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Thread: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

  1. #101
    Member whizzard's Avatar
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    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    i'm also surprised that i didn't know this, along with the 10,000 other people in my frequent flights on sq that have been taking photos happily during sq flights, with the air stewardesses and air stewards walking by.

    i have even gone to the back row where they do their things during flight time sometimes, bumped into them while taking pictures with dslr through the window there, no one said anything.

    i must be invisible!
    Teach me how to be invisible leh ...

    Actually, my course instructor did try to teach us how to blend and fit into a scene to be able to take photos of people around you without them paying you undue attention. Guess I am a slow learner .....

  2. #102

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by whizzard View Post
    I don't know how to put this across. After the "incident" and after he had handed me the piece of paper with his name on it as per my request, I couldn't sleep the entire flight and decided to watch the movies onboard for the entire flight until 7:00am.

    Now, if I were him, being a professional customer service provider with many years of experience to boot, surely I would realise that this passenger is a little upset. Since this passenger was awake throughout the 8-hour flight, I would have ample opportunities to exercise service recovery (no need to offer me free vouchers, etc, etc).

    If I were him, I would have approached the passenger, apologised that I had to prevent the passenger from taking photos onboard the plane as it is against company policy for phototaking (assuming this is true) and perhaps just crack a joke or two to diffuse the situation. Being a very experienced cabin crew who would probably have seen and handled more "severe" incidents than this and carried out many service recoveries before, he had a choice and he made his choice, probably aware of the consequences. Maybe it was his ego that prevented him from doing so, maybe not, who knows.

    I believe he has done his rationalisation and believed that he acted appropriately, in which case there wasn't much else he needed to do.

    Anyway, the reason I posted this thread is just to share my "newly discovered" knowledge that phototaking is not allowed onboard a SIA aircraft. Its interesting that the thread has morphed into many other mini topics and also interesting to see some of the characters in CS. But, that's not something I am complaining about since its something I would have been expected to anticipate when I decided to post the first message.
    well...something for everyone to ponder. the offence starts when you start snapping the aircraft interior and also the crew working in it. If you just wanna shoot the sunrise/sunsets, or anything outside for that matters...i thk its pretty much fine. And this rulings is been practiced by many airlines actually,not just SIA. Of course they wont put it into printings or show it on the video and etc...orelse that would take like hours of footage of DO's and Dont's. It probably may be a simple matter to you, but in times to come...it could be our love ones flying onboard,apart from us....for sure we want them to have a safe journey. why not everyone... just ask first before doing it.

  3. #103

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by adamadam View Post
    sexy socks

  4. #104

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    No pics of interiors, but cockpit controls no problem!


    http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...egments-f.html


    "Then, the First Officer came out of the flight deck and was hanging around in the galley so I realised it was my chance to ask him to do me a favour; no, not divert the plane to somewhere that involves flying for an extra 6 hours (although that would have been nice!), but to ask him to take a picture of the cockpit with my camera (since passengers are not allowed in during the flight anymore). He seemed happy enough to grant me my wish, so I gave him my camera and waited.

    "After a few minutes, I thought I can handle some more food, so when I saw the LSS again I asked her for the dessert. My camera came back as well with a very good photo of the cockpit both with flash and without flash – the windows were completely white from the light, however."
    Last edited by albertsy2; 16th March 2010 at 12:18 AM.

  5. #105

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by whizzard View Post
    Teach me how to be invisible leh ...

    Actually, my course instructor did try to teach us how to blend and fit into a scene to be able to take photos of people around you without them paying you undue attention. Guess I am a slow learner .....
    well, i don't know, i never got into trouble because i was shooting out of the plane.

    i also have my doubts about whether interior of plane actually has any bearing to security. i am quite sure that you can easily, easily find out the layout of a plane, and there are far less noticeable ways to obtain such footage/pictures than snapping away with a dslr.

    for example:

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/a3801.htm

    like i said, it is more likely that it is the case that the female staff felt uneasy and did not wish to approach you directly.. and got their male colleague (which is probably there for such situations) to help out.

