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Thread: Up coming feature in new DSLRs???

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    Default Up coming feature in new DSLRs???

    Wonder will they come out with DSLR that allow us to shoot using the LCD.... i am soooo not use to shooting using view finder...

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    Quote Originally Posted by blurboiboi
    Wonder will they come out with DSLR that allow us to shoot using the LCD.... i am soooo not use to shooting using view finder...
    AFAIK, I do not think it is possible to have a live preview LCD screen in DSLRs due to its construction and design (i.e. having a mirror reflect light from the lens up to the pentaprism and then out thru the viewfinder, the presence of the mirror blocks and prevents light from reaching the sensor unless the shutter is tripped). Maybe the experts here can verify and give a more detailed explanation.

    IMO, I prefer using the viewfinder to an LCD screen, coz you see things exactly as it is viewed by the lens thru the viewfinder (i.e "WYSIWYG - what u see is what u get"). No LCD screen (or EVF for that matter) can capture and match the sharpness and detail of the image as seen thru the viewfinder. You will prolly get used to it the longer u experience shooting thru the viewfinder, just needs some time.
    Last edited by Garion; 1st March 2004 at 11:48 AM.

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    by definition, Single Lens Reflex means you can't shoot using LCD. the mirror is blocking the sensor until the shot is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blurboiboi
    Wonder will they come out with DSLR that allow us to shoot using the LCD.... i am soooo not use to shooting using view finder...
    let me guess.... your DSLR is your first SLR? Gee... looks like you have to get used to it.

    Larry and Garion already explained why. You can't use a live preview on LCD on real SLRs.

    Now just to be imaginative, maybe one day it may be reality indeed with half mirrors.. who knows

  5. #5

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    While I disagree with the need to have it (long live the optical viewfinder), technically the mirror is no longer required and LCD preview/shooting is possible. The mirror design comes from the film SLR. It's dual purpose to expose the film and allow preview through the optical viewfinder. With DSLR, the sensor just needs to be activated and then deactivated to get the shot. There's no need to physically stop light from hitting the sensor when not taking a shot (although perhaps prolonged exposure to light could affect it in someway - not sure about that one).

    As Garion said, you will get used to it given enough time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry
    by definition, Single Lens Reflex means you can't shoot using LCD. the mirror is blocking the sensor until the shot is needed.
    wasn't there a old canon 1* <-- (can't remember the last aph) that uses a prism instead of mirror to split the light? Not very good due to light lossage i heard.

    Also not sure if that was considered under SLR?

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    Anyway, it should be too hard for future SLR's too have LCD live preview wat. just have an option to hold the mirror open and change the CCD chips to those of the proconsumer cameras. (darn! i knew i should have patented the idea before posting it here)

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    Olympus E10 and E20 did have SLR type of viewfinder and also a LCD live preview.... achieved via splitting of light I think.

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    Don't know about the others but I find it much more stable to use the VF because the camera is tugged closer to you rather than pushing the camera away using the LCD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit
    Don't know about the others but I find it much more stable to use the VF because the camera is tugged closer to you rather than pushing the camera away using the LCD.
    imagine using live preview on LCD with a big mama lens without tripod....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poon
    wasn't there a old canon 1* <-- (can't remember the last aph) that uses a prism instead of mirror to split the light? Not very good due to light lossage i heard.

    Also not sure if that was considered under SLR?
    it was called the Canon Pellix. basically it had a non-moving mirror which split the light from the lens to both the viewfinder and the film.
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    Quote Originally Posted by patch17
    it was called the Canon Pellix. basically it had a non-moving mirror which split the light from the lens to both the viewfinder and the film.
    wasn't it supposed to be the EOS 1N RS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sehsuan
    wasn't it supposed to be the EOS 1N RS?
    not too sure about the EOS 1N RS (maybe it's too modern), but the Pellix was made back in the mid 60's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce
    While I disagree with the need to have it (long live the optical viewfinder), technically the mirror is no longer required and LCD preview/shooting is possible. The mirror design comes from the film SLR. It's dual purpose to expose the film and allow preview through the optical viewfinder. With DSLR, the sensor just needs to be activated and then deactivated to get the shot. There's no need to physically stop light from hitting the sensor when not taking a shot (although perhaps prolonged exposure to light could affect it in someway - not sure about that one).

    As Garion said, you will get used to it given enough time.
    I think it has its good and bad points. I like the optical VF because it draws you into scene, and subjectively I think it helps you compose a shot better. However, one thing I miss is the lack of peripheral vision. With the LCD, you can remain aware of the surroundings and re-compose quickly in a dynamic situation.
    The other thing is cost and complexity. With the CCD/CMOS, there is now an opportunity to use an electronic shutter, with much higher shutter speeds than can be achieved mechanically. Imagine doing away with a mechanical shutter and mirror, how much less weight and complexity! And finally you can design reasonable wide angle lenses for the smaller digital sensors w/o the issue of backward protrusion into the mirror chamber.
    Till the tech matures though, SLR all the way......

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    ah lack of peripheral vision...maybe in the far future they will come up with somehting like a digital camera that uses a glasstron-like 3D surround viewer ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Royce
    technically the mirror is no longer required and LCD preview/shooting is possible. The mirror design comes from the film SLR. It's dual purpose to expose the film and allow preview through the optical viewfinder. With DSLR, the sensor just needs to be activated and then deactivated to get the shot. There's no need to physically stop light from hitting the sensor when not taking a shot (although perhaps prolonged exposure to light could affect it in someway - not sure about that one).
    Nope. This holds true for CCDs, yes, but with CMOS and LBCAST sensors, sensors still need mechanical shutters to control the exposure times, hence the reduced flash sync speeds for the D2h and 1D mkII.

    The other problem is, to achieve this, you would also need to lose your shutter curtain, otherwise that permanently covers the sensor except at time of exposure. Can you imagine the amount of dust that would accumulate on the sensor if you didn't have a mirror and a shutter curtain? Olympus can get around this on their Ex0 series because obviously it's a sealed unit so not much dust is going to get in in the first place.

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    I'll rather shoot 2000 images with a DSLR like D70 on a single battery charge than less than 50 shots using the LCD to compose the shot.

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    Currently,those EVF found in some prosumer cams like the CP5700 looks terrible. That's why SLR users still like to see the optical image, thru' the pentaprism. BTW, the D70 has got a penta-mirror - somehow, we still love that pentaprism. Wonder how good it looks - especially for those who are so used to the pentaprism, or is it all in the mind, when the pentamirror is made so good.

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    My concern with using EVMs or the LCD for composin is that the CCD is turned on all the time....will it result in higher occurrences of hot pixles or shorten the life of the CCD?
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    Actually, i'm sure it can be done, and possibly will be eventually.

    They might need to put two sensors in there - one for the proper high quality capture, and a small one somewhere in the light path (split-prism sounds good) for live preview and 3-colour live histogram.

    There are really times when it is very awkward to look through the viewfinder. Shooting backwards/sideways in a car with seatbelt and luggage, shooting very low angles, shooting a lot from a lowered tripod, etc. i'm sure SLRs users have encountered these situations sometimes or other.

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