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Thread: Liverpool and Gerard Houllier and Emile Heskey

  1. #41
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    Me as a die die die hard liverpool fans, really want to speak out my mind here to share with u all on my opinion with Houllier.

    1) We must admit that the expectations we have for Liverpool is no longer similiar to 70s, 80s. We shall understand that (as according to Houllier speech in Liverpoll FC AGM) our aim in EPL is to launch a serious challenge to EPL tittle. Yes, we are not here to win it, but give a bit of challenge. Like what we did 2 season ago, finished 2nd ahead of MU.

    2) Liverpool is a country side city. Not a big city. Life is not anything fancy at all and it is lived with mostly blue-collared labour. Thus, even we have money to sign the big star, they won;t come. OF course, we will not spend big money like Leeds, eventually ended up in a financial mess. Our ticket price is cheaper (due to the income of blue collar labour), and we are not public listed company. We have our limit constraint , we know that, we have been spending carefully and we are always in financial health.

    3) During 70s and 80s, whichever the year we won Big Trophy and be the Champion, there was always a Scottish player, ie 80s Dalgish and 99 MacAllister. Tradationally believe,d we need a least a Scottish player.


    4)And I dun agree Houllier is a lousy manager to always make wrong decision on player transfer.

    He first asked for Les Ferdiand, West Ham wanted 15m. We could not afford. Houllier then bought Hyypia and Hencoz for a combined 5m.

    8m Hamann and 5m kewell had done us fantastic job. 11m heskey had scored many goals for us during the first two seasons. Even as of now, he is contributing 15.% of Liverpool goals so far this season. Dudek 4m is not a bad investment at all. Liverpool was competing with Juventus and Barcelona to sign Biscan. Ferguson wanted desperately to sing Le Tallec and Sinama, but we get them both for 4.5m etc... Of course he also made some bad decision, ie. Diao, Diouf, Finnan, TRaore, Diomede.. etc.....

    Although media claimt that Houllier had spend >100m, it is quite misleading. According to actual financial figures, he spennt >100m and he also recovered >70m from disposing off some players. Actual amount spent by him is only between 30m to 40m. With 30-40mm, He brought us joy and trophies during the 99,00,01.

    Averagely, he is not too bad on player transfer.


    5) Hollier should be gone but not sacked. He had brought Liverpool trophies, he had helped Owen to be European Player of the year. The only English player who achieves this award playing for English Club (other Englishman is kelvin Keagen, he played for Hamburg). He loved Liverpool as we do, he almost lost his life in the game (when Leeds leading 1-0 halftime) , he gave his best to the team. SHould not he deserve a lifetime job working for Liverpool ??

    But one should understand his historical performance.

    His strength is to spot potential player and cultivate him to be a real good player. He has shown that by training up so many french world class footballer. He has shown that with he was one of the best technical director, to trasnform a French national team , who was not even qualified for World CUp 90, 94 and suddenly be a World Champion in 98.

    However, he is never not a successful manager. He was French national team manager during 92,93 and 94. And he failed to take the team to USA. And of coursem he asked for 5 years from Liverpool Board to turn the club around.

    We were 5th in EPL before he was the manager. After 5 years, we are still hanging at 5th place. Dun see anything difference. His 5 years spell was not really successful. Though he brought us some trophies, his task is to make Liverpool to give a serious challenge on EPL tittle. With such a gap to 3rd place Chelsea, I dun think we are really giving any "serious challenge" on the tittle.

    Houllier should be transferred to Melwood, where Liverpool youth Academic is located. He is sure a good technical director, to brin us some young talent and train them to a world class player. Look at how much MU relied on Neveille, Butt, Beckham, Schioles....

    Carrying the role of manager had diversified his concentration.
    Last edited by MichaelLee; 23rd February 2004 at 09:36 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garion
    After yesterday's results, you still believe so?

    There goes our last chance at a piece of silverware for this lacklustre season. I think its about time for a shakeup, starting with Houllier himself. Many fans out there are baying that it is time for Houllier to go, but seems like the board has not heard their cries. Well, if this result isn't proof, then what is?

