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Thread: Where are we heading now?

  1. #1

    Default Where are we heading now?

    In recent times, we have seen many treads and topics about how the newcomers are spoiling the photography markets in Singapore. This issue has been made more prominent in the last few years with the drop is camera prices, increase in consumer range DSLRs and lenses, as well as the common misconception that Photography means easy money cos all it takes is to click the shutter in and edit the images in the most artistic manner to earn a quick buck.

    But.

    It made me ask myself why the new comers or "now called GWC" have this kind of an impression that its easy to make photography into a choice of career. The answer i came up with is because, many people at the professional level have been giving the newcomers the wrong impression about the industry, as well as feeding them the wrong attitudes on practices and quality that should be upheld if the choice of career is picked to be that of a photographic nature.

    This is coupled with the many who starts calling themselves professionals with perhaps one experience of shooting for a friend or cousin who so happened to be in need of a photographer and decides to scrimge on hiring one, by making use of their own relatives and/or friends.

    I am not trying to start a war here with this post, But it will be good to understand how and what the new comers are really thinking when they are at the crossroads of making the decision to go fulltime or professional. It may even be good if some interested new individuals would like to have a coffee session with me, to talk about why they would like to join this profession and allow me to share a little with them on what i have been through the last few years.

    Looking forward to some replies from the incoming crowd.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    I am a photographer for around 2 years plus. I will not declare myself a professional nor anytime in the near future. I have done some professional work, as second photographer or just a photographer's assistant, so I do know at least a tiny bit the industry. Okay, I admit, those work are simple, taking passport photos, class photos, and taking images at kindergarten concerts but they are still considered part of the realm of the industry, despite its rather low rank in the hierarchy of assignments. I still wish to be photographer in the future despite seeing some of the ugly stuff. Why?

    Firstly, I believe in the power of photography. "A photo today, memories for decades" is something that I sincerely feel about the stillness of images. I wish for people, to be able to have images, with quality that impact them. Most importantly, I want to be the one to deliver it. I am especially impressed with photojournalism which tells a story with photographs, bringing the world stories that they ought to know.

    Secondly,photography is my passion. I love it. What could be better than doing what you love as a living?

    Thirdly, I do not wish to die a "second death" as stated in Mitch Albom's book "have a little faith". What is this second death? It happens after you die. People begin to forget you, who you are, what you did, and simply your existence. Through my ideal dream job of being a photographer, I want my images to live on, continuing to leave deep memories for decades. They may not know me, but if they know the image, it leaves me connected. Like photos, such as the raising of the American flag in Iwo Jima by a Joe Rosenthal and Eddie Adams's "Execution of a Viet Cong Guerrilla". The photographers are probably not remembered but their photos leave a mark on Earth, stating that they were here.

    The above stated reasons may sound naive and downright unrealistic but they are representation of why I would like to be a photographer and I believe I have every right to think that way. I will never join the industry because its an easy job or there is big money to be earned. So, may the veterans in the field, tell me, will I ever achieve what I hope to do if I turn professional?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lens Fidelity View Post
    The above stated reasons may sound naive and downright unrealistic but they are representation of why I would like to be a photographer and I believe I have every right to think that way. I will never join the industry because its an easy job or there is big money to be earned. So, may the veterans in the field, tell me, will I ever achieve what I hope to do if I turn professional?
    Making it in to the ranks of the immortals is as much a matter of pure luck as talent. Being in the right place for the right shot that strikes the chord with the general public is the key. Many highly talented photographers never get that break no matter what they think or achieve.

    Some do make it to immortal status by pure sales pitch (chutzpah) such as the IMHO contemptable and highly untalented Annie L from New York whose work always underwhelms me no end.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lens Fidelity View Post
    I am a photographer for around 2 years plus. I will not declare myself a professional nor anytime in the near future. I have done some professional work, as second photographer or just a photographer's assistant, so I do know at least a tiny bit the industry. Okay, I admit, those work are simple, taking passport photos, class photos, and taking images at kindergarten concerts but they are still considered part of the realm of the industry, despite its rather low rank in the hierarchy of assignments. I still wish to be photographer in the future despite seeing some of the ugly stuff. Why?

    Firstly, I believe in the power of photography. "A photo today, memories for decades" is something that I sincerely feel about the stillness of images. I wish for people, to be able to have images, with quality that impact them. Most importantly, I want to be the one to deliver it. I am especially impressed with photojournalism which tells a story with photographs, bringing the world stories that they ought to know.

