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Thread: Hey guys!

  1. #21

    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Pentax may be the cheapest around, for entry-level bodies but their lenses are rather limited and expensive. Again, getting a DSLR = getting a whole system, not just the camera alone.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem
    Hi there,

    Please do not put your own definition into what i said. I am saying marketing by C/N has obviously made the masses believe C/N are better.

    And you cannot deny that is the truth cos how often do you see people coming in here posting that they think C/N are way better? If it is the truth, how is that inflammatory?

    Even thou i am using Pentax now, I can freely admit that I was part of this masses that thought C/N was way better too. My initial choice after doing "lots of research" was a D90. I thought absolutely nothing about Pentax. So i am just another example of what i am referring to.

    Kindly explain to me how I should interpret the following sentence by you, since you claim that I put in my own definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem
    Yeah you are dead wrong

    Yeah yeah yeah, nikon and canon are only better off in doing marketing to brain wash the masses that their cameras are better than other brands when it is a total myth.....

    Let me ask you, isn't the goal of companies like Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc to make and sell products that will maximize profits?
    The whole idea of marketing (in simplistic terms) is to convince the buying public to choose that particular brand/product over other competitors, thus increasing sales and boosting profits. If a company is successful at that, even with the additional cost involved, is that a reason to begrudge them?
    How do you think a company like Nokia came to dominate the mobile phone market? Simply by producing phones which were "better" than rivals Sony Ericsson, Motorola, etc...?
    Exploring! :)

  3. #23
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
    Pentax may be the cheapest around, for entry-level bodies but their lenses are rather limited and expensive. Again, getting a DSLR = getting a whole system, not just the camera alone.
    Not everyone starts buying a DSLR and ends up with a pro body and f/2.8 zooms
    Lots and lots of people simply buy the entry-level body with kit lens, and maybe 1 or 2 other lenses, that's it... so... in that case, buying a Pentax would prove to be no hindrance to "advancing" in this hobby.
    Exploring! :)

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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Ok guys i really like the way that you all are getting into the discussio. AND i thank fireemblem has done a really good job on the intro of camera for me. I really like the effort. Thanks, i will really lk into the camera that u said about!

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
    Pentax may be the cheapest around, for entry-level bodies but their lenses are rather limited and expensive. Again, getting a DSLR = getting a whole system, not just the camera alone.
    I think you have the wrong impression here.

    The beauty of the Pentax K mount is that all legacy lenses from 1975 till now can be used. And Pentax has been a major player in the film SLR market for a long long time. This actually gives Pentax DSLR users a much wider range of lenses to be used.

    Pentax lenses are not expensive either. Some of the lenses may seem to be slightly (only slightly) more expensive than the Canon equivalent. But you have to remember that a lot of Pentax lenses are weather resistant. And when you think of L lenses, the expense really goes up for Canon. While systems like Nikon, Pentax, Sony do not really have this real distinction between non-pro and pro lenses. Overall, they work out to be the same in the end if you start to collect a few L lenses.

    Yes, you are right about one thing, that getting a DSLR = getting a whole system. Although I think Canon is an excellent DSLR system, Pentax is also very good system to consider. And you should look at the Pentax used lens market. Your eyes will pop out when you see how cheap the old legacy K mount lenses can be.

    BTW. I am not a Pentax user. I just want to be fair.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 14th February 2010 at 11:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    Kindly explain to me how I should interpret the following sentence by you, since you claim that I put in my own definition.




    Let me ask you, isn't the goal of companies like Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc to make and sell products that will maximize profits?
    The whole idea of marketing (in simplistic terms) is to convince the buying public to choose that particular brand/product over other competitors, thus increasing sales and boosting profits. If a company is successful at that, even with the additional cost involved, is that a reason to begrudge them?
    How do you think a company like Nokia came to dominate the mobile phone market? Simply by producing phones which were "better" than rivals Sony Ericsson, Motorola, etc...?
    yes your definition that people who buy C/N are gullible idiots. What i meant is so totally different.

    The fact is true that it is mostly Canon/Nikon that does a lot of advertising. Pentax does almost zero advertising thus the masses does not really have a chance to know of this brand and thus buy into Canon/Nikon.

    It totally does not means they are the "gullible idiots" you are referring to. It just means that Canon/Nikon are too good in their advertising which the masses are lead to believe it due to much lesser information from other brands.

    Nah where did i ever begrudge them? I am just providing more light on the brand i am using and that similar dslr standards can be brought at much lower prices.