    BTW I'm a Pool fan too and it gives me agony to see them go thru such a slump.
    hi Garion,
    good morning!

    maybe, u should have gotten used to such results from Liverpool!
    heskey on the left wing! wow! wat more do u expect? haha

    anyway, any major changes will only take place at the end of the season. so, endure together with me as our beloved Liverpool braves the storm!

    meanwhile, try to get used to the indifferent performance from the Reds.

    cheers!
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    very much agree with Wong_Se.

    Scousers...

    i've watched them play since i was 13. and they were one of the best then. ian rush, john barnes... steve nicol! oh well, those were then and now is the present.

    i haven't much to ask of Liverpool this season.. really. jus play good games and don't get too many players injured... maybe next season we can build a come back.

    houllier really still get my vote but heskey on the left wing drives me insane. haha
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    it is always better to miss lot of chances and score more goals rather than miss few chances and scored few goals.

    The % and ratio that I provide speak that he is more important to Liverpool than bergkamp to Arsenal or Crespo to Chelsea.

    He deserves a place in the sqaud.

    The UEFA match is coming up, for sure Houllier will start with him even baros is back.
    heskey may (or may not) be important to liverpool, but ask any arsenal fan, bergkamp is a valuable member of the team. though he maybe be designated to play up front, in reality he is more of a playmaker - and a damn good one at that. in fact i hope they renew his contract for another year or 2.

    btw. i think the most important player in the liverpool team is steven gerrard. great player but unfortunately he can win games on his own. i think the other team members are really under-performing. better wake up now or end up in mid-table.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    Me as a die die die hard liverpool fans, really want to speak out my mind here to share with u all on my opinion with Houllier.

    ....[stuff deleted]

    Houllier should be transferred to Melwood, where Liverpool youth Academic is located. He is sure a good technical director, to brin us some young talent and train them to a world class player. Look at how much MU relied on Neveille, Butt, Beckham, Schioles....

    Carrying the role of manager had diversified his concentration.
    agree houllier needs to move on. who do you have in mind that can bring out the best in liverpool now?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahheng
    Personally, I think the artist formerly known as "EMILE" has been played in rather 'bad' positions by club and country. The boy is obviously the out and out center forward type, but what do they do to him? Use him as a wide player or as support for the pip squeak Owen who has been scheming all this up from day one!

    Frankly, I think the big man is just bored to tears and is very unmotivated these days.

    The ironic thing is that I think the Liverpool of ole (Dalglish - as player, Terry McDermott, David Johnson, Clemence, Kennedyx2, Phil Neal, Thompson, etc) played a far more continental game than the Liverpool of today, and that is just sad, given that their current manager is a Frenchman.

    Maybe someone ought to send Mr Houllier tapes from *the* glory days and remind him that he shouldn't tell his players to play the dumbie English way so often.
    Totally agree.

    They always play the long ball up and hope Owen gets on to the end of it and score. He used to be able to do that but now the defenders just mark him out of the game.

    That was what England did in last year's World Cup against Brazil.

    The whole team is just not performing at the moment, they just don't gel. When you see Arsenal play now, it looks like the Pool team of Bob Paisley and Kenny Dalglish days. Even with Kewell they cannot win. Dun know what to say liaoz.

  7. #47
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    Houllier had gone mad in the last 2 seasons....there are few costly mistake he had done...let me point out some here...