    Secondly,photography is my passion. I love it. What could be better than doing what you love as a living?

    Thirdly, I do not wish to die a "second death" as stated in Mitch Albom's book "have a little faith". What is this second death? It happens after you die. People begin to forget you, who you are, what you did, and simply your existence. Through my ideal dream job of being a photographer, I want my images to live on, continuing to leave deep memories for decades. They may not know me, but if they know the image, it leaves me connected. Like photos, such as the raising of the American flag in Iwo Jima by a Joe Rosenthal and Eddie Adams's "Execution of a Viet Cong Guerrilla". The photographers are probably not remembered but their photos leave a mark on Earth, stating that they were here.

    The above stated reasons may sound naive and downright unrealistic but they are representation of why I would like to be a photographer and I believe I have every right to think that way. I will never join the industry because its an easy job or there is big money to be earned. So, may the veterans in the field, tell me, will I ever achieve what I hope to do if I turn professional?
    I fully understand where you are coming from. As such, i was in the exact same position as you some 6 odd years ago. But then we need to be on the realistic side of life first. The means of survival is probably a very very tough road already, but what is tougher is the means to be able to survive and stand out as an artist. A starving artist is one of the keys to sucess but an artist starving is just a key to failure. There are conditions you will need to satisfy first before becoming "Immortalised", and one of the greatest is survival. So, my question back to you is, will you ever achieve the ability to survive first before you achieve your hopes, if you turn professional? Bear in mind the road to being a professional is not just about photography, but the means to survive, market and even to care for a business.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    This is an interesting topic. I'm really new to photography.

    you know... two things came to my mind when i read this thread. Pilots and Magic. Let me try to explain a bit more.

    Both Flying a plane and performing Magic commanded respect in the past because people generally found both the jobs to be 'difficult' and shrouded in mystery. Not many can join the ranks of pilots and become a Magician. But with technology (internet, youtube, wiki) - people were given a chance to demystify the art of flying (and the piloting career... sit down for hours doing nothin, plane can autopilot actually) and uncover the secrets (some really simple apparently) behind some of the magic tricks. It wasn't that difficult after all.

    Same here for photography. Perhaps for the longest time, it wasn't easy to understand concepts of photography and its left and reserved to the privileged few to hold the title of 'professional photographer'. Afterall, i can imagine how many rolls of film one must have to suffer through to fully understand apertures, shutters and ISOs. Today, we can reasonably understand the concept through youtube and trial and error on a DSLR. The learning curve is not as steep as before.

    Naturally, a small section of veteran photographers may feel threatened or even dismiss the entry of this new wave of photographers. Its not easy to accept that a newcomer may be able to bridge that gap in terms of quality within such a short time. Nothing substitutes experience, they say.

    I agree. But lets also acknowledge that the new age of acquiring knowledge + the tools available simply means that for any trade,art,profession out there - the process of acquiring skills and knowledge has just become simpler and will naturally mean people can come in and do our job at a fraction of the price. (The World Is Flat | Thomas L. Friedman)


    Ultimately, the one who decides are consumers. As long as the market accepts newcomers,regards them as professionals and loves the quality of their work, we can't cite that as "spoiling the market". Instead, the challenge is for one to constantly innovate and upgrade, in a bid to differentiate and elevate themselves over the rest.



    just my two cents worth sir, and i certainly don't mean any disrespect to the real professionals out there. But if i have inadvertently offended anyone, my humble apologies.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Whether I will ever achieve up to that standard, beyond professional league, one that leaves behind something, I do not know. I mean, who knows the future? In addition, as Ian has pointed out, there is also the element of luck or would I say, the opportunities available.

    One thing can be for sure, I am trying my best to find a way towards it. How? I guess my first step is learning from the professionals. Not only the basic technicalities of how an excellent photo is being taken one after the other but also how to deliver, package and most importantly, how to retain a hold on clients in a ever competitive industry. Be it providing the personal touch, having unique services, I want to know it all or as much as possible.

    I am 18, entering the National Service next year. I have 2 years to reconsider, to re-analyze my life's options. I may truly only make my decision after these 2 years. Photography is really an industry that is tough to remain at the top for long, as it is something of a creative industry, where you sell ideas. Ideas may one day run out.

