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Thread: photography skill discussions

  1. #41

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Whether its constructive or critical, depends on how you view it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    and if you think being critical is not constructive, you've closed a number of doors.....
    I only view them all as opinion. It is he, who voice the opinion, who decide to make it constructive or critical, or critically constructive.
    Last edited by lenrek; 30th December 2009 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    How many people actually "follow blindly without understanding"? Probably many, but there's always the few that actually understand the reasons for the settings. Fireworks? A huge DoF needed, that's probably all the newbies(I, in this case.) know. But how big? Why not the biggest possible? Those are questions a newbie could probably find the answer to while shooting the fireworks, by shooting at the aperture/exposure settings given, and then shooting at what settings they wish to experiment, and then finally compare the photos. Would this help them a lot faster?

    Driver's license is an analogy hard to compare, so I'll just replace it with doing math problems. By looking and studying how one does a math problem, an individual certainly can learn from it, and eventually get a chance to apply it.

    "The smart learn from their own mistakes; the wise, the others."

    Then again, I'm am like what I've said, a newbie. I haven't even gotten my camera!
    We are talking about people who barely got past knowing what aperture and shutter speed are. I find it hard to believe someone who knows how aperture and shutter speed work not being able to change settings halfway during a shoot. That's called experimenting and I certainly wouldn't want to tell them what to do and take away the fun of discovering. Instant gratification will not stay. The process of producing an image in just as important(if not more important) than the actual image itself. Like you said, "The smart learn from their own mistakes; the wise, the others." Asking about settings is hardly learning.

    Maths was something which gave me hell because I sucked at it. This teacher came along and told me to understand how each and every formula was derived instead of just applying them to solve the problem. I made it in the end.

    Perhaps you should get yourself a camera and feel how its like.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by lenrek View Post
    I only view them all as opinion. It is he, who voice the opinion, who decide to make it constructive or critical, or critically constructive.
    Ok, I've decided. Its constructive. You view it other way. My condolences.....

  4. #44

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    We are talking about people who barely got past knowing what aperture and shutter speed are. I find it hard to believe someone who knows how aperture and shutter speed work not being able to change settings halfway during a shoot. That's called experimenting and I certainly wouldn't want to tell them what to do and take away the fun of discovering. Instant gratification will not stay. The process of producing an image in just as important(if not more important) than the actual image itself. Like you said, "The smart learn from their own mistakes; the wise, the others." Asking about settings is hardly learning.

    Maths was something which gave me hell because I sucked at it. This teacher came along and told me to understand how each and every formula was derived instead of just applying them to solve the problem. I made it in the end.

    Perhaps you should get yourself a camera and feel how its like.
    I guess I've lurked long enough here to see many of these people creating threads and asking all sorts of weird and funny questions. My point about the learning was comparing the shots taken with the settings the individual wanted, to the one that was suggested and then spot the difference. And I guess we both feel the same way about them, albeit probably a little more dislike from my side, since my current mindset is: "IF YOU DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CAMERAS, THEN WHY ARE YOU GETTING ONE?" since I haven't got my camera yet.

    T'was supposed to be mine on this Monday, but who knew everyone was getting a 500D, which caused everywhere to be out of stock? Now I've to wait for next year to shoot Christmas/CNY lightings. School would've already reopened by the time I get my DSLR, so learning process is going to take a LOOOOOOOOONG time. But no rush there, no rush.
    Last edited by Linerax; 30th December 2009 at 09:40 PM.

  5. #45
    Deregistered wootsk's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    How many people actually "follow blindly without understanding"? Probably many, but there's always the few that actually understand the reasons for the settings. Fireworks? A huge DoF needed, that's probably all the newbies(I, in this case.) know. But how big? Why not the biggest possible? Those are questions a newbie could probably find the answer to while shooting the fireworks, by shooting at the aperture/exposure settings given, and then shooting at what settings they wish to experiment, and then finally compare the photos. Would this help them a lot faster?

    Driver's license is an analogy hard to compare, so I'll just replace it with doing math problems. By looking and studying how one does a math problem, an individual certainly can learn from it, and eventually get a chance to apply it.

    "The smart learn from their own mistakes; the wise, the others."

    Then again, I'm am like what I've said, a newbie. I haven't even gotten my camera!
    Cool, so the firework shooter actually holds such a lens with so far the focus distance. Wonder which lens he use. But I sometime do see people shooting firework in a very interesting manner. They read the book instruction clearly, they know the F-stop and shutter speed from book, they know that the DSLR must be mounted on a tripod. But they still on the AF for don't know what reason. I did kindly told one of the shooter once that he can set to infinite focus distance and off the AF as all he did is making his camera to focus the sky which the camera will focus in and focus out in all the shots wasting time, chance and battery. He just gave me the "hu?" face and continue shooting thinking some noob told him wrong stuff outside his guidebook...
    Last edited by wootsk; 30th December 2009 at 09:52 PM.