    1) keep having faith and playing Traore.
    2) Even with Hencoz is not injured, he started the game with biscan.
    3) He decided not to sign Anelka but not sign 11m Diouf.
    4) What happened to Diao ? One of the worst transfer we had made.
    5) he played heskey in some weird and unfamiliar position.
    6) he gave smicer too much games but too little to Litmanen.
    7) He decided to loan out Vignal and Babbel and with couple injuries this season, we have not got enough defender to play with.
    8) He decided not to keep Litmanam.
    9) He sub out Hamann in the CHampion League quarter final against bayer Levekusen.
    10) He suddenly changed the style to more attacking and the team is not reallt familiar with. Too attacking minded had cost us conceding so many goals this season.
    11) He lied to Westerveld. he told Westerveld he is still numebr 1 keeper before Westerveld left for Holland team training. The next few days, houllier signed 2 keepers and made Westerveld as reductant. He should not lie to his player.
    12) He shall at least sell Diomede before the contract expired to recover some loss. He bought Diomede for 3.5m and nto even started him with more than 10 games.
    13) After last season failure to advance to 2nd round Cl and lost to Celtic at Anfield for UEFA, Houllier should sign a more defending defender rather than a more attacking minded defender Steve Finnan since our problem is on conceding goal.
    14) he shall bring in Cisse at the beginning of this season. Since he had obviously made Diouf playing as a right midfielder, we had only 3 main striker, Owen, Baros, heskey. Sinama is more like a trainee striker as we loan out Mellor.
    15) he rotated the player too often until they are not too familiar with their role, ie Kewell play on right and Diouf play on left (ie beckham play on left and Giggs play on right for MU ???) Smicer start as supporting striker, heskey as left wing and alone striker.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao
    Maybe the Liverpool PR machinery could hire William Hung to do a rendition of You'll Never Walk Alone before every match to whip up the cheering mood of the supporters? I can just imagine the hips swaying . . . .

    Or Houllier or the players should say something like "I already gave my best and I have no regrets at all." after every match.

    bad boy

    i only wish the team can say they gave their best. they are so inconsistent. need a major reshuffle.

  9. #49
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    heskey may (or may not) be important to liverpool, but ask any arsenal fan, bergkamp is a valuable member of the team.
    I am not saying that Bergkamp is not an important player.

    I am just to point out that with such a ratio 5% (personal/total goal), Bergkamp is an important striker to arsenal, not to mention that Heskey, having a higher ratio to overall team goals, should be deserve a role. and shall not even question whether we should sell him or not.

    FYI, Wiltord cost more than heskey. How many goals heskey had scored since playing for anfield and how many goal assitant to owen , in comparison to Wiltord ??

    Not to forget, sometimes he played as a lone striker, a lot of miss is not even a clear chance, but he managed to give a trial on goal because of his physical ability. ie, the goal he scored again Bayern Munich in the Super Cup.

    the statistical result dun lie. keep focusing on how many chances he missed do not help at all. it is lilke finding fault on one individual and neglect his overall contribution. I am not heskey fans, but i reckon he deserve to the Reds.
    Last edited by MichaelLee; 23rd February 2004 at 10:49 AM.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    I am not saying that Bergkamp is not an important player.

    I am just to point out that with such a ratio 5% (personal/total goal), Bergkamp is an important striker to arsenal, not to mention that Heskey, having a higher ratio to overall team goals, should be deserve a role. and shall not even question whether we should sell him or not.

    FYI, Wiltord cost more than heskey. How many goals heskey had scored since playing for anfield and how many goal assitant to owen , in comparison to Wiltord ??

    Not to forget, sometimes he played as a lone striker, a lot of miss is not even a clear chance, but he managed to give a trial on goal because of his physical ability. ie, the goal he scored again Bayern Munich in the Super Cup.

    the statistical result dun lie. keep focusing on how many chances he missed do not help at all. it is lilke finding fault on one individual and neglect his overall contribution. I am not heskey fans, but i reckon he deserve to the Reds.
    ah...wiltord. what can i say? one of arsene wenger's wrong buys
    he should be moving on at the end of the season.

    bergkamp plays more of a supporting role nowadays and more upfront if henry is not available. so if he gets 4 goals along the way, thats good enough for me. besides i think the situation at arsenal now is really good. the players are playing as a team. the strikers either help to build up play or draw the defenders away. take the chelsea game for example. henry drew 2 defenders. makelele left vieira and went for bergkamp. bergkamp then slips a pass to a totally unmarked vieira to score. i rather have bergkamp playing the way he has now, and if the goals come along all the better.

    now francis jeffers is a different story. he was supposed to be a fox-in-the-box but i see him as a flop-in-the-box. just as well he is on loan back at everton.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    Houllier had gone mad in the last 2 seasons....there are few costly mistake he had done...let me point out some here...