  6. #106

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by shaztech View Post
    well...something for everyone to ponder. the offence starts when you start snapping the aircraft interior and also the crew working in it. If you just wanna shoot the sunrise/sunsets, or anything outside for that matters...i thk its pretty much fine. And this rulings is been practiced by many airlines actually,not just SIA. Of course they wont put it into printings or show it on the video and etc...orelse that would take like hours of footage of DO's and Dont's. It probably may be a simple matter to you, but in times to come...it could be our love ones flying onboard,apart from us....for sure we want them to have a safe journey. why not everyone... just ask first before doing it.
    i am seriously wondering about all of you that are spouting "rulings", "rules" that say that aircraft interior cannot be shot.

    i mean, personally, it holds no interest, neither is it very interesting or pretty, so i will not snap it. it's just that i've bothered to search around for such rules, or whatever you guys seem to be claiming and i find nothing but aircraft interior photograph libraries:

    http://photolibrary.baa.com/aircraft...nterior+photos

    http://www.aviationphotolink.co.uk/p..._interior.html

    which seem to suggest that this ruling of yours, based on reasons of security, is probably hearsay or self-derived. if that is not the case, maybe it is better to admit that this is so, so as to not mislead people reading this thread.

  7. #107
    Member whizzard's Avatar
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    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by shaztech View Post
    well...something for everyone to ponder. the offence starts when you start snapping the aircraft interior and also the crew working in it. If you just wanna shoot the sunrise/sunsets, or anything outside for that matters...i thk its pretty much fine. And this rulings is been practiced by many airlines actually,not just SIA. Of course they wont put it into printings or show it on the video and etc...orelse that would take like hours of footage of DO's and Dont's. It probably may be a simple matter to you, but in times to come...it could be our love ones flying onboard,apart from us....for sure we want them to have a safe journey. why not everyone... just ask first before doing it.
    Hi shaztech, understand you are a flight attendant from your profile hence you would probably be more conversant on this "policy" than me.

    If it is indeed a policy that phototaking is not allowed onboard and because it is such a "potential terrorist threat", just paste a no phototaking sign in the plane like the no smoking sign that you see onboard. Simple and effective. Guess no phototaking is not serious enough to warrant a sticker like no smoking or maybe its just bad for publicity.

  8. #108

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    I have always taken pics of my family and friends aboard aircraft and even had stewards/stewardesses take pics for me.

    I am sure there is a rule that one may not take pictures of the airport from the air, because one time the pilot mentioned it during his PA announcement. But that was only during takeoff and landing.

  9. #109

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/is-pho...-airplane.html

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...d.main/348296/

    Normally (this term allows exceptions) it is not a problem to take pictures during the cruise part of a flight; it is forbidden though during take-off and landing among other things because cameras can pose a serious threat if during turbulence they fly around the cabin (ever knocked your SLR against your head, then you should know this doesn't feel nice and that's NOTHING compared to a camera knocking your head at multiple g's).

    What some of you guys forget (or apparently don't know) though, is that after the Commander and the First Officer, the cabin attendants are next in the chain of authority on-board the aircraft and you're supposed to follow their instructions (they can have you removed from the a/c if you don't); so all the statements about them having to show you an official paper that clarifies the use of photography equipment on the flight is nonsense!

    The best way to handle things is to ask nicely and comply to the instructions given to you and not to be a smartass.

    You may use audio and video devices only with a headset. Use of still and video cameras, film or digital, is permitted only for recording personal events. Photography or video recording of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.*
    http://www.aa.com/i18nForward.do?p=/...Technology.jsp

    first link states that air france was unable to confirm on policies, and that policy seems to differ from airline to airline.
    Last edited by night86mare; 16th March 2010 at 12:32 AM.

  10. #110

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by creative-studio View Post
    First time i heard that no photography is allow onboard. I have took some photos Eg: meals, skyline, sunrise and even has asked the stewardess to take a photo of me and my wife before. No problem. Maybe im lucky :P
    That's cos you're taking pictures of things which serve as personal keepsake or memories.

    But if you look at the pics that whizzard took, they are of SQ gals. I am sure the steward saw him pointing his cam at the gals or perhaps what he thought to be interior of the airplane. Of course, from a photography point of view, you can give 101 reasons: I'm just testing my cam's focusing ability; I just bought a new 35mm lens and I can't wait to test it out, etc etc.