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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by tehzeh View Post
    erm don't think so because I can get a lot of informations on the settings like the white balance for sunset or sunrise etc. there are tons of useful tutorials on google... and the instructions are very simple to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Sorry, I didn't quite get you there.
    Haha, you said that those questions on sunset etc require experimentation right? So without experimentation, it is inevitable for these questions to appear right? But I don't think so. Why? Because there are a lot of guidelines/tutorials on the net that teach you which setting like white balance/aperture is the most suitable for sunset photos. So it doesn't really require experimentation..

    IMO

  7. #47
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by tehzeh View Post
    Haha, you said that those questions on sunset etc require experimentation right? So without experimentation, it is inevitable for these questions to appear right? But I don't think so. Why? Because there are a lot of guidelines/tutorials on the net that teach you which setting like white balance/aperture is the most suitable for sunset photos. So it doesn't really require experimentation..

    IMO
    Experimentation with some knowledge is very critical in the process of establishing your own directions in photography. Further, the circumstances in which those guides and tutorials were written in will most probably be different from your situation.

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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    With all the information I see very informative.

    To the newbies if you are at home try to shoot a moving fan. And play around with your shutter, aperture and ISO which has been mentioned by our CS Bros here.

    You can see the difference with different setting.

  9. #49
    Member eosandy's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Back in the day of film SLRs... yala yala yala yawn...

    Anyway, I got a DSLR because I want to control how the light enters the cam and hence how the picture is recorded.

    1. If you want full control, get a DSLR.
    2. Learn the controls.

    Otherwise get a P&S or leave the DSLR on P mode.
    Learning DSLR control http://stormtrigger.blogspot.com/

  10. #50

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Learning is not just about reading and copying. Trying, practicing and experiment is part of the learning and discovery process. The difference between reading and experiencing is completely different thing. For instance, able to experience a 21MP picture vs 10MP will give a more accurate explanation of their differences bec reading don't tell you.

    Experimenting people often learns things in very high detail because during the process, they discover the faults while read copy don't. An example is the myth that one copies from another without knowing why.

    But having said that, experiment only comes after reading. Not that experiment is not good but prior reading cuts the test scope shorter. And reading is a cheaper means than to buy and test. For instance, only a person who owns a FF camera can tell you the real stuff, web readers can't.

    A person who takes good and nice pictures will not know why another person cannot is because he/she can't even explain how himself/herself reached this stage, just like typing. So the ability to decipher how a person learn is also a field of study. E.g when someone compare a compact and a dSLR, there is no point talking of the later anymore bec the former is his/her primarily choice, just that they wanted to know if there is an inbetween. Many won't understand why unless you learn what is mentality.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Experimentation with some knowledge is very critical in the process of establishing your own directions in photography. Further, the circumstances in which those guides and tutorials were written in will most probably be different from your situation.
    Yes, the circumstances will be different so it can only be used as a guideline.

    Linerax: ok i think the previous explanation wasnt really clear... what i was trying to say was that there are alot of guide on the internet and those questions might not be due to lack of experiment but lack of 'diligence'... IMO

  12. #52
    Senior Member madmartian's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Sunrise/sunset/night/day wise, those questions are probably due to lack of experiment, but you can't really experiment for firework shots, can you?
    Why not? If you do your homework, read up before you go shoot fireworks, you can experiment the 1st few minutes of the show & do a quick check on the lcd. Then if not enough, do experimental shots for the whole 20 mins or so. If not, buy some sparklers to experiment with. Still cannot, come back next year to shoot. If still cannot, do this Haha...........
    Take the shot!

  13. #53
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Like what you said, you could tell us(the newbies) all the settings but the results we produce would most probably differ, due to the lack of experience. However, this would work as a sort of aided experimentation, no?
    This is the point that's bugging me a bit.
    If a newbie knew the basics about aperture, shutter speed, white balance, ISO, etc, he/she would not need to even ask what settings were used.

    For example, you know that depth-of-field is influenced by focusing distance and aperture.
    So you want to take a photo of your other half in front of the esplanade waterfront, and have the buildings in the cbd (all the way across the marina bay) as sharp as possible.
    Within 3 or 4 shots, you should be able to get a technically-decent outcome by moving forward/backward and/or adjusting the aperture. But to ask someone the settings beforehand might actually be detrimental. That person wouldn't know what focal length and camera-subject distance in which you composed your shot.

    Similarly to get the smooth glassy effect on the water surface, you will need a slow shutter speed. And from basics, a long shutter speed means more light entering. How to compensate? With the basic knowledge, it's easy to do. Without, it's just like stabbing in the dark.
    Exploring! :)

  14. #54

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by tehzeh View Post
    Yes, the circumstances will be different so it can only be used as a guideline.

    Linerax: ok i think the previous explanation wasnt really clear... what i was trying to say was that there are alot of guide on the internet and those questions might not be due to lack of experiment but lack of 'diligence'... IMO
    Oh! That statement is one I certainly concur with!