    1) keep having faith and playing Traore.
    this sometimes ended up as sheer madness(on houllier's part) and unbelievable mistakes(on traore's part). well, there were times when traore played really well. maybe he needs more time to settle in and more matches. however, not this season, please...
    traore for France! anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    2) Even with Hencoz is not injured, he started the game with biscan.
    Biscan should be allowed to develop as a defender. it takes time to convert any player at any natural own-preferred position to play in an unfamiliar position as deployed by the club. i feel that biscan has much to contribute to Liverpool's clause. however, it takes time.

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    3) He decided not to sign Anelka but not sign 11m Diouf.
    its great that we din't sign the Sulk. can u believe it? nowadays when he scored for Man City, he dun celebrate much and neither do his team-mates congratulate him that much. he is an unstabilising factor in any team. however, he only create footballing problems(if u noticed it, be it money or transfer moves) and unlike mcmanaman and fowler who caused another 'hoo-ha' with their oh-so-frequent sex-romps. i think Anelka is too much of a risk to take. i can't imagine him squaring up with owen or stevie.

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    4) What happened to Diao ? One of the worst transfer we had made.
    no idea. i have to agree with u on this. he's a mystery, eh? haha

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    5) he played heskey in some weird and unfamiliar position.
    bingo! heskey on the left wing?? is he trying to make heskey play for England on the left wing??

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    6) he gave smicer too much games but too little to Litmanen.
    i can't help but feel that houllier has something against jari litmanen. jari's an amazing player!

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    7) He decided to loan out Vignal and Babbel and with couple injuries this season, we have not got enough defender to play with.
    it was something that babbel said about Liverpool or something that prompted houllier to tell him that he won't play for the Reds again. i forgot what it was. but it must have really upset monsieur houllier.

    gregory vignal is still, not ready for the big time. besides, he can gain more exposure with the other clubs, which can only be good for Liverpool. but i've a feeling he will be sold soon...

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    8) He decided not to keep Litmanam.
    it must be jari's style of play that does not feature well with the workman-like style employed by houllier.

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    9) He sub out Hamann in the CHampion League quarter final against bayer Levekusen.
    that match! oh well, Bayer Leverkusen were having the season of their lives. can't comment on that substitution. i believe since then, Liverpool faltered.

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    10) He suddenly changed the style to more attacking and the team is not reallt familiar with. Too attacking minded had cost us conceding so many goals this season.
    this takes time to change the mindset of the team and the players. now we can't score and we can't defend. this is the transitional period, thus the soft goals and the in-betweens. i hope this is really the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    11) He lied to Westerveld. he told Westerveld he is still numebr 1 keeper before Westerveld left for Holland team training. The next few days, houllier signed 2 keepers and made Westerveld as reductant. He should not lie to his player.
    Sander seems to be inspired by good old bruce grobelaar in that game against Bolton Wanderers! from winning the game to a defeat eventually.

    before this, Sander has been erratic. perhaps it is a curse on Liverpool's goalkeepers? look at David James... immense potential and superb reflexes but a total nut-case. Jerzy Dudek?

    he's catching the bug, i'm afraid. he has conceded unbelivably soft goals against Man Utd and to Diego Forlan?! oh man, he simply walked the ball home! wat an insult! for this, Dudek should be kicked out of Anfield that very day!!

    anyway, its just my own feelings. besides, i believe jerzy got a hell lot of stick for that error. and not forgetting his poor performances in 2002 World Cup for Poland...i believe he should sort out this unbelivable drop in form...

    now we've got Chris Kirkland! fit again! yeah! he should be the new no.1 and England's too! go chris go!

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    12) He shall at least sell Diomede before the contract expired to recover some loss. He bought Diomede for 3.5m and nto even started him with more than 10 games.
    no one wants him. and he's a France International when he landed in melwood! wow!