    Maybe after 2 years, I may settle for something more stable and "reliable" such as jobs in the accounting, finance sectors. At least, I earn a monthly salary as opposed to setting up my own photography business with fluctuating incomes.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Thats a very good point that you have brought up. In fact i feel that the consumers have agreed with this point a way longer time before we as professionals have. However the disillusioned consumers have also been fed the (to a certain degree of what false) information on what is value, in terms of what they have paid for. That being only one point in the discussion. The other point that i feel strongly about is. With the advancement in technology and the ability to increase and heightened one's learning curve, would it equate to the ability of a profession who has say been in the industry for the last 10 years? As magicians and pilots have evolved, so have photographers. One of the huge difference that seperates the then and how is the 10 years of ability to deal with situations and knowledge on how to survive through time.

    Threat by the new comers is inevitable. But perhaps it is also high time that the different levels of service providers started sharing the means of good practice and proper guideline to ensure the general survival of everyone from low-high end industry?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lens Fidelity View Post
    Whether I will ever achieve up to that standard, beyond professional league, one that leaves behind something, I do not know. I mean, who knows the future? In addition, as Ian has pointed out, there is also the element of luck or would I say, the opportunities available.

    One thing can be for sure, I am trying my best to find a way towards it. How? I guess my first step is learning from the professionals. Not only the basic technicalities of how an excellent photo is being taken one after the other but also how to deliver, package and most importantly, how to retain a hold on clients in a ever competitive industry. Be it providing the personal touch, having unique services, I want to know it all or as much as possible.

    I am 18, entering the National Service next year. I have 2 years to reconsider, to re-analyze my life's options. I may truly only make my decision after these 2 years. Photography is really an industry that is tough to remain at the top for long, as it is something of a creative industry, where you sell ideas. Ideas may one day run out.

    Maybe after 2 years, I may settle for something more stable and "reliable" such as jobs in the accounting, finance sectors. At least, I earn a monthly salary as opposed to setting up my own photography business with fluctuating incomes.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    As prodigal roommate has commented, the learning curve has become less steep but I think I would have to point out certain aspects of photography that really transcends beyond what camera settings and the knowledge about photography that one knows.

    What I mean to say is probably skills that are not so obvious such as directing a model or knowing when to press the trigger in a soccer match. This things can be learned quickly with the advent of technology, but to put into practice is another story. I know of a wedding photographer whose photos are not very excellent, not much post-processing done but definitely of decent quality, some are maybe excellent.

    He don't stand out but why do I find clients who return to him, clients who recommend more people to him? I guess its just him and his "soft" skills. I hear that he is very easy to work with, and you will have fun in shoots with him as your photographer. He once took off from his daily doses of weddings, and shot my class photos. Just something that spans less than an hour, with so many people, I had fun, but most importantly, I felt at ease.

    We deal with customers, aim to make them happy and hence, I feel that besides the photos, there are still other various aspects to consider.

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    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Very Interesting topics.

    I am 35 been in photography for many years now. Only recently joined clubsnap to Mix around. Some do have Negative and Positive thoughts.

    To me photography is an Art. Anyone with creativity can be in the Market regardless of what camera you used which you can take great photo's out of it. Doesn't mean I used high End DLSR camera my photo is much more greater than people who used a lower end one.

    So it all depends on the marketing and value for money to the Client. Another point to take note that you can now design a beautiful Coffee table just by a click of a mouse on the internet. Thus we need to have another strategy. My greatest challenge are the Pro's on Photoshop they can do wonders with the photo they taken.

    Just my 2 cents

  11. #11

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    I think the hardest thing about photography is the intangible nature of being able to get a "moment" or an expression from someone.
    But it's so intangible that people need to be educated on it.

    So one way is to play up the importance and intangible nature of photography "oh it's so excellent and the reason you can't tell how excellent it is is because you are ignorant". This is the way a lot of other fields have approached the problem of intangibility (look at luxury brands, look at designer haircuts, look at upscale fashion designers)

    Couple that with effusive praise in magazines to educate people on why a certain photo is so great


    raise the value of photography that way
    but I don't see it happening. It would be nice if photographers actually got together and figured something out, like the way the wedding photographers did

  12. #12

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Chris started a very interesting topic.

    Being a professional myself, it is rather more business than photography if you would like to survive the journey. Started doing the business about 2 years ago in Singapore, it is very different the way how business operate here as compared to Sydney, Australia which I previously in.

