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Thread: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

  1. #1

    Default "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    Just to ask the expert and pro in CS. Is "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term. For years my friends and i have been using Breathing to describe the problem for most macro lens.

    But over in CS, Breathing seem like a rare and unknown term for most of us. I started to wonder whether it is a layman or technical term which I used for year. I have not tried asking in photo.net as I know there are lots of expertise here in CS.

    Oh and let us compile a list of "breathing" lens. I am interested to know whether a N200M does "breathe" actually. =)

    For those who do not understand the meaning please do some research first or restrain from posting. It is not changing length of the lens and it got nothing to do with science that a lens need oxygen.


    1. Nikon 105mm f/2.8 VR marco
    2.
    Last edited by DonnyDan; 1st January 2010 at 10:35 AM.
    D300/700/3S|14-24|24-70|70-200|17-55|16|14|24PC|28|50|85|105M|135DC|500|18-200|24-120|200-400|T11-16

  2. #2
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    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    err...the nikon af-s 105 f/2.8 micro does not breath...r u talkin abt the non-AFS version?

    normally i called it focus hunting...

    the tokina 100 f/2.8 macro, the tamron 90 f/2.8 macro
    Stirring up emotions with pics - cyliew

  3. #3
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    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    Quote Originally Posted by ijnek View Post
    err...the nikon af-s 105 f/2.8 micro does not breath...r u talkin abt the non-AFS version?

    normally i called it focus hunting...

    the tokina 100 f/2.8 macro, the tamron 90 f/2.8 macro
    Hmmm?

    Focus hunting to me is the AF unable to get a lock and hence moves back and forth trying to obtain a lock.

    Focus breathing to me is the AF adjusting my focal length while trying to obtain a lock.

    Seems like 2 different things to me.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    AF won't adjust ur focal length...
    the barrel will extend in/out when focusin depending on the focusing distance...

    i guess we more or less hv the idea...
    Stirring up emotions with pics - cyliew

  5. #5
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    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    Quote Originally Posted by ijnek View Post
    AF won't adjust ur focal length...
    the barrel will extend in/out when focusin depending on the focusing distance...

    i guess we more or less hv the idea...
    Sometimes on some lenses AF will adjust your focal length slightly throwing your composition off... This is what the TS refers to by focus breathing isn't it.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    "Focus Breathing" is a lay persons term. All it refers to is the expulsion of air from the lens as the internal elements are moved during focus.

    It's NOT a proper or recognised term inside the industry or by those who write the few proper technical manuals on Photography such as the "Manual Of Photography" aka Ilford Manual of Photography which is the bible of technical matters where photography is concerned.


    Almost any MF zoom from the 1970s through to the early 1990s suffers from the noise. Notable lenses for it that I can remember include:

    Tamron 60~300mm f3.5~5.6
    Tokina 80~200mm (f/2.8 version in particular)
    Nikkor 43~86mm f/3.5 (Nikon's worst lens ever made, none were any good)
    Nikkor 200~600 f/9.5
    Nikkor 360~1200 f/11 ED
    Nikkor 80~200 f/2.8 AIS (usually when older and slop in the mechanism)
    Nikkor 80~200 f/2.8 AFnD (not all specimins did it)
    Tokina 35~200mm (can't recall aperture, was an ATX lens)
    Nikkor 55mm Micro f/3.5 (AI, AIS)
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  7. #7

    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    FYI i am using 105 afs it does breathe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ijnek View Post
    err...the nikon af-s 105 f/2.8 micro does not breath...r u talkin abt the non-AFS version?

    normally i called it focus hunting...

    the tokina 100 f/2.8 macro, the tamron 90 f/2.8 macro
    D300/700/3S|14-24|24-70|70-200|17-55|16|14|24PC|28|50|85|105M|135DC|500|18-200|24-120|200-400|T11-16

  8. #8

    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    Thanks. So there are no other word to describe the issue so what should we call it. Or should we just stick to "Focus Breathing" to address it.

    Haha anyone know Nikon 200 Macro? Once get it, selling off my N105 afs. It is a pain to use it. Anyone agree =) LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    "Focus Breathing" is a lay persons term. All it refers to is the expulsion of air from the lens as the internal elements are moved during focus.