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    13) After last season failure to advance to 2nd round Cl and lost to Celtic at Anfield for UEFA, Houllier should sign a more defending defender rather than a more attacking minded defender Steve Finnan since our problem is on conceding goal.
    it was total disgust to lose at home ground, be it any match or competition. the worst was losing to Man Utd. losing to Celtic is bad, but it does signal the end of Liverpool's dominance at home games against European competitors.

    no one is afraid of Anfield. or rather, no one is afraid of the current Liverpool team, less for a couple of players...

    i wouldn't want to be in the dressing room after the Portsmouth game last nite... i'm just too disappointed that the same old bulls is falling on us, yet again. so, what's new?

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    14) he shall bring in Cisse at the beginning of this season. Since he had obviously made Diouf playing as a right midfielder, we had only 3 main striker, Owen, Baros, heskey. Sinama is more like a trainee striker as we loan out Mellor.
    no he can't bring Djibril in. simply becos Gerard's good fren, Guy, manager of Auxerre, won't let djibril leave. which is good, i believe. because djibril gets 1st team experience there and at Liverpool, it might not happen. he might end up on the left wing! oh no!

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    15) he rotated the player too often until they are not too familiar with their role, ie Kewell play on right and Diouf play on left (ie beckham play on left and Giggs play on right for MU ???) Smicer start as supporting striker, heskey as left wing and alone striker.
    no idea what he's thinking. most probably he's trying to confuse the opponent. but he confused everybody! heskey's especially!
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    this season, houllier really made heskey a difficult role. Sometimes he does play, soemtimes not. and sometimes play him on the left wing. if u are heskey, u will fin it hard to adopt and be on form all the time.


    if u look back at last seasons while Houllier more consistantly played him and played him as to partner owen, u would also be happy to see the number of goal assistant heskey made to owen.

    Of course, bergkamp is a good player, a much better player than heskey. I am not to argue that.

    As being a liverpool fans, my only concern is Liverpool team.
    The intention I give the ratio of other players form other team, is not to compare each player contributions and argue whether who is better ??

    I am to justify my opinion why i think Heskey should be deserved as a Liverpool player since the topic of this thread partly asking whether heskey should leave liverpool.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    this season, houllier really made heskey a difficult role. Sometimes he does play, soemtimes not. and sometimes play him on the left wing. if u are heskey, u will fin it hard to adopt and be on form all the time.


    if u look back at last seasons while Houllier more consistantly played him and played him as to partner owen, u would also be happy to see the number of goal assistant heskey made to owen.

    Of course, bergkamp is a good player, a much better player than heskey. I am not to argue that.

    As being a liverpool fans, my only concern is Liverpool team.
    The intention I give the ratio of other players form other team, is not to compare each player contributions and argue whether who is better ??

    I am to justify my opinion why i think Heskey should be deserved as a Liverpool player since the topic of this thread partly asking whether heskey should leave liverpool.
    heskey shouldn't leave. but he should be playing up-front with owen and not on the left winger!

    right on, wong_se!
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    basically after another L'pool defeat (by Pompey no less...sorrie no offence).
    the question on most of the fans mind shouldnt be who they want to take over the managerial job...But do they still want him to stay on for another 2-3 more seasons to "turn corners"??

    with the way they are playing these days....it will not be such a good idea to see them qualifying for the coveted fouth spot (definitely not their God given rights..of cos.. ).
    against the likes of Milan, Real & Bayern....it might be a too humbling experience for most fans to stomach.

    there is not the slighest doubt that what happens on the pitch that decides the outcome of results...yet we will be kidding ourselves if we believe that what happens off it has no co-relation to that.

    when you are the boss....you ARE the rightful targetman.
    when the company/team delivers, you get your deserving adulation and rewards.
    And when they do NOT...you carries the brunt of the blame and pack your bags.
    This happens everywhere... not just in football management.

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    HI CheeseCake,

    IT seems that we have some common ground of sharing the similiar opinion of the current liverpool problem.

    Let me again highlight ...

    1) If Vignal is not ready, Traore is even worse.
    2) yes, agree that we need time to train up Traore and Biscan. Let do it in the reserve game and league cup. Not the EPLP while we are fighting for 4th place.
    3) No comment about Anelka in Man City (not my concern with other clubs). but at least I see Anelka had and can create more for Liverpool than Diouf. At least Anelka is still a EPL striker while Diouf is a wing. a 11m wing is too much lah for his performace.