    By business, I don't mean finding any ways to get the jobs. It is much more than that. It is about getting the right job that you love to shoot at the price you would like to charge.

    Photography is always fun but when comes to running the business, many fall short of that.

    Low end market is the market that you don't want to compete in, because no matter how low one charge, you won't be surprise that there is a even lower charge from others.

    The thing is, if someone hold a full time job that provides for them and have some left for savings, their definition about how much to make from photography is different, some are happy with perhaps a couple hundreds more because it is extra and more importantly they love to shoot.

    Competition is always there, but it will be crazy to compete in pricing as there will be no end to it.

    If you can't differentiate your work, then there is no reason except $$$ that is the selling point. If $$$ is the selling point, you are in trouble.

    The direction now is that most people will try their best to go into photography market and make some money out of it for very short terms and there will be massive market that think this way.

    As working pro, I don't think this is something that we should be worry about as I believe most establish photographer has their own clientele that they could serve and hopefully their client finds the service (I mean total service from A to Z) suits their needs, they will keep coming back.

    Wedding photography is still huge market... but competitive one.

    Well that's what I feel anyway.

    Regards,

    Hart

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    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Chris started a very interesting topic.

    Being a professional myself, it is rather more business than photography if you would like to survive the journey. Started doing the business about 2 years ago in Singapore, it is very different the way how business operate here as compared to Sydney, Australia which I previously in.

    By business, I don't mean finding any ways to get the jobs. It is much more than that. It is about getting the right job that you love to shoot at the price you would like to charge.

    Photography is always fun but when comes to running the business, many fall short of that.

    Low end market is the market that you don't want to compete in, because no matter how low one charge, you won't be surprise that there is a even lower charge from others.

    The thing is, if someone hold a full time job that provides for them and have some left for savings, their definition about how much to make from photography is different, some are happy with perhaps a couple hundreds more because it is extra and more importantly they love to shoot.

    Competition is always there, but it will be crazy to compete in pricing as there will be no end to it.

    If you can't differentiate your work, then there is no reason except $$$ that is the selling point. If $$$ is the selling point, you are in trouble.

    The direction now is that most people will try their best to go into photography market and make some money out of it for very short terms and there will be massive market that think this way.

    As working pro, I don't think this is something that we should be worry about as I believe most establish photographer has their own clientele that they could serve and hopefully their client finds the service (I mean total service from A to Z) suits their needs, they will keep coming back.

    Wedding photography is still huge market... but competitive one.

    Well that's what I feel anyway.

    Regards,

    Hart
    good points raised in this post.

    As stated above, professional photographers need more than just the talent to spot the right moment or to be able to process pictures. They require business sense, business skills and soft skills. There is a saying: "the surest way to kill your hobby is to turn it into your work". Many people think photography is just a matter of talent with the camera but as Agetan said, it is all about the Unique Selling Point. Many people fail to see professional photography as a normal business which are still regulated by certain market movements and such. Of course, a truly talented eccentric photographer who knows nothing but delivering stunning pictures can always find an agent or business manager who is willing to make up for his shortfall in the business skills.

    Ultimately, the influx of competitors with no legacy systems is encouraged with the lowering barrier of entry into the market and the low barrier of exit. There's two ways that this will lead to.
    First, it may lead to a severe market correction and consolidation where weak players are eliminated and the stronger players outlast the competition, although some merging will take place. This will result in prices of the professional photography service going up again due to lack of competition.
    Second, it may lead to market being tiered and different classes of photographers co-existing. An example will be the car market. Ferrari, Bentley and other luxurious or supercars never have to reduce their prices despite the influx of China-made cars entering the market at less than 1% of the price of a Ferrari. Yet, they still enjoy strong demand. These brands have successfully secured themselves up in the top end of the market and clients are paying indecent sums of money for their cars. Why? - They succeed by differentiating themselves by providing a ride, a lifestyle that is only for the elite few, thus making them the dreams of car owners. Yet, China-made cars enjoy a roaring trade selling low priced cars that meet the normal demands of drivers who would never have been able to own a car. In fact, after they own the first China-made car, they would probably move up the class after the first taste of using private transport, becoming "upgraders" and clients for higher value cars.

    Summary: It takes business skills and it is about knowing your market, your customer and your strategy.
    G

  14. #14

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    the "ferraris" are the overseas photographers who get brought in, not the local photographers.

    name me a few photographers who are well differentiated in singapore?