    Maybe it is just that i am not a person who buy stuff just cos of advertising.
    Last edited by Fireemblem; 15th February 2010 at 12:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
    Pentax may be the cheapest around, for entry-level bodies but their lenses are rather limited and expensive. Again, getting a DSLR = getting a whole system, not just the camera alone.
    there you go, someone who does not know anything about Pentax going on and on.

    Pentax lens are limited and expensive.......lol

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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem View Post
    ....The fact is true that it is mostly Canon/Nikon that does a lot of advertising. Pentax does almost zero advertising thus the masses does not really have a chance to know of this brand and thus buy into Canon/Nikon...
    You really sure about that?

    A company launching products that does not do advertising is a company that does not know how to do business. Not a virtue.

    And think again what you just said. Are you 100% sure that Pentax does almost zero advertising? Sorry man, I have to call you on this one.

    And responding in your tone of choice: There you go, a person who thinks he knows so much about Pentax going on and on and on.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 15th February 2010 at 01:01 AM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem View Post
    there you go, someone who does not know anything about Pentax going on and on.

    Pentax lens are limited and expensive.......lol
    I started with Canon, jumped to Pentax and came back to Canon. I have my own reasons why I left Pentax so please don't get me started.
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You really sure about that?

    A company launching products that does not do advertising is a company that does not know how to do business. Not a virtue.

    And think again what you just said. Are you 100% sure that Pentax does almost zero advertising? Sorry man, I have to call you on this one.

    And responding in your tone of choice: There you go, a person who thinks he knows so much about Pentax going on and on and on.
    yes i am sure on that,

    You ever see Pentax advertising in singapore?

    Well they did but it was more like a 4 x 3 inch space that hardly anyone notices

    It is mostly thru word of mouth that people get to know Pentax and not active advertising by the company.

    When the K-7 weather sealed dslr came out, any advertising? yes but it was the 4 x 3 inch small advert.

    When extremely good Pentax Kx came out, do you see any advertising on the newspaper? I certainly did not noticed any. Or if there is really one, then it is on such a small scale that i did not even notice

    Even the recent CNY promotional price of $1300++ for the Pentax K-7, there is almost zero advertising again.

    So it is no wonder that so many people know nothing about Pentax thou this brand used to be a legend in the film era.

    So comparing to the scale of C/N advertising, Pentax advert can almost be termed like close to zero.

    nah i do not think i know too much on Pentax, just that i think i better awareness of Pentax
    Last edited by Fireemblem; 15th February 2010 at 01:16 AM.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by yrh0413 View Post
    I started with Canon, jumped to Pentax and came back to Canon. I have my own reasons why I left Pentax so please don't get me started.
    well then ok, have fun with what i term the real expensive Canon lens.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem View Post
    yes i am sure on that,

    You ever see Pentax advertising in singapore?

    Well they did but it was more like a 4 x 3 inch space that hardly anyone notices

    It is mostly thru word of mouth that people get to know Pentax and not active advertising by the company.

    When the K-7 weather sealed dslr came out, any advertising? yes but it was the 4 x 3 inch small advert.

    When extremely good Pentax Kx came out, do you see any advertising on the newspaper? I certainly did not noticed any. Or if there is really one, then it is on such a small scale that i did not even notice

    Even the recent CNY promotional price of $1300++ for the Pentax K-7, there is almost zero advertising again.

    So it is no wonder that so many people know nothing about Pentax thou this brand used to be a legend in the film era.
    I strongly advise you to take the shoe out of your mouth. A weak marketing team doesn't mean they have almost zero spending in advertising. 2 mins worth of Google:

    http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/p...entax-ads.html

    http://photorumors.com/wp-content/up...k-7-poster.jpg

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541074

    http://www.popco.net/zboard/view.php...arrived&no=111
    Last edited by daredevil123; 15th February 2010 at 01:20 AM.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I strongly advise you to take the shoe out of your mouth. A lousy and weak marketing team doesn't mean they have almost zero spending in advertising.

    http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/p...entax-ads.html

    http://photorumors.com/wp-content/up...k-7-poster.jpg

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541074

    http://www.popco.net/zboard/view.php...arrived&no=111
    Please do not use overseas ad in the singapore context.

    I am referring to the local context since people here generally know so little about pentax.

    So carry on, get me some bigger scale local pentax ad? And the one single local ad you pointed out here is the small 4 x 3 size ad on the local newspaper that hardly anyone even notice.

    So comparing to the gigantic advertising by Canon/Nikon, yes that is what i term almost zero advert
    Last edited by Fireemblem; 15th February 2010 at 01:21 AM.

