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Thread: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

  1. #541

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  2. #542

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauche View Post
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by zh3ng View Post
    i will consolidate the list by this weekend.
    Thank q..

    Quote Originally Posted by simpleliving View Post
    wat u sponsor ?
    french caps ai mai?
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  4. #544

    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    ola butties!

    horsin visited me on site so i'll do the chanting again.....

    ---------------------------
    ╬Pachelbel in D .357cal

  5. #545

    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    ish a bored n tired thu afternoon
    i'm a big fan of musselman
    Last edited by juste_millieu; 18th March 2010 at 02:19 PM.

  6. #546

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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauche View Post
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    Member/Tangshooter jawzsg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    Good explaination!
    Scenario 2 sounds logical to me...
    that's an assumption with absolute measurement, in reality, the larger the format, the better the DOF ratio can be yield. DOF measurement is the relative measurement against subject distant originally in % value. Object out of the DOF range attribute to the background/foreground blurr also known as bokeh. The technical factor that affects the quality of the background blurr are

    1. Circle of Confusion - As larger format tends to have a higher COC tolerant, this gives a position where optical energy are better maximised comparatively, (optimizing this position will then have to depend on the quality of the sensor). In reverse, this high tolerant also maintains resolution in the blurr out region resulting in a smoother fading effect giving rise to what is called creamier bokeh. Hence your first opinion that FF sensor is able to render better bokeh is correct.

    2. Aperture - this is often overlook but the shape of the aperture does play a part in the presentation of bokeh. Generally, the rounder the better however it's a matter of preference e.g. the 50mm f/1.8 gives an interestin pentagon effect in the bokeh. Minolta adds a 2nd aperture in one of their bespoke lens, the legendary STF (which now Sony also produce) to vary the presentation of the bokeh. So it is said that if you can soften the edge of the aperture, the creamier effect can be achieve.

    3. Distances - these are less direct technical consideration but more to attaining the impact of the technical specification. e.g. subject to sensor pane distant., background to subject distant., and the ratio of the mentioned example.

    With lens, focal length, distants of subject/background ratio and aperture being constant, the larger format will still have a marginal advantage with regards to creamier bokeh quality based on their higher CoC tolerance.

    In real life comparison, the photographers shooting the same frame with the same lens and apperture i.e. both shooting head and shoulder shots for example, will create a more distinct difference as the distances now comes into play. This same lens focusing at different distance will have different DOF resultant values as each altered their focal point position against their Hyperfocal point.

    Below is the calculated DOF of a typical 50mm at f/2.8 on the selected format (sensor pane to subject distant 2m)

    D300 (1.92m - 2.09m) total 17cm
    D700 (1.9m - 2.12m) total 22cm

    I did not have my own calculator in this office comp, but found an online calculator for the above results. As you can see, the larger format provides a better DOF, but the difference in the CoC results in the creamier bokeh.

    Online DOF Calculator

    Happy exploring....
    Last edited by jawzsg; 18th March 2010 at 02:39 PM.
    651D90 Mk II cameller™ ...... "Ai Camel Mai ?"

  9. #549

    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by jawzsg View Post
    that's an assumption with absolute measurement, in reality, the larger the format, the better the DOF ratio can be yield. DOF measurement is the relative measurement against subject distant originally in % value. Object out of the DOF range attribute to the background/foreground blurr also known as bokeh. The technical factor that affects the quality of the background blurr are

    1. Circle of Confusion - As larger format tends to have a higher COC tolerant, this gives a position where optical energy are better maximised comparatively, (optimizing this position will then have to depend on the quality of the sensor). In reverse, this high tolerant also maintains resolution in the blurr out region resulting in a smoother fading effect giving rise to what is called creamier bokeh. Hence your first opinion that FF sensor is able to render better bokeh is correct.

    2. Aperture - this is often overlook but the shape of the aperture does play a part in the presentation of bokeh. Generally, the rounder the better however it's a matter of preference e.g. the 50mm f/1.8 gives an interestin pentagon effect in the bokeh. Minolta adds a 2nd aperture in one of their bespoke lens, the legendary STF (which now Sony also produce) to vary the presentation of the bokeh. So it is said that if you can soften the edge of the aperture, the creamier effect can be achieve.

    3. Distances - these are less direct technical consideration but more to attaining the impact of the technical specification. e.g. subject to sensor pane distant., background to subject distant., and the ratio of the mentioned example.

    With lens, focal length, distants of subject/background ratio and aperture being constant, the larger format will still have a marginal advantage with regards to creamier bokeh quality based on their higher CoC tolerance.

    In real life comparison, the photographers shooting the same frame with the same lens and apperture i.e. both shooting head and shoulder shots for example, will create a more distinct difference as the distances now comes into play. This same lens focusing at different distance will have different DOF resultant values as each altered their focal point position against their Hyperfocal point.

    Below is the calculated DOF of a typical 50mm at f/2.8 on the selected format (sensor pane to subject distant 2m)

    D300 (1.92m - 2.09m) total 17cm
    D700 (1.9m - 2.12m) total 22cm

    I did not have my own calculator in this office comp, but found an online calculator for the above results. As you can see, the larger format provides a better DOF, but the difference in the CoC results in the creamier bokeh.

    Online DOF Calculator

    Happy exploring....
    i lub camel
    but i read until i fall asleep riao... next time we meet up test test
    Last edited by juste_millieu; 18th March 2010 at 02:46 PM.

