View Poll Results: IF guilty, is Dr Silviu Ionescu immune from Singapore's criminal laws

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  • Yes

    31 54.39%
  • No

    23 40.35%
  • I dont really care after all it was just a hit-and-run accident leaving one dead

    2 3.51%
  • Who is Dr Silviu Ionescu?

    1 1.75%
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Thread: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

  1. #21
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Remember Michael Peter Fay? He was only given four strokes of the cane while his fellow accomplice from Hong Kong, Andy Shiu Chi Ho, was caned 12 strokes and sentenced to eight months in prison.

    Such a disparity when Michael Fay is not even a diplomat, I wouldn't expect the Singapore government to even dare lay its hands on a high ranking Romanian official with diplomatic immunity.
    was talking to friends about this, michael fay's example was quoted too.

    iirc, recently the newspaper quoted 3 examples where the diplomat immunity had been waived. but look carefully, the no. of years only 3 cases and god knows what kind of backing the victims had in all of the 3 cases.

    the papers also states that the family will not be able to claim from issurance, iirc. so sad.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  2. #22

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Remember Michael Peter Fay? He was only given four strokes of the cane while his fellow accomplice from Hong Kong, Andy Shiu Chi Ho, was caned 12 strokes and sentenced to eight months in prison.
    Andy got a reduction from 12 to 6 strokes, while Michael went from 6 to 4 after a personal appeal from (then) Prez Clinton. The official reason Andy got more was because he claimed trial, while Michael cut a deal for reduced sentence.
    From what I've heard, after the caning US-SG relations went through a cold spell.

  3. #23

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Don't let your emotions overtake the legal and political realities.

    Legally, no one is guilty until convicted. Whether you like it or not, that is the foundation of the justice system. And only the courts can pronounce guilt. Not the PM, not the Commissioner of Police and certainly not you.

    Legally, he also has diplomatic immunity. And while an attempt can be made to request for a waiver, it is still up to the foreign govt to decide. Pressuring them thru the press will not help. And in any case, what makes you presume that it hasn't been asked? As mentioned, such acts of diplomacy are typically conducted behind closed doors, and one does not want to complicate international relations by duking it out in the media.

    I repeat: one week is not a long time in police investigations, esp if the Police have no powers to arrest or compel the suspect to be interviewed. Filing diplomatic papers certainly takes longer than one week, and it has to go thru proper channels, ie MFA etc.

    You cannot stop someone who has not been arrested from leaving the country. Accept that. Innocent lives or not, the Govt cannot exceed its powers under Singapore and international law.

    The answer to your poll is simple: he is immune to S'pore law, like it or not, until it is waived. Guilt has nothing to do with it. Whether he should be immune is a separate matter. You should ask why S'pore accepts such international law to begin with. There is quid pro quo involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    My poll is only as logical as the person is thinking.

    I said "if guilty", not "found guilty by a court". obviously i was seeking what others thought.

    Why did they take so long to investigate? Dr Silviu Ionescu remained one week in Singapore before taking off. With eye-witnesses identifying the suspect, the police could have gathered more conclusive evidence easily within a week. A waival could have been applied to the romanian government and prevented him from leaving the country. there is no extradition treaty between singapore and romania if he returned to romania.
    Last edited by Xtol19; 3rd January 2010 at 11:05 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    i think we are missing the point. nobody is above the law in singapore.

    If you re-read article 30 of the vienna convention:

    A diplomatic agent shall enjoy immunity from the criminal jurisdiction of the receiving State. He shall also enjoy immunity from its civil and administrative jurisdiction, except in the case of:

    (a) A real action relating to private immovable property situated in the territory of the receiving State, unless he holds it on behalf of the sending State for the purposes of the mission;

    (b) An action relating to succession in which the diplomatic agent is involved as executor, administrator, heir or legatee as a private person and not on behalf of the sending State;

    (c) An action relating to any professional or commercial activity exercised by the diplomatic agent in the receiving State outside his official functions.

    i seriously doubt there was an official function at 3am in the morning. i am sure the answers will be revealed in due time.

  5. #25

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    grab your copy now!!!

    Taoism 你知[道]吗?http://yeobt.multiply.com
    Read With An Open Mind And Surely You Will Be Benefited.

  6. #26

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    i think we are missing the point. nobody is above the law in singapore.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/12/ny...wanted=1<br />

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2005Mar4.html

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...57C0A9609C8B63

    so any of these involve official functions?
    Last edited by night86mare; 4th January 2010 at 03:32 AM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    You reread it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    i think we are missing the point. nobody is above the law in singapore.