    It's NOT a proper or recognised term inside the industry or by those who write the few proper technical manuals on Photography such as the "Manual Of Photography" aka Ilford Manual of Photography which is the bible of technical matters where photography is concerned.


    Almost any MF zoom from the 1970s through to the early 1990s suffers from the noise. Notable lenses for it that I can remember include:

    Tamron 60~300mm f3.5~5.6
    Tokina 80~200mm (f/2.8 version in particular)
    Nikkor 43~86mm f/3.5 (Nikon's worst lens ever made, none were any good)
    Nikkor 200~600 f/9.5
    Nikkor 360~1200 f/11 ED
    Nikkor 80~200 f/2.8 AIS (usually when older and slop in the mechanism)
    Nikkor 80~200 f/2.8 AFnD (not all specimins did it)
    Tokina 35~200mm (can't recall aperture, was an ATX lens)
    Nikkor 55mm Micro f/3.5 (AI, AIS)
    D300/700/3S|14-24|24-70|70-200|17-55|16|14|24PC|28|50|85|105M|135DC|500|18-200|24-120|200-400|T11-16

  9. #9
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    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    Quote Originally Posted by DonnyDan View Post
    Thanks. So there are no other word to describe the issue so what should we call it. Or should we just stick to "Focus Breathing" to address it.

    Focus breathing is incorrect as only a sentient being has lungs and can breathe. Air leakage or expulsion of air while focusing are technically more accurate terms to describe the condition.

    Haha anyone know Nikon 200 Macro? Once get it, selling off my N105 afs. It is a pain to use it. Anyone agree =) LOL
    The 200 Micro Nikkor is a good lens, quite large and heavy though and best used with a tripod or monopod.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  10. #10

    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    LOL I know it is a good lens. Many photography site agree too. But the question is, does it "breathe". Anyone using it and can make a better review out of it. =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    The 200 Micro Nikkor is a good lens, quite large and heavy though and best used with a tripod or monopod.
    D300/700/3S|14-24|24-70|70-200|17-55|16|14|24PC|28|50|85|105M|135DC|500|18-200|24-120|200-400|T11-16

  11. #11

    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    Doesn't focus breathing refer to the changes in image size as you change the focus from near to far? Its a slight "zoom" effect that affects some prime lenses (and also zooms), read somewhere related to using video on dSLRs, doesn't really affect stills.. The explusion of air from the lens is a different thing, do correct me if I'm wrong..

  12. #12

    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    I believe you're right. First came across the term in Ken Rockwell's lens reviews, but it's unimportant for stills.

    Some references:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathing_(lens)

    http://www.fujinon.com/digitalcinema...Breathing.aspx

    http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/2485afs.htm

    Dunno if the other meaning (expulsion of air) is in widespread use -- never heard it used that way and could find no reference. Wouldn't that mean there's 'zoom breathing' as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Chan View Post
    Doesn't focus breathing refer to the changes in image size as you change the focus from near to far? Its a slight "zoom" effect that affects some prime lenses (and also zooms), read somewhere related to using video on dSLRs, doesn't really affect stills.. The explusion of air from the lens is a different thing, do correct me if I'm wrong..

  13. #13

    Default Re: "Focus Breathing" a technical or layman term

    I believe it is expulsion of air from the lens as the internal elements are moved during focus is correct too. Because Ian has made the point that it will change in focal length while focusing. I cant find much info to support his statement too.

    I have posted the question to Kenrockwell, photo.net, picturecorrect and DPS. But anyone able to support it, either from books or famous photographer.



    Quote Originally Posted by J-Chan View Post
    Doesn't focus breathing refer to the changes in image size as you change the focus from near to far? Its a slight "zoom" effect that affects some prime lenses (and also zooms), read somewhere related to using video on dSLRs, doesn't really affect stills.. The explusion of air from the lens is a different thing, do correct me if I'm wrong..
    Originally Posted by Ian

    "Focus Breathing" is a lay persons term. All it refers to is the expulsion of air from the lens as the internal elements are moved during focus.
    Last edited by DonnyDan; 3rd January 2010 at 09:18 AM.
    D300/700/3S|14-24|24-70|70-200|17-55|16|14|24PC|28|50|85|105M|135DC|500|18-200|24-120|200-400|T11-16

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