    But should the steward give him the benefit of the doubt, considering that there are perhaps safety regulations (or even modesty of the stewardess) to note also?

    Just because the airline allows some photography to happen inside the cabin doesn't mean one will have the free will to do what he or she likes. Imagine, you take out your tripod, place it along the aisle, and expect the steward not to stop you? Are you going to tell him: Photography is allowed so you can't stop me! Of course not! You must use some common sense and discretion.

    Anyway, I think it's rude also. Other than security reasons, there is a strong line to be drawn where the personal space of the stewardesses and other passengers is concerned. How would you like if another passenger points his lens at you and then tell you, "So what? Photographer is allowed! I can take a pic of you."

    To whizzard:

    In life, you can kick a fuss out of everything. You can assert your rights and bitch about every minor incident in life that doesn't go your way. Aren't we Singaporeans so good in that? But why do that?

    You need to learn that there are rules to follow in life. Sometimes we hate the rules. Don't we hate certain things in Singapore but we can't change? As photographers, you must respect rules. Talking about that, I hate it when clearly it is said that no photography is allowed and damn, some dim wits will still pop that flash in the dark!

    To me, this is a straight forward case. Your actions do not imply you are taking pics just for your own personal keepsake. you should count yourself lucky the steward did not ask you to show him what images you had been taking. If I were you, I'd be damn embarrassed and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a darn good reason why those images contain the stewardess' faces. What would you tell them, Whizzard? It's a personal project? Would they have believed you? You can justify all you want, but the one to lose out will be you.

    As many have said here, live and let live. I don't think you have a winning case. And please... if you're adamant on trying to repeat what you're doing, I suggest you take a step back and analyze the whole matter again before you get into trouble or become a hated trouble-maker.

    (I don't think the analogy you give about the caviar holds here. Your case is different. I'm not sure what tone the steward used on you, but perhaps he was only being quick to stop an action which he deemed not appropriate -- someone taking pics discreetly at the interior or his fellow female colleagues, and hence might sound a tad stern.)

  11. #111

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by whizzard View Post
    Hi shaztech, understand you are a flight attendant from your profile hence you would probably be more conversant on this "policy" than me.

    If it is indeed a policy that phototaking is not allowed onboard and because it is such a "potential terrorist threat", just paste a no phototaking sign in the plane like the no smoking sign that you see onboard. Simple and effective. Guess no phototaking is not serious enough to warrant a sticker like no smoking or maybe its just bad for publicity.
    You don't seem to get it. Photo-taking is allowed. But your kind of action, No no.... It's all about using common sense and discretion, my friend.

  12. #112

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by whizzard View Post
    Teach me how to be invisible leh ...

    Actually, my course instructor did try to teach us how to blend and fit into a scene to be able to take photos of people around you without them paying you undue attention. Guess I am a slow learner .....
    Goodness... Are you the kind who takes everything that is said and done literally? You can practice your photography, but again, use your common sense on where you do so, why you're doing it, and how you're doing it!

    Please don't go overboard... I don't know you personally, but it's sad if one day, you get beaten to a pulp by some guys even though photograph is allowed wherever you're snapping.

  13. #113

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by whizzard View Post
    Hi shaztech, understand you are a flight attendant from your profile hence you would probably be more conversant on this "policy" than me.

    If it is indeed a policy that phototaking is not allowed onboard and because it is such a "potential terrorist threat", just paste a no phototaking sign in the plane like the no smoking sign that you see onboard. Simple and effective. Guess no phototaking is not serious enough to warrant a sticker like no smoking or maybe its just bad for publicity.
    dont get me wrong... the policy stated after september 11 is no photography on aircraft interiors and crew on board. period...u wanna shoot the northern lights...the sunset...the high grounds... shouldnt be any problems. i used to be a flight crew before.... and with 3 different airlines i worked with has the same policy. i know in american airliner... this rulings are taken more seriously. I guessed if they were to put all the stickers... for all the dont's ....phewww that would take a whole lot of areas since there is quite a number of dont's. Like i mentioned in my previous comment, that in the UK you cant simply take photos in public. It actually ways used by the terrorists to gain info. I find it ridiculous at first, but came to thk of it...since it's for safety,not just for my surrounding, it's for me too. They used to ask passer bys and also photographers to sign some kinda petition to have this policy removed. Anyway, I think if you're interested on cabin interiors or trying to do a photojournalism-ish style onboard...try and seek approval. that way no one can say no to you (apart from annoyed pax from the sounds of your shutter). happy shooting.