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    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    the "ferraris" are the overseas photographers who get brought in, not the local photographers.

    name me a few photographers who are well differentiated in singapore?
    haha.... good observation.

    Frankly, while I am not too aware of the local industry, some top professionals are doing quite well. Though they have not reached ferrari stage but I guess with more ferraris brought in, the standards of the local professionals will get a boost?

    we dun even get a good photo magazine that boasts of local photographers in editorial columns which doesn't do much to boost publicity...
    G

  16. #16

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post
    haha.... good observation.

    Frankly, while I am not too aware of the local industry, some top professionals are doing quite well. Though they have not reached ferrari stage but I guess with more ferraris brought in, the standards of the local professionals will get a boost?

    we dun even get a good photo magazine that boasts of local photographers in editorial columns which doesn't do much to boost publicity...
    the standards of local photographers do not get a boost from client mentality that if they want a good photographer they'll just go overseas.

    also regarding business sense, it takes alot more than business sense when the market is not growing much and there are more photographers and clients are not keeping the budgets up. There are some big organisations I shoot for which you'd be surprised at the budgets.

    I don't think clients are so loyal that they'll go to you for every job, at least in the area I'm in. They will go to the photographer that best suits the direction they want. Visually sophisticated clients with some money will head that way whereas clients who just treat photography as a service may just stick with one photographer (the pay can be quite different in both situations)

    it also varies from market to market, I think that some wedding photographers are very well established and that's great, but commercial photography hits an in-between zone.
    ad photography is another different market

    quite a number of photographers have gone overseas (in a way we become the expensive foreigners, which is ironic but good)
    Last edited by mattlock; 29th December 2009 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by prodigal roommate View Post
    you know... two things came to my mind when i read this thread. Pilots and Magic.

    ... But with technology (internet, youtube, wiki) - people were given a chance to demystify the art of flying (and the piloting career... sit down for hours doing nothin, plane can autopilot actually)

    ...and uncover the secrets (some really simple apparently) behind some of the magic tricks. It wasn't that difficult after all.
    Actually when it comes to piloting, without actually being a pilot, I suspect there is more to it than meets the eye. For starters they undergo constant training and testing that doesn't stop once they get qualified. At the end of the day you have the lives of hundreds of people to be responsible for every day at work, which in itself is a big thing, and with the responsibility comes remuneration.

    And with regards to magic, speaking as someone who used to do a bit of that, I can certainly see very strong parallels with photography. The fact is the best magicians are not those that know the most tricks or even the best tricks, but the best showmen and women that know how to present their tricks. For photography read, not those that have the most equipment or the best equipment, but those that know how to take a picture that really tells the story.

    We need to go back to getting Joe Public to understand that. Everyone has the Internet like you say, and can research a few cardtricks. And everyone can afford a pack of cards. It doesn't make that person a good conjurer. In the same way lots of people can afford a DSLR these days (and a good one at that), but that doesn't make those people photographers, nevermind good photographers.

    Quote Originally Posted by prodigal roommate View Post
    Same here for photography. Afterall, i can imagine how many rolls of film one must have to suffer through to fully understand apertures, shutters and ISOs...The learning curve is not as steep as before.
    All those things you mentioned were perfectly teachable from one or two books in the library if one bothered. Most cameras today make learning them unnecessary on a basic level. But none of those things teach you to take good photographs; they are only the basic principles of how to create a photograph, but you haven't mentioned anywhere anything which helps you take better photographs (aside from getting it properly exposed, etc).

    Which in all fairness, cameras were doing to a reasonable level in film, pre(or early)-Internet days.

    Quote Originally Posted by prodigal roommate View Post
    the process of acquiring skills and knowledge has just become simpler and will naturally mean people can come in and do our job at a fraction of the price.
    That process has indeed probably become simpler; but the problem is how many of these people take up that process? In all honesty I would say that maybe >50% of registered CS users are more interested in their cameras than photographs. If I'm right then as a broad generalisation that rules over half the people out. Of the remainder, some will lose interest, and some will just not have a knack for it. Taking more pictures helps you get better, but at the end of the day you need some amount of talent to get really good at it. (note the presence of "really")

    Quote Originally Posted by prodigal roommate View Post
    Ultimately, the one who decides are consumers. As long as the market accepts newcomers,regards them as professionals and loves the quality of their work, we can't cite that as "spoiling the market".
    Personally as a professional I have no issue with people that come in and take up work on merit. My contention lies with people who take work purely on cost, giving the impression that substandard quality is good enough. People who are almost as good as me and charge almost as much as me is not a problem; people who take rubbish pictures (and believe me even with all the technology around it's still very possible) and charge next to nothing are the sort we can't compete with.

    As I intimated above, this is precisely the challenge; to get Joe Public to understand that photography isn't just getting the exposure right and the shot in focus - as you point out a camera is perfectly capable of doing that and has been capable of doing that for probably 20 years now. But photography is about the content within the images, and that is down to the photographer. Yes technology opens it up to more people which means the talent net broadens, but it doesn't make anyone a better photographer per se.

    Quote Originally Posted by prodigal roommate View Post
    Instead, the challenge is for one to constantly innovate and upgrade, in a bid to differentiate and elevate themselves over the rest.
    Maybe. I've heard this argument a lot but as I said, people that charge nearly as much as me and are almost or even as good as me are entitled to be there. This is the group for which innovating and upgrading serves the most benefit. The discerning client that has the budget and the inclination to look for photographers that innovate and has the budget to do so isn't at risk, this has been happening in many industries and in photography for ages. The trouble is with clients who are happy to "make do" with substandard photography, and for them it doesn't matter how much you innovate or upgrade; they're happy to "make do".

    Those are just my responses to your post, which I found to be pretty considered especially if you've only been into photography for a short while.

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    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lim View Post
    But perhaps it is also high time that the different levels of service providers started sharing the means of good practice and proper guideline to ensure the general survival of everyone from low-high end industry?
    That though, is very much part of the problem.

    For example good practice and proper guidelines would probably include things along the lines of, backup equipment, public liability insurance, professional negligence insurance, etc. There is no way people charging say S$588 for actual day wedding photography can cover all that.

    I know that two out of those three are very rare even amongst professionals in Singapore. Possibly the culture is far more tolerant, or probably just far less inclined towards litigation. But some of those things are essential in what I would consider any good photographic business, and quite a lot of other businesses as well.

    By low end of the industry I assume you mean the part timers rather than the "quantity rather than quality" full timers, as the latter group would already have some investment in the survival of their industry. But the former group really don't care; they look out for the here and now and themselves, and by definition either already have a full time job or a parent with a full time job. Until there is a way to stop this lot entering the business (and there won't be) then there's no way to get the whole industry to pull together.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    The discussion so far has been very very good in terms of points brought up by both working professionals in the industry as well as a few insights by people looking to join the industry. And i have to agree alot with all the point brought up because it is very very real.

    There is no sure way of actually curbing the problems brought up over the last few thread. But i feel that having read this thread it would probably give good insights on the industry at the moment to everyone across the board. And also to help the new comers to understand that the world of professional photography is really not just a pretty field of flowers.

    I personally have always felt the "YES! i'm doing something i am passionate in and i'm making money from it!" But in reality, after the business really took off nearly 2 years ago, i feel that passion slowly getting stomped on by the need to make money and survive. So it is true that "the surest way to kill your hobby/passion is to turn it into your work".

    However, please do continue to add to the discussion. I just hope that this thread will serve for a good read for anyone interested to join in the rat race.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Where are we heading now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jed View Post
    That though, is very much part of the problem.

    For example good practice and proper guidelines would probably include things along the lines of, backup equipment, public liability insurance, professional negligence insurance, etc. There is no way people charging say S$588 for actual day wedding photography can cover all that.

    I know that two out of those three are very rare even amongst professionals in Singapore. Possibly the culture is far more tolerant, or probably just far less inclined towards litigation. But some of those things are essential in what I would consider any good photographic business, and quite a lot of other businesses as well.

    By low end of the industry I assume you mean the part timers rather than the "quantity rather than quality" full timers, as the latter group would already have some investment in the survival of their industry. But the former group really don't care; they look out for the here and now and themselves, and by definition either already have a full time job or a parent with a full time job. Until there is a way to stop this lot entering the business (and there won't be) then there's no way to get the whole industry to pull together.
    Jed, i fully agree with you on your points. Because over the last few months, it has also struck me that we have been looking at our businesses as a very individual profiting career as well. This reason causing alot of us to not look beyond what we have already considered a big picture. I do not know how or if the industry will finally take a step towards better litigation anytime soon. But imo, the first step needs to be stepping out into the broader picture and start thinking about the business as more then a small sole proprietorship and profits.

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