  10. #550
    Member/Tangshooter jawzsg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    P.S. for M/format calculation, a sensor such as the Mamiya 645 should have a CoC of 0.039 while larger pentacon would be in the region of 0.045

    651D90 Mk II cameller™ ...... "Ai Camel Mai ?"

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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by jawzsg View Post
    that's an assumption with absolute measurement, in reality, the larger the format, the better the DOF ratio can be yield. DOF measurement is the relative measurement against subject distant originally in % value. Object out of the DOF range attribute to the background/foreground blurr also known as bokeh. The technical factor that affects the quality of the background blurr are

    1. Circle of Confusion - As larger format tends to have a higher COC tolerant, this gives a position where optical energy are better maximised comparatively, (optimizing this position will then have to depend on the quality of the sensor). In reverse, this high tolerant also maintains resolution in the blurr out region resulting in a smoother fading effect giving rise to what is called creamier bokeh. Hence your first opinion that FF sensor is able to render better bokeh is correct.

    2. Aperture - this is often overlook but the shape of the aperture does play a part in the presentation of bokeh. Generally, the rounder the better however it's a matter of preference e.g. the 50mm f/1.8 gives an interestin pentagon effect in the bokeh. Minolta adds a 2nd aperture in one of their bespoke lens, the legendary STF (which now Sony also produce) to vary the presentation of the bokeh. So it is said that if you can soften the edge of the aperture, the creamier effect can be achieve.

    3. Distances - these are less direct technical consideration but more to attaining the impact of the technical specification. e.g. subject to sensor pane distant., background to subject distant., and the ratio of the mentioned example.

    With lens, focal length, distants of subject/background ratio and aperture being constant, the larger format will still have a marginal advantage with regards to creamier bokeh quality based on their higher CoC tolerance.

    In real life comparison, the photographers shooting the same frame with the same lens and apperture i.e. both shooting head and shoulder shots for example, will create a more distinct difference as the distances now comes into play. This same lens focusing at different distance will have different DOF resultant values as each altered their focal point position against their Hyperfocal point.

    Below is the calculated DOF of a typical 50mm at f/2.8 on the selected format (sensor pane to subject distant 2m)

    D300 (1.92m - 2.09m) total 17cm
    D700 (1.9m - 2.12m) total 22cm

    I did not have my own calculator in this office comp, but found an online calculator for the above results. As you can see, the larger format provides a better DOF, but the difference in the CoC results in the creamier bokeh.

    Online DOF Calculator

    Happy exploring....
    thanks PROF camel

  12. #552
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    heavy rain in city, i m so sreepy now
    fwah, so nice got sponsor for BBQ..

  13. #553
    Member/Tangshooter jawzsg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by lkkang View Post
    thanks PROF camel
    .. hwellkum bbbuttie... other consideration with regards to lens are their original designed consideration. Eg, a DX 50mm, FX 50mm and M/format 50mm of the same aperture will yield very different quality with regards to Lp/mm, mtf as well as bokeh quality.

    I don't have a M/format cameller...but what the FX lens does on a DX cameller, the M/format lens does it better on the FX cameller... moi ish hwill lub chiu renz dipz dipz.....
    651D90 Mk II cameller™ ...... "Ai Camel Mai ?"

  14. #554
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    camel buttie ish gotch herlord orb nolege loo shear tolay... moi ish ornerd loo ren prom heem.

  15. #555
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by kuantoh View Post
    camel buttie ish gotch herlord orb nolege loo shear tolay... moi ish ornerd loo ren prom heem.
    strange...when prof camel share knowledge, i understand what he is saying, but when he go to camel talk..i got lost again

  16. #556
    Senior Member StrifeYun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    haha..then if i use MF and shoot..F8 can become F4 mehz?? which i think many won't want oso right..

    u cannot really say a f2.8 bokeh or a f4 bokeh..only creaminess of bokeh..oof wise dx and ff still same on same aperture..

    but a good sharp lens that helps to make subject sharper oso gives perception of cream bokeh..
    hmmm so ppl with x1.6 crop use a f4 lens will become a f8 ? but but so oni a 1 series body can focus at f8 ... meaning ... HAHAHAHAAAHAHA
    Canon EOS "Luxury"
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  17. #557
    Member/Tangshooter jawzsg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by mayngbt View Post
    strange...when prof camel share knowledge, i understand what he is saying, but when he go to camel talk..i got lost again
    .. allooo bbbuttee...butz moi ish de more cute being her camel mah... ronger sey huan .....
    651D90 Mk II cameller™ ...... "Ai Camel Mai ?"

  18. #558

    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...



    i oni underwearstend hause camel one...
    ╬Pachelbel in D .357cal

  19. #559
    Member/Tangshooter jawzsg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by billycadiz View Post


    i oni underwearstend hause camel one...
    .. err...nose hworry bbbuttie.. hwee juz loo chantinkz kan riao... ......
    651D90 Mk II cameller™ ...... "Ai Camel Mai ?"

  20. #560

    Default Re: Tang Shooters LXXXIII - TCSS Thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by jawzsg View Post
    .. err...nose hworry bbbuttie.. hwee juz loo chantinkz kan riao... ......
    Yesh buttie... Master ah hee said one....

    Lets loo de shanztinks....

    ----------------
    ╬Pachelbel in D .357cal

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