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Thread: Liverpool and Gerard Houllier and Emile Heskey

  1. #401

    Thumbs up Reds Still Top Of The League

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drill...40510-1550.htm

    Liverpool remain top of the Shots on Goal league after notching up another 14 efforts at St Andrews on Saturday evening.

    Liverpool manager Gerard Houllier has always used our position as the club who have had the most shots on goal as a way of rubbishing claims that we're a boring side and he'll be delighted that unless Bolton manage 24 shots against Fulham on the last day of the season and Liverpool fail to even test Shay Given once, we'll finish the season on top of the Shots on Goal league.

    Most Shots on Goal League

    1. Liverpool: 503 shots
    2. Bolton: 480 shots
    3. Chelsea: 466 shots
    4. Manchester City: 433
    5. Arsenal: 431

    Most Shots on Target League

    1. Liverpool: 217 on target
    2. Arsenal: 214 on target
    3. Bolton: 194 on target
    4. Chelsea: 194 on target
    5. Man United: 187 on target

    http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drill...40510-1550.htm

  2. #402

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    dont forget goals scored too - liverpool are 4th

  3. #403
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    seems like we're in pole position to finish in 4th position!

    hope that the Saints will put one over Newcastle... heh heh


    Go LIVERPOOL GO!!
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  4. #404
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    Liverpool all the way!

  5. #405

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    Looks like we are going to have more of liverpool in Asia..
    Maybe carlsberg will become singha..

  6. #406

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    i must say liverpool are looking good for a 4th place finish. i don't think newcastle are good enough with key players injured

  7. #407
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    even if liverpool loss the final game and villa make a victory against MU. Liverpool is over Villa because of the goal difference. Unless Villa can beat MU by 12-0. So, Villa is out of the question.

    Now, let focus what Newcastle can do ?

    If they lose or draw against Southampton on Wednesday, then the race is over. If they managa to win against So'ton, then Liverpool only need a draw on the final match to clinch 4th spot.

    Look at the recent form of Newcastle.

    they fought so hard in the UEFA semi final....and they have so many young players in the injuries list. They are now merely rely on the old bird..ie SHearer for the attack and Speed in the midfield. After Sunday game...u can see that the old bird was tired..and Shearer surpirsingly missed a penalty.

    They have to play a game again on Wednesday and a final game at Anfield on Saturday. They will be extremely tired by then. Shearer and Speed were playing 4 important games in less than 15 days. They were no longer a young player.

    I dun think they can make it ... they are tired legs and physically not ready.

    Liverpool is on fire now...after the MU vitory...they are running on high morale....Heskey even scored 2 goals in the last 2 games....Owen form is 70% back.....hit the post once...earned a penalty and assit Heskey goal in the match agaisnt Middlesbrough....scored in the previous game as well.

    Finger crossed and I believe Liverpool can make it to 4th....
    Last edited by MichaelLee; 11th May 2004 at 02:06 PM.

  8. #408
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    Default How much a job did Heskey give to Liverpool this season ?

    1 more game left to be played before the 2003/2004 EPL season end.

    Let's look at some summaryies of goal statistics (statistics dun lie and always do a good job preformance review)

    At the earlier session of this thread, I pointed out some goal and goal ratio of How well/poor had Heskey done so far for this season to the club / (responding to the Tittle of this thread)

    Look at some goals statistics among the top 5 club, namely Arsenal, Chelsea, MU, Liverpool and Newcastle.

    a) Goals scored in EPL
    b) Ratio (personal goals / total club goals in EPL)


    Liverpool Goals Ratio
    Michael Owen 15 29%
    Emile Heskey 7 13%
    Harry Kewell 7 13%
    Total EPL goals 52

    Chelsea
    Hasselbaink 12 18%
    Frank Lampard 10 15%
    Hernan Crespo 10 15%
    Eidur Gudjohnsen 6 9%
    Adrian Mutu 6 9%
    Total EPL goals 65

    MU
    Nistelrooy 19 26%
    Paul Scholes 9 12%
    Ryan Giggs 7 9%
    Diego Forlan 4 5%
    Total EPL goals 74