    Quote Originally Posted by madmartian View Post
    Why not? If you do your homework, read up before you go shoot fireworks, you can experiment the 1st few minutes of the show & do a quick check on the lcd. Then if not enough, do experimental shots for the whole 20 mins or so. If not, buy some sparklers to experiment with. Still cannot, come back next year to shoot. If still cannot, do this Haha...........
    My point in the statement was just to point out that firework scenes aren't as common as sunrise/sunset scenes which occur on a daily basis, which means less chances to experiment! Sparklers are too different because of their difference in size and the distance between the camera and them, compared to fireworks, but yes I do get your point about experimenting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    This is the point that's bugging me a bit.
    If a newbie knew the basics about aperture, shutter speed, white balance, ISO, etc, he/she would not need to even ask what settings were used.

    For example, you know that depth-of-field is influenced by focusing distance and aperture.
    So you want to take a photo of your other half in front of the esplanade waterfront, and have the buildings in the cbd (all the way across the marina bay) as sharp as possible.
    Within 3 or 4 shots, you should be able to get a technically-decent outcome by moving forward/backward and/or adjusting the aperture. But to ask someone the settings beforehand might actually be detrimental. That person wouldn't know what focal length and camera-subject distance in which you composed your shot.

    Similarly to get the smooth glassy effect on the water surface, you will need a slow shutter speed. And from basics, a long shutter speed means more light entering. How to compensate? With the basic knowledge, it's easy to do. Without, it's just like stabbing in the dark.
    As I receive more and more replies, I'm starting to find myself contradicting, but seeing how many "What camera should I buy?" threads are appearing more often now with majority of them not willing to just scroll through the threads present in the current Newbies Section, it's no surprise that there are people whom actually buy a DSLR without having done any prior research.

    That(asking of questions that displays a lack of intellect, or diligence for that matter), has been pointed out to me by Kit which I agreed with him, is something I hope that I will never do.
    Last edited by Linerax; 31st December 2009 at 01:36 PM.

  15. #55
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    that's good...!
    That's a start.
    Exploring! :)

  16. #56
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by blurry80 View Post
    you may start experimenting base on this.

    Dark image o----------------------------> Bright
    Low iso (High Image quality) ---------------High iso (low image quality)
    High shutter speed (freeeze image) --------Low Shutter speed (high motion blur)
    High aperture (high depth of field) ---------Low aperture value (Shallow Depth of field)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To control depth of field

    Shallow dof o---------------------------> high dof
    Long Focal length of lens (85mm) ----------Short focal length of lens(18mm)
    Large sensor (5D is here) ------------------Small Sensor (Compact cameras belong here)
    Low aperture value (F1.8) -----------------High Aperture value (F8)
    Small distance to subject ------------------Great distance to subject.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    thx pal for ur great and useful informations

  17. #57
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lens Fidelity View Post
    There are 3 elements that are the major components in deciding how an image turns out. These three are aperture, shutter speed and ISO.

    Aperture refers to the opening of the lens. Simply put, its the hole in the lens that allows light through into the camera's sensor.

    Naturally, a larger a hole/aperture, the more light passes through, allowing the image to be brighter, ceteris paribus.
    Conversely, the smaller the hole/aperture, less light passes through, hence image would be darker.

    The aperture is also used to control something else. It is known as the Depth of Field (DOF). Depth of Field refers to the extent of the area in an image to be in focus.

    The relation between the aperture and the DOF is as such, the bigger the aperture, the less subjects in the image to be in focus.
    For instance, using a big aperture, focusing on a subject in the foreground will render the background blur.
    If a small aperture is used, then the background will become clearer.

    However, how do we go about classifying the sizes of the apertures? This is because at various focal length, different amount of light will hit the sensor. The same diameter of the aperture for a wide angle lens, will have more light hitting the sensor than a telephoto lens.

    To relate them, something called the F- number was created. This F-number enables an image to remain at the same exposure (provided the ISO and shutter speed remains unchanged), regardless of the focal length used. The F-number is calculated as such,

    F-number = focal length/ diameter of aperture.

    Examples of F-numbers are F1.2, 1.8, 5.6...
    If relating to the above formula, the smaller the F-number, the bigger the size of the aperture. You would do good to remember this.
    thx pal for ur great and useful informations

  18. #58
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    How about reading the sticky threads and Articles and Guides here?
    Photography Notes for Newbies - the very basics
    Guide to DSLR Photography - More than the basics, advanced guide including equipment and other topics
    Your camera manual - most manuals have a basic guide about the 3 main elements: ISO, shutter speed, aperture.
    Next let's bury your illusion that there are some standard settings. Depending in existing conditions, your available gear and the intended outcome (how the pic should like like) you will need to think and decide how to setup the camera. No camera has the ability to read your mind (maybe in 10..15 years) and even fancy stuffs like face recognition cannot replace your brainwork / homework. For the camera all light is just electronic charge at the sensor, only in your mind it makes sense as a picture.
    If you are a slow learner (nothing bad about that) then you can consider attending a basic photography course. Guided learning might be more beneficial.
    Happy reading, enjoy shooting
    thx for all the members that had contributed those useful threads for me as a newbie for photography :X thx alot all the informations you all had contributed are very useful and great! thx alot!

  19. #59

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    definitely agreed. there's nothing like what setting you used at night or for sunset etc. you just gotta experiment it as you go.

  20. #60
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Just keep at it....

    Keep shooting and learning. You'll figure it better as you keep practising...
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

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