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Thread: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

  1. #61

    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by clownpo09 View Post
    and about the credibility of the Pentax US President? as far as i can tell the argument about this is weak. Saying that an author lacks the authority to write/say about a topic is a variant of ad hominem. The question is whether the author is correct or not.
    actually to be fair, i don't think the ad hominem argument here isn't too horrible.

    what is being seen here is called "ad hominem circumstantial":

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...d-hominem.html

    i think there's nothing wrong with questioning a source when there is credible reason to believe that the source may be necessarily biased because of the position of the source.


    i quote:

    There are times when it is prudent to suspicious of a person's claims, such as when it is evident that the claims are being biased by the person's interests. For example, if a tobacco company representative claims that tobacco does not cause cancer, it would be prudent to not simply accept the claim. This is because the person has a motivation to make the claim, whether it is true or not. However, the mere fact that the person has a motivation to make the claim does not make it false.
    what i wish to highlight is the last statement - just because someone from pentax made the claim, doesn't mean that the claim is necessarily false - to assume so is the error, not asking for prudency in addressing the claim.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Let's forget about MIJ version FA limiteds. They are not available new anymore (unless some left over new old stock). If you wanna buy new from shops, just buy the AIV versions.

    I only saw one guy complained about his AIV FA31 at pentaxforums, but I've seen alot complains about the MIJ versions, probably because not many AIV FA limiteds sold yet.

    So far most DA lenses (all AIV except the DA18250) are pretty reliable and good quality ones except the SDM problem which is over exaggerated imo.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by liveevil View Post
    pay more means better quality?

    how about this:

    a) a japanese who can easily find another job in Japan.

    or

    b) a vietnamese who really treasure his job as he really needs the money.


    seriously, both our scenarios dont make sense at all. These are all assumptions that may or may not be true. And definitely do not affect the quality of the lenses.
    exactly..read with understanding pls..

    I at no point say AIV is any worse than MIJ..all the assumpations came from the replies in your head.
    Last edited by clioboy; 2nd March 2010 at 10:24 AM.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    actually to be fair, i don't think the ad hominem argument here isn't too horrible.
    i think there's nothing wrong with questioning a source when there is credible reason to believe that the source may be necessarily biased because of the position of the source.
    i think the ad hominem argument here is uneccesary. that is, if you are more interested whether MIJ lenses are better than AIV rather than the about Pentax President's motive.
    Quote Originally Posted by clioboy View Post
    of cos he has to say there is no diff...he need the general public to accept the fact that they are moving from place where the wage is the highest in the world to a developing country and still sell the lens at about the same or even higher price..
    conclusions like this tends to shove off people to the authors motive, which i think is misleading, rather than if what he claim is true or false.
    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    what i wish to highlight is the last statement - just because someone from pentax made the claim, doesn't mean that the claim is necessarily false - to assume so is the error, not asking for prudency in addressing the claim.
    exactly what i mean.(sorry if becoming a little OT)
    Last edited by clownpo09; 2nd March 2010 at 01:53 PM.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by clownpo09 View Post
    have you ever worked in a company in vietnam to compare the qc? as far as the discussion is going no valid facts/comparisons has been presented that can say that MIJ lenses are better than AIV.

    even if it somebody already have worked in either japan or vietnam manufacturing company it wont suffice to invalidate the claim of the Pentax US president that both MIJ or AIV have the same quality, unless he's worked in both company's QCs and knows the details.
    In my course of my work when travelling overseas to places like Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam to name a few, I visited Local & MNCs factories for product sales & technical discussions especially to Production floor & QC/QA rooms.

    I can see there are distinctions of the Production & QC setup between Local & MNCs in term of equipment & staff working environment which I will not elaborate in this thread.

    Any MNCs who setup shops overseas will definately follow the corporate culture of their mother factory. However, it is challenge to instill human culture in a foreign land.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Loke View Post
    In my course of my work when travelling overseas to places like Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam to name a few, I visited Local & MNCs factories for product sales & technical discussions especially to Production floor & QC/QA rooms.

    I can see there are distinctions of the Production & QC setup between Local & MNCs in term of equipment & staff working environment which I will not elaborate in this thread.

    Any MNCs who setup shops overseas will definately follow the corporate culture of their mother factory. However, it is challenge to instill human culture in a foreign land.
    Yes Ben... I agreed with you, as I have seen my fair share too. But am glad to say that in S'pore, the sister/branch companies seem managed to fair 'better' than their 'mother'. Of course it due to stringent laws & regulations.

    Do allow me to share this from another perspective, since we're still on country/people/culture that spins-off from a Pentax product. S'porean workers from offices to factories can deliver well within a SOP system but I would not say the same when its a foreigner (no flaming here on my part) doing the same work. Will be good if its better but its never. If there's any, its a rare gem. Again, its a culture thingy within.

    So to farm the job out overseas, to another land or to bring in 'talents' from another land is the same, LPPL to me. Its the mentality that matters.

    Having said, I'm looking forward to cheaper alternatives (Pentax) from Vietnam or even Indonesia as long as it comparable (forget about being better for now) & at a lower price. And as for the president's speech, he chose to step out to comment about it... positively or negatively? but keeping silence will do them in.

  7. #67
    Senior Member creampuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    maybe they get off imagining that japan factory workers look like this:



    whereas vietnamese factory workers look like this:




    Aiyoh, stop, stop, stop... this is so WRONG... you given us all the wrong kind of idea of how a Vietnamese should look like... (the grandma riding bicycle definitely not interesting, hmm, but maybe the grand daughter... who knows)
    This is the kind of mental picture you should be having... Happy thoughts...

    Last edited by creampuff; 4th March 2010 at 11:23 AM.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    Yeah if Toyota (with their hybrid cars expertise) ever made SDM for Pentax, you'd get probably get comments like:
    Buy a Pentax... with SDM you'll never stop!!!
    Pentax...performance that's unstoppable!!!
    +++


  9. #69

    Default Re: Made in Japan vs Made in Vietnam? No difference says Pentax USA President

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    Aiyoh, stop, stop, stop... this is so WRONG... you given us all the wrong kind of idea of how a Vietnamese should look like... (the grandma riding bicycle definitely not interesting, hmm, but maybe the grand daughter... who knows)
    This is the kind of mental picture you should be having... Happy thoughts...

    Thats more I like it.
    My Flickr iownthislensthatlensthislensthatlens

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