  14. #34
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem View Post
    ...The fact is true that it is mostly Canon/Nikon that does a lot of advertising. Pentax does almost zero advertising thus the masses does not really have a chance to know of this brand and thus buy into Canon/Nikon....
    Your above statement was a sweeping statement with no mention of "Singapore context". So don't you go using the "Oh-I-was-talking-about-the-singapore-context-here" excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem View Post
    Please do not use overseas ad in the singapore context.

    I am referring to the local context since people here generally know so little about pentax.

    So carry on, get me some bigger scale local pentax ad? And the one single local ad you pointed out here is the small 4 x 3 size ad on the local newspaper that hardly anyone even notice.

    So comparing to the gigantic advertising by Canon/Nikon, yes that is what i term almost zero advert
    Oh now it is local? If a company spends money in advertising overseas and almost nothing in Singapore. What does that tell you. They are frugal? Or the Singapore market is not significant to them?

    It boils down to strategic direction man. Nothing to do with "look C and N are evil because they advertise like crazy so we pay for advertising". It has also nothing to do with Pentax passing savings on users BECAUSE they do not advertise. Pentax is more value for money NOW, due to a strategic decision they made to aggressively go for market share (internationally, so we are in the right context) by using PRICE. And people do not know much about Pentax because they do not advertise as much - right. It is what it is, and it does not insinuate that that savings are passed on to you because of this action.

    C and N and S advertise aggressively because they have reached a sizable user base here in SG. It is just a decision in business man. Nothing demonic about it.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 15th February 2010 at 01:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Your above statement was a sweeping statement with no mention of "Singapore context". So don't you go using the "Oh-I-was-talking-about-the-singapore-context-here" excuse.



    Oh now it is local? If a company spends money in advertising overseas and almost nothing in Singapore. What does that tell you. They are frugal? Or the Singapore market is not significant to them?
    Ok fine you want to talk about international?

    I never said that Pentax did not do any advertising

    I said almost zero and that is true if compared to the scale of advertising from Nikon/Canon.

    But when i made that statement, it is to someone local and in a local forum. So it will also not be wrong to say that what i says is relating to local context.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem View Post
    Ok fine you want to talk about international?

    I never said that Pentax did not do any advertising

    I said almost zero and that is true if compared to the scale of advertising from Nikon/Canon.

    But when i made that statement, it is to someone local and in a local forum. So it will also not be wrong to say that what i says is relating to local context.
    Marketing costs is measured in terms of of a percentage to sales. If you even understand much about marketing. Not absolutes.

    Yes to local forum and local audience. But your insinuation is that the savings from low spending in advertising is somehow passed on to the consumer. Which I have already shown you that it is not and that Pentax DO advertise. Savings in a small market like Singapore do not contribute that much to the pricing of Pentax globally. Yes, I hope you realize that internationally distributed consumer electronics are mostly priced globally or at least close.

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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    And BTW,

    I have seen Pentax ads in magazines in Singapore. Even though the magazines may be foreign ones like Nat Geo or some photo mag, they are being sold in SG. You also probably missed my addition to post 2 post before about strategic direction. read it.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 15th February 2010 at 01:42 AM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Hi TS, the best camera is the one that feels most comfortable in your hand and the one that gives you the confidence when you are shooting. And lastly, the one that is within your budget
    Canon 60D | EF-S 15-85mm | EF 50mm f1.8 | flickr

  19. #39

    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by fireflame88 View Post
    Im pretty steady all right. Thank you guys for the help. The thing is Im really a noob in camera and I dun even know what to compare in cameras. But the good thing is im willing to learn. I wanna go for a DSLR as to me i felt that i can take better pictures with it atm. And I mean i do not know but i feel that canon and nikon is better off than other brands which I do not want to name. Correct me if Im wrong. I accept all opinions. And thanks Xander5480 for the help. Hopefully nikon d3000 and canon 500d is good for me!
    No problem, do PM me if you need more help.
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  20. #40
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hey guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireemblem
    yes your definition that people who buy C/N are gullible idiots. What i meant is so totally different.

    The fact is true that it is mostly Canon/Nikon that does a lot of advertising. Pentax does almost zero advertising thus the masses does not really have a chance to know of this brand and thus buy into Canon/Nikon.

    It totally does not means they are the "gullible idiots" you are referring to. It just means that Canon/Nikon are too good in their advertising which the masses are lead to believe it due to much lesser information from other brands.

    Nah where did i ever begrudge them? I am just providing more light on the brand i am using and that similar dslr standards can be brought at much lower prices.

    Maybe it is just that i am not a person who buy stuff just cos of advertising.
    I am merely following a logical conclusion to your train of thought.
    If a company can "brainwash" its customers that its products are better than the competitor, even though that's a "total myth" (your words there), what does that say about its customers?
    Exploring! :)

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