  14. #114

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    That's cos you're taking pictures of things which serve as personal keepsake or memories.

    But if you look at the pics that whizzard took, they are of SQ gals. I am sure the steward saw him pointing his cam at the gals or perhaps what he thought to be interior of the airplane. Of course, from a photography point of view, you can give 101 reasons: I'm just testing my cam's focusing ability; I just bought a new 35mm lens and I can't wait to test it out, etc etc.

    But should the steward give him the benefit of the doubt, considering that there are perhaps safety regulations (or even modesty of the stewardess) to note also?

    Just because the airline allows some photography to happen inside the cabin doesn't mean one will have the free will to do what he or she likes. Imagine, you take out your tripod, place it along the aisle, and expect the steward not to stop you? Are you going to tell him: Photography is allowed so you can't stop me! Of course not! You must use some common sense and discretion.

    Anyway, I think it's rude also. Other than security reasons, there is a strong line to be drawn where the personal space of the stewardesses and other passengers is concerned. How would you like if another passenger points his lens at you and then tell you, "So what? Photographer is allowed! I can take a pic of you."

    To whizzard:

    In life, you can kick a fuss out of everything. You can assert your rights and bitch about every minor incident in life that doesn't go your way. Aren't we Singaporeans so good in that? But why do that?

    You need to learn that there are rules to follow in life. Sometimes we hate the rules. Don't we hate certain things in Singapore but we can't change? As photographers, you must respect rules. Talking about that, I hate it when clearly it is said that no photography is allowed and damn, some dim wits will still pop that flash in the dark!

    To me, this is a straight forward case. Your actions do not imply you are taking pics just for your own personal keepsake. you should count yourself lucky the steward did not ask you to show him what images you had been taking. If I were you, I'd be damn embarrassed and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a darn good reason why those images contain the stewardess' faces. What would you tell them, Whizzard? It's a personal project? Would they have believed you? You can justify all you want, but the one to lose out will be you.

    As many have said here, live and let live. I don't think you have a winning case. And please... if you're adamant on trying to repeat what you're doing, I suggest you take a step back and analyze the whole matter again before you get into trouble or become a hated trouble-maker.

    (I don't think the analogy you give about the caviar holds here. Your case is different. I'm not sure what tone the steward used on you, but perhaps he was only being quick to stop an action which he deemed not appropriate -- someone taking pics discreetly at the interior or his fellow female colleagues, and hence might sound a tad stern.)

    well said..

  15. #115

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by shaztech View Post
    Like i mentioned in my previous comment, that in the UK you cant simply take photos in public. It actually ways used by the terrorists to gain info.
    oh boy...

    that is NOT TRUE.

    take this coming from someone in the uk right now, who has been taking photos in public EVERYDAY.

  16. #116

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    That's cos you're taking pictures of things which serve as personal keepsake or memories.

    But if you look at the pics that whizzard took, they are of SQ gals. I am sure the steward saw him pointing his cam at the gals or perhaps what he thought to be interior of the airplane. Of course, from a photography point of view, you can give 101 reasons: I'm just testing my cam's focusing ability; I just bought a new 35mm lens and I can't wait to test it out, etc etc.

    But should the steward give him the benefit of the doubt, considering that there are perhaps safety regulations (or even modesty of the stewardess) to note also?

    Just because the airline allows some photography to happen inside the cabin doesn't mean one will have the free will to do what he or she likes. Imagine, you take out your tripod, place it along the aisle, and expect the steward not to stop you? Are you going to tell him: Photography is allowed so you can't stop me! Of course not! You must use some common sense and discretion.

    Anyway, I think it's rude also. Other than security reasons, there is a strong line to be drawn where the personal space of the stewardesses and other passengers is concerned. How would you like if another passenger points his lens at you and then tell you, "So what? Photographer is allowed! I can take a pic of you."

