideas if I could use rechargable batt for flash?
    why not?

    this is the main reason for most of us having multiple sets of AA nimh batteries...

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    you could also get the CP-E2 external battery pack for the 550EX if you want to speed up the recycle time CP-E2 uses 6 AA batteries... more reasons to get multiple sets of AA NiMHs (mine's mainly Sanyo 2100 and 2300's from EastGear)

  11. #11
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    NiMH can right but not Ni-Cd right? Cos the voltage for NiMH is 1.5V but for Ni-Cd is only 1.2V right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TME
    NiMH can right but not Ni-Cd right? Cos the voltage for NiMH is 1.5V but for Ni-Cd is only 1.2V right?
    both are of the same voltage. no difference, other than NiMH can store more power compared to NiCd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sehsuan
    both are of the same voltage. no difference, other than NiMH can store more power compared to NiCd.

    Hmm... same voltage means both are 1.2V.... does the flash require a certain minimum voltage to trigger? If it doesn't then Ni-Cd also can right? Cos all this while I've been using alkalines for the flash as I thought Ni-Cd 1.2V rechargeables do not work.... all along thought that NiMH are also 1.5V... what about the lithium batteries? I think so far only Energiser (not sure) has lithium rechargeables? Thanks!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by TME
    Hmm... same voltage means both are 1.2V.... does the flash require a certain minimum voltage to trigger? If it doesn't then Ni-Cd also can right? Cos all this while I've been using alkalines for the flash as I thought Ni-Cd 1.2V rechargeables do not work.... all along thought that NiMH are also 1.5V... what about the lithium batteries? I think so far only Energiser (not sure) has lithium rechargeables? Thanks!
    NiCds have all along been recommended for flash usage for many years as they provide the fastest recycling times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerstorer
    NiCds have all along been recommended for flash usage for many years as they provide the fastest recycling times.
    except their capacity is lower

    TME, lithium rechargeables, what do you recharge them with, anyway?

    my guess is the capacitors in the flash have to be charged to a minimum before the flash can fire, otherwise you'll get a teenyweeny glow across your flashtube that no one can see

  16. #16

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    Thanks for all the explanation and back to the question again, my sigma 500dg seems like doesnt accept a rechargable batt.

    It is alright if I load them with 4 alkaline batts but I cant even on the flash if I load it with 4 GP rechargable batt 1300 NiMh which I currently have.

    Any ideas? Should have brought it with me today and brign to SEED later...

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    probably your 1300mah's are near the end of their useful life cycle, or your charger's screwing the batteries, really.

  18. #18

    Default I dun think so..... :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by sehsuan
    probably your 1300mah's are near the end of their useful life cycle, or your charger's screwing the batteries, really.
    The 4 batts are brand new and just fully charged before I load them in... After I fail to on the flash, I try them out in other electronic devices, it works properly!

    Is there any reasons? lower voltage of the batts? Cannot be right since the manual did not mention abt this,.....

    Sigh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sumball
    The 4 batts are brand new and just fully charged before I load them in... After I fail to on the flash, I try them out in other electronic devices, it works properly!

    Is there any reasons? lower voltage of the batts? Cannot be right since the manual did not mention abt this,.....

    Sigh!
    what charger are you using? if one of the four batteries isn't fully charged, you may be mistaken by your current charger. btw, these are the same batteries i use for my oly 4040, 550EX, bicycle lights, CD player, shaver (!!!), alarm clock etc...


  20. #20
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    not bad I've quite a few sets too and I numbered each battery too.

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