    If you re-read article 30 of the vienna convention:

    A diplomatic agent shall enjoy immunity from the criminal jurisdiction of the receiving State. He shall also enjoy immunity from its civil and administrative jurisdiction, except in the case of:

    (a) A real action relating to private immovable property situated in the territory of the receiving State, unless he holds it on behalf of the sending State for the purposes of the mission;

    (b) An action relating to succession in which the diplomatic agent is involved as executor, administrator, heir or legatee as a private person and not on behalf of the sending State;

    (c) An action relating to any professional or commercial activity exercised by the diplomatic agent in the receiving State outside his official functions.
    Last edited by Xtol19; 4th January 2010 at 01:38 PM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    You know, he can smile forever. With no extradition treaty, even if their govt waives diplomatic immunity, they can't arrest him in Romania and send him to S'pore.

    The guy is smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeobt View Post
    grab your copy now!!!


  9. #29

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtol19 View Post
    You know, he can smile forever. With no extradition treaty, even if their govt waives diplomatic immunity, they can't arrest him in Romania and send him to S'pore.

    The guy is smart.
    You can always get him "Israel"-style.

    Anyway, what about the case of Roman Polanski? He was arrested by Swedish police at the request of the US authorities in Sweden, though he is still fighting extradition.

  10. #30

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by yeobt View Post
    grab your copy now!!!

    He will be laughing for a long time. Laughing at us, for being stupid enough to let him go, laughing at our useless laws that can't protect us, and laughing at the dead man's family.

  11. #31

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    You can always get him "Israel"-style.

    Anyway, what about the case of Roman Polanski? He was arrested by Swedish police at the request of the US authorities in Sweden, though he is still fighting extradition.
    Like the munich incident? No way. Singapore govt no guts to pull off something like that.

    But then again, how come singapore police don't know how to play punk? Officially we can't do anything to him, but unofficially there are many things you can do.

    And how much trade we do with the romulans anyway? howcome so afraid to piss them off?

  12. #32

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Like the munich incident? No way. Singapore govt no guts to pull off something like that.

    But then again, how come singapore police don't know how to play punk? Officially we can't do anything to him, but unofficially there are many things you can do.

    And how much trade we do with the romulans anyway? howcome so afraid to piss them off?
    you have been watching too much movies.

    and you do realise, diplomacy is a very iffy thing. what you see as a simple act of "piss the romanians (not romulans) off" could explode into something very big. if it was as simple as that, people will be pissing on singapore officials everywhere they go. is singapore very scary? no. but there are many other things to consider before you piss a small little red dot off.

    so think about that, and think deeper.. the world is not a to b and b to a. you might as well say it's fine to punch a small fry on the street if he looks very meek, since he might not report you to the police and he can't do anything to you. but if that small fry has a gangster brother...

  13. #33

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    you have been watching too much movies.

    and you do realise, diplomacy is a very iffy thing.
    Which is what the foreign affairs people are paid to handle.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    ...if it was as simple as that, people will be pissing on singapore officials everywhere they go....
    This guy does not respect singapore's law. Do you figure he will hesitate to do that?

  14. #34

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Like the munich incident? No way. Singapore govt no guts to pull off something like that.
    Not "Munich", but Adolf Eichman style.

    But then again, how come singapore police don't know how to play punk? Officially we can't do anything to him, but unofficially there are many things you can do.

    And how much trade we do with the romulans anyway? howcome so afraid to piss them off?
    Remember Anwar Ibrahim from Malaysia? He milked his "black eye" incident for every drop and got the top cop to resign.

    Don't piss off the Romulans, or they set their Bird of Prey on us!!!

  15. #35
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    Don't piss off the Romulans, or they set their Bird of Prey on us!!!
    Dracula?
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  16. #36

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    Which is what the foreign affairs people are paid to handle.


    This guy does not respect singapore's law. Do you figure he will hesitate to do that?
    This is precisely why u weren't hired by the MFA.
    When I do right, no one remembers. When I do wrong, no one ever forgets.

  17. #37

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post

    This guy does not respect singapore's law. Do you figure he will hesitate to do that?
    well, do you see any newspaper articles reporting on a foreign diplomat pissing on singapore officials?

    no?

    there's your answer, kthxbai.

  18. #38

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Many times, just that most of it is just potshots with no real consequences. Remember the taiwan politician who said singapore is nose ****? Or indonesia habibie who coined the 'little red dot' term?

    But sometimes the consequences are more severe. Remember the suzhou industrial park incident?

  19. #39

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    Remember Anwar Ibrahim from Malaysia? He milked his "black eye" incident for every drop and got the top cop to resign.
    No need to get physical to play punk. Lots of other creative ways.

  20. #40

    Default Re: From Romania with love: The Great Escape by Dr Silviu Ionescu

    The minister has spoken

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