    To whizzard:

    In life, you can kick a fuss out of everything. You can assert your rights and bitch about every minor incident in life that doesn't go your way. Aren't we Singaporeans so good in that? But why do that?

    You need to learn that there are rules to follow in life. Sometimes we hate the rules. Don't we hate certain things in Singapore but we can't change? As photographers, you must respect rules. Talking about that, I hate it when clearly it is said that no photography is allowed and damn, some dim wits will still pop that flash in the dark!

    To me, this is a straight forward case. Your actions do not imply you are taking pics just for your own personal keepsake. you should count yourself lucky the steward did not ask you to show him what images you had been taking. If I were you, I'd be damn embarrassed and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a darn good reason why those images contain the stewardess' faces. What would you tell them, Whizzard? It's a personal project? Would they have believed you? You can justify all you want, but the one to lose out will be you.

    As many have said here, live and let live. I don't think you have a winning case. And please... if you're adamant on trying to repeat what you're doing, I suggest you take a step back and analyze the whole matter again before you get into trouble or become a hated trouble-maker.

    (I don't think the analogy you give about the caviar holds here. Your case is different. I'm not sure what tone the steward used on you, but perhaps he was only being quick to stop an action which he deemed not appropriate -- someone taking pics discreetly at the interior or his fellow female colleagues, and hence might sound a tad stern.)

    agreed! really well said

  17. #117

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    oh boy...

    that is NOT TRUE.

    take this coming from someone in the uk right now, who has been taking photos in public EVERYDAY.
    well...than it is clearly that u dont know about the UK photographer's rights issues that was on the talk not long ago. They even had a gathering at trafalgar square to actually show their protest on this bill.

    http://www.urban75.org/photos/photog...d-the-law.html

  18. #118

    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    oh boy...

    that is NOT TRUE.

    take this coming from someone in the uk right now, who has been taking photos in public EVERYDAY.
    MI13 is coming to catcha...

    anyways, nobody has raised this point, but one reason why the steward behaved in this manner was SOME PASSENGER probably complained to him about your obtrusion and he had to protect the rights of other passengers as well.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    My fren owns a bakery shop. She told me at one time a fella was holding a DSLR directly outside her shop and obviously was taking shots into her shop. She went and asked the guy not to take photos as he does not have the permission to do so....the fella just ignored her (as tho she was invisible) and continued shooting. She did not do anything after that but was angry.

    So I told her, if next time such photographer wannabies were to do that ignoring her after being asked nicely, just take put some butter/oil on her fingers and smear it directly onto his lens. And use the hp to take some shots of him to post on clubsnap.
    If he was on a public area outside the shop, then there is nothing he is doing that legally wrong. Smearing stuff on his lens however, is. And depending on how it turns out, using the hp to post on clubsnap could be as well.

  20. #120
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    Default Re: No photography onboard SIA aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by whizzard View Post
    I don't know how to put this across. After the "incident" and after he had handed me the piece of paper with his name on it as per my request, I couldn't sleep the entire flight and decided to watch the movies onboard for the entire flight until 7:00am.

    Now, if I were him, being a professional customer service provider with many years of experience to boot, surely I would realise that this passenger is a little upset. Since this passenger was awake throughout the 8-hour flight, I would have ample opportunities to exercise service recovery (no need to offer me free vouchers, etc, etc).

    If I were him, I would have approached the passenger, apologised that I had to prevent the passenger from taking photos onboard the plane as it is against company policy for phototaking (assuming this is true) and perhaps just crack a joke or two to diffuse the situation. Being a very experienced cabin crew who would probably have seen and handled more "severe" incidents than this and carried out many service recoveries before, he had a choice and he made his choice, probably aware of the consequences. Maybe it was his ego that prevented him from doing so, maybe not, who knows.
    Maybe he just thought that what he did was totally appropriate and you warranted no apology? After all, you wouldn't apologise to a thief or a murderer or a terrorist if you caught them and arrested them.

    Not commenting about whether his actions were appropriate or not, as amongst other things I haven't heard his side of the story, just that there might be a reason why he didn't come up to you afterwards.

    Especially as, if you'd said, you peacefully put away your camera, he might have never realised he had offended you.

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