    Arsenal
    Thierry Henry 29 43%
    Robert Pires 14 21%
    Fredrik Ljungberg 4 6%
    Total EPL goals 67

    Newcastle
    Alan Shearer 22 46%
    Laurent Robert 6 13%
    Craig Bellamy 4 8%
    Total EPL goals 48

    My conclusion (comment welcomed)

    1) Heskey did the job as 2nd main striker, his goals is 2nd to the club
    2) His imporatance of 13% is quite a good number to the overall contribution
    3) When Chelsea signed Andrain Mutu, it was such a ho-ha....but then compared that statistics to heskey.
    4) Although I dun have the assist on goal ratio....but I am sure u won;t jump to me that heskey assist is very poor. We are know he is more playing as a supportive role.
    5) Besides of scoring, heskey did also a good job in defending...ie he played deeper in midfield area to defend while leaving Owen alone in front for any coutner attack opportunity...and he is such a defender (header) when conceding freekick and corner...
    6) not to mention this is his worst season in terms of goal ratio. He was doing a great job for his first 2 seasons for his career in liverpool.
    7) What do u think if we have Cisse, Owen, Biscan, Signama in attack ?? they are all quite similiar type of player.....but heskey provide another dimension of none this player has..... the ability to head down the ball, to hold the ball (very important especially playing in CL)...to provide a good header.....and be able to challenge big size defender....

    I truly believe heskey had done a good job and he truly deserved to be a Liverpool player.

  9. #409

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    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    7) What do u think if we have Cisse, Owen, Biscan, Signama in attack ?? they are all quite similiar type of player.....but heskey provide another dimension of none this player has..... the ability to head down the ball, to hold the ball (very important especially playing in CL)...to provide a good header.....and be able to challenge big size defender....

    I truly believe heskey had done a good job and he truly deserved to be a Liverpool player.
    I question the fact that Heskey can do any of the above, effectively.

    MY point is:
    1. Whenever Heskey plays, he does not add any dimension in attack. His frame isnt utilized to the extent he is capable off. Whenever he gets the ball he almost immediately passes it back to the midfielder without gaining any ground. -- Only once or twice this season has he shown his ability to actually *hold* the ball and thus make good the attack.

    2. Head Down the Ball??? Can u please tell me a match when he actually head it down and trapped it. I really cant recall and I've watch almost every televised Liverpool game this season.

    3. Good Header?? I dare say Hyppia would be the best in the team ... maybe he has one of the better headers in the team but certainly not good enough.

    4. Most importantly Heskey cant pass and lacks vision.

    Its very frustrating to watch him play, honestly. Yeah he may well be a scapegoat but whenever liverpool plays badly he seems the worst. A Liverpool fansite (thisisanfield.com) actually gave him a '0' rating for one of the matches in the past 2 months !!!

  10. #410
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    dimension in attack
    a striker is judged by how many goals he score. not by whether he has dimension to attack. I am happy with a goal rather than having dimension but no goal scored at the end.

    I believe his goal and goal ratio have done a good summary. His goal contribution is more significant to liverpool compared to Eidur Gudjohnsen or Adrian Mutu to Chelsea.

    Whenever Heskey plays, he does not add any dimension in attack.
    Let me give u an example.... Super Cup August 2001, Liverpool won 3-2 (or wast it 3-1) against Bayern Munich. heskey received the ball, spiked up and went on to shoot for a goal. All individual effort. Another typical example, he scored one of the similiar goal for England in the victory of 5-1 against germany in 2001 Sept. June 2002, he scored for England in the match 3-0 agaisnt Denmark in similiar style. Whether he has a dimension to attack ? the answer from me is "yes".


    Whenever he gets the ball he almost immediately passes it back to the midfielder without gaining any ground.
    Dun jump on to the conclusion that because of him doing so, he is labelled as "no dimension to attack". If u have realised that the style of attacking football Liverpool is playing this season, is very different than last 2 seasons.
    It was used to be a long ball to Owen , or Fowler or Anelka to run in. Or a quick counter-attack. heskey was playing as a supporting role, and head down the ