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Thread: photography skill discussions

  1. #21
    Senior Member madmartian's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I still don't understand why newbies persist with asking questions like "what settings should I use for night/day/sunrise/sunset/fireworks shots?".
    That is because they don't do their homework. So I wonder why the manufacturer ship the manuals with the camera. They should do away with it & maybe the camera will cost less .....pun intended
    Take the shot!

  2. #22

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I still don't understand why newbies persist with asking questions like "what settings should I use for night/day/sunrise/sunset/fireworks shots?".
    Sunrise/sunset/night/day wise, those questions are probably due to lack of experiment, but you can't really experiment for firework shots, can you?

  3. #23

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by madmartian View Post
    That is because they don't do their homework. So I wonder why the manufacturer ship the manuals with the camera. They should do away with it & maybe the camera will cost less .....pun intended
    hahahaha, u wish ah

  4. #24
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Sunrise/sunset/night/day wise, those questions are probably due to lack of experiment, but you can't really experiment for firework shots, can you?
    Rule #1 for experimentation - Never be too precious about your work. Its never a big deal to come back next year and try again rather than expecting to be spoon fed and learn nothing.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    And really, I can tell you all the settings but without any actual experience, can you produce the same results?

    If only photography is as simple as pushing a few buttons and flicking a few dials........

  6. #26
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Sunrise/sunset/night/day wise, those questions are probably due to lack of experiment, but you can't really experiment for firework shots, can you?
    erm don't think so because I can get a lot of informations on the settings like the white balance for sunset or sunrise etc. there are tons of useful tutorials on google... and the instructions are very simple to understand.

  7. #27

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Sunrise/sunset/night/day wise, those questions are probably due to lack of experiment, but you can't really experiment for firework shots, can you?
    It is possible if persistent enough, new year countdown, NDP previews, actual day etc. There will be big scale and small scale fireworks during the whole year, just have to do homework and find out where and when. Even without fireworks, you can even practice the black card technique on night traffic etc..

  8. #28
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Sunrise/sunset/night/day wise, those questions are probably due to lack of experiment, but you can't really experiment for firework shots, can you?
    if someone understood how the light meter functions, they'd know that using p mode to take fireworks would be futile, for example. This was asked in another thread.
    If they'd actually read the manual, they'd also have known that bulb mode is not selectable like P A S M. This is part of the basic knowledge. I actually think it's much easier to grasp the basics of photography than, say... law, or medicine, or accountancy.
    Exploring! :)

  9. #29

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    if someone understood how the light meter functions, they'd know that using p mode to take fireworks would be futile, for example. This was asked in another thread.
    If they'd actually read the manual, they'd also have known that bulb mode is not selectable like P A S M. This is part of the basic knowledge. I actually think it's much easier to grasp the basics of photography than, say... law, or medicine, or accountancy.
    We were all newbie once, don't be so critical.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Diavonex's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Maybe TS should get a PNS camera; comes with many mode e.g. snow, fireworks etc.


  11. #31
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I actually think it's much easier to grasp the basics of photography than, say... law, or medicine, or accountancy.
    yeah. and it is much easier to play with light than to play with sound (e.g. instruments).

  12. #32
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by lenrek View Post
    We were all newbie once, don't be so critical.
    I actually wished that I had met someone that critical when I was starting out.....

  13. #33
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by lenrek View Post
    We were all newbie once, don't be so critical.
    well, perhaps it's a result of being asked what I view as ridiculous questions.
    When I was totally green and blur (not saying that I'm pro now or anything...), I always took photos with an inquisitive mind, but always determined to find out on my own as much as possible.

    I started in the days of film, and had to religiously record down my aperture, shutter speed AND metering value in a small jotter book. Only after comparing with the printouts some time later could I form some conclusion about how my camera metering worked.
    After a brief hiatus, I bought a prosumer (Lumix FZ10), and I got up to speed so much quicker, thanks to the immediacy of the feedback.

    It's certainly MUCH MUCH easier to self-learn photography nowadays, not to mention much more affordable too.

    To be honest, there's no excuse for any reasonably well-qualified individual (thus implying some intelligence) with an advanced PnS/prosumer/DSLR to pick up the basic skills/knowledge on photography.
    Last edited by ZerocoolAstra; 30th December 2009 at 08:22 PM.
    Exploring! :)

  14. #34

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    I actually wished that I had met someone that critical when I was starting out.....
    I would prefer a constructive opinion than a critical opinion.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by lenrek View Post
    I would prefer a constructive opinion than a critical opinion.
    Whether its constructive or critical, depends on how you view it.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    and if you think being critical is not constructive, you've closed a number of doors.....

  17. #37

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Rule #1 for experimentation - Never be too precious about your work. Its never a big deal to come back next year and try again rather than expecting to be spoon fed and learn nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    And really, I can tell you all the settings but without any actual experience, can you produce the same results?

    If only photography is as simple as pushing a few buttons and flicking a few dials........
    Like what you said, you could tell us(the newbies) all the settings but the results we produce would most probably differ, due to the lack of experience. However, this would work as a sort of aided experimentation, no?

    As much as we can go back and try again every other time, fireworks aren't as common as sunrise and sunsets which occur on a daily basis and having a aide by knowing the range of settings which should be used for fireworks certainly helps in achieving the results one actually wants instead of achieving other people's results (seeing how different people have different ways of portraying) faster wouldn't you agree? Then again when that time comes, will the photographer have more credit, or will majority of the credit be given to the one who gave him the settings?

    Then again, there are newbies who create a thread with the mindset you mentioned - "I've got the settings down, all I've to do is just press the button when the fireworks appear, and voila!"

    Quote Originally Posted by tehzeh View Post
    erm don't think so because I can get a lot of informations on the settings like the white balance for sunset or sunrise etc. there are tons of useful tutorials on google... and the instructions are very simple to understand.
    Sorry, I didn't quite get you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    if someone understood how the light meter functions, they'd know that using p mode to take fireworks would be futile, for example. This was asked in another thread.
    If they'd actually read the manual, they'd also have known that bulb mode is not selectable like P A S M. This is part of the basic knowledge. I actually think it's much easier to grasp the basics of photography than, say... law, or medicine, or accountancy.
    That's one category of newbies I certainly don't wish to fall into!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    well, perhaps it's a result of being asked what I view as ridiculous questions.
    When I was totally green and blur (not saying that I'm pro now or anything...), I always took photos with an inquisitive mind, but always determined to find out on my own as much as possible.

    I started in the days of film, and had to religiously record down my aperture, shutter speed AND metering value in a small jotter book. Only after comparing with the printouts some time later could I form some conclusion about how my camera metering worked.
    After a brief hiatus, I bought a prosumer (Lumix FZ10), and I got up to speed so much quicker, thanks to the immediacy of the feedback.

    It's certainly MUCH MUCH easier to self-learn photography nowadays, not to mention much more affordable too.

    To be honest, there's no excuse for any reasonably well-qualified individual (thus implying some intelligence) with an advanced PnS/prosumer/DSLR to pick up the basic skills/knowledge on photography.
    With the low-costs of DSLRs nowadays, it's no surprise that many are picking up photography, whether with the right or wrong interests. Some are only here for the momentary thrill and will go away in due time, while others are here to seek help in something that they truly hope to be able to take pride in.

  18. #38

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by lenrek View Post
    I would prefer a constructive opinion than a critical opinion.
    A critical opinion would be when someone tells you that you're doing this, this and this wrong.

    A constructive opinion is when someone tells you that you're doing this, this and this wrong, but actually guides you as to how to fix it.

    Both helps, just that the former requires more effort on your part.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Linerax View Post
    Like what you said, you could tell us(the newbies) all the settings but the results we produce would most probably differ, due to the lack of experience. However, this would work as a sort of aided experimentation, no?

    As much as we can go back and try again every other time, fireworks aren't as common as sunrise and sunsets which occur on a daily basis and having a aide by knowing the range of settings which should be used for fireworks certainly helps in achieving the results one actually wants instead of achieving other people's results (seeing how different people have different ways of portraying) faster wouldn't you agree? Then again when that time comes, will the photographer have more credit, or will majority of the credit be given to the one who gave him the settings?

    Then again, there are newbies who create a thread with the mindset you mentioned - "I've got the settings down, all I've to do is just press the button when the fireworks appear, and voila!"
    Blindly following settings without understanding them is hardly what I'd call experimentation, like it or not.

    Unfortunately, instant gratification is a novelty which so many uninitiated ones dwell in immensely. If you don't start from the basic of things, seeing how other people work(and they do work differently and do I really have to mention that not all are doing the correct thing?) will only throw you into deeper confusion.

    Did you get your driver's license by just looking at how other people drive? I would think the basic theory is the first thing any drivers would lay their hands on.
    Last edited by Kit; 30th December 2009 at 09:04 PM.

  20. #40

    Default Re: photography skill discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Blindly following settings without understanding them is hardly what I'd call experimentation, like it or not.

    Unfortunately, instant gratification is a novelty which so many uninitiated ones dwell in immensely. If you don't start from the basic of things, seeing how other people work(and they do work differently and do I really have to mention that not all are doing the correct thing?) will only throw you into deeper confusion.

    Did you get your driver's license by just looking at how other people drive? I would think the basic theory is the first thing any drivers would lay their hands on.
    How many people actually "follow blindly without understanding"? Probably many, but there's always the few that actually understand the reasons for the settings. Fireworks? A huge DoF needed, that's probably all the newbies(I, in this case.) know. But how big? Why not the biggest possible? Those are questions a newbie could probably find the answer to while shooting the fireworks, by shooting at the aperture/exposure settings given, and then shooting at what settings they wish to experiment, and then finally compare the photos. Would this help them a lot faster?

    Driver's license is an analogy hard to compare, so I'll just replace it with doing math problems. By looking and studying how one does a math problem, an individual certainly can learn from it, and eventually get a chance to apply it.

    "The smart learn from their own mistakes; the wise, the others."

    Then again, I'm am like what I've said, a newbie. I haven't even gotten my camera!

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