    Let's look who other wing player in the top four.
    MU- Ronaldo 12.2m
    Arsenal - Pires 6m
    Chelsea - Duff 15m and Gronkjaer may be at 8m
    newcastle - RObert 10.5m
    Liverpool - kewell 5m (budget buy)

    a 11m Diouf has to be at least at par with the performance of any of the above player.

    4) Jari is a more experiences and supporting striker than Smicer. And Lit is a die hard liverpool fans. He is not here to play for money. He is here to play for his beloved club. As babbels. Babbles wants to end his career witht eh club he has been supporting since young. And he still wants desperately to be back to Anfield.

    5) Westerveld made one mistake Bolton, and he is betrayed by his mananger. Dudek made several mistake againt MU, and we lost both matches. Yet, Houllier keep faith with him. Is not that a bit unfair ? yes. nothing is unfair. but at least, u shold not lie to your player.

    6) No one wants Diomede even we want to sell him at budget. yes, u are right. But then why we signed him for 3.5m at the first place. and did not even use him that much to realise that he is crap.


    7) There is no need to confuse your opponent. Any team play against MU know that Beckahm will cross the ball from right and Giggs will do from left. keane is the defensive midfielder while Schole is the attacking midfileder. U dun need to confuse your opponent. U only confuse yourself. There is one EPL match played this season, Houllier played Kewell on right and Diouf ion left for the first 2omins. THen the pair change position. then changed back after half time break and change again in the last 20mins. ????


    I have given an offer with my friends at the end of last season, if liverpool can finsih above 4th in EPL this season, i give the ratio 1:2. My friend placed a bet with me $500. The money is in my pocket liao.
    Last edited by MichaelLee; 23rd February 2004 at 11:49 AM.

  16. #56
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    Default Leave ...

    ship them out please ...

    Emile Heskey
    Igor Biscan
    Salif Diao
    El Hadji Diouf
    Bruno Cheyrou
    Djimi Traore
    Gerard Houllier

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph
    basically after another L'pool defeat (by Pompey no less...sorrie no offence).
    the question on most of the fans mind shouldnt be who they want to take over the managerial job...But do they still want him to stay on for another 2-3 more seasons to "turn corners"??
    turned too many corners already.. just going round n round now

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    Quote Originally Posted by zhapchit
    ship them out please ...

    Emile Heskey
    Igor Biscan
    Salif Diao
    El Hadji Diouf
    Bruno Cheyrou
    Djimi Traore
    Gerard Houllier
    YES!!! YES!!!!

    And to think Houllier compared Diao to Viera and Cheyrou to Zizou. Crap man!!! He must be losing his mind or his heart problem affected his judgement.

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    Default Thai PM eyes Liverpool in bid for premier club



    BANGKOK, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Billionaire Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is eyeing a bid for English premier league club Liverpool after Fulham spurned his advances last year, an advisor said on Monday.
    "I believe the prime minister already had his aides checking Liverpool's financial position in the past four to five months," said Thawatchai Satchakul, manager of the Thai national soccer team who advised Thaksin during his pursuit of Fulham.
    "He is now in the process of deciding whether to bid for Liverpool," Thawatchai told Reuters.
    Thaksin, who made his money in telecommunications, told reporters on Sunday he was still serious about buying an English premier club.
    "It should be a bigger club (than Fulham)," Thaksin said, but he declined to elaborate.
    Thaksin expressed interest in Fulham last November after watching the club play in London.
    But Fulham chairman Mohamed Al Fayed, the owner of London department store Harrods who has known Thaksin for years, said he had no intention of selling the club.
    "His feeling now is similar to that five or six months ago when Fulham was in the picture. If you visualised him doing shopping in a store, I would say the prime minister's eyes are now fixed on Liverpool," Thawatchai said.

  20. #60
    Senior Member zhapchit's Avatar
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    will we see the likes of more Kiatisuk playing in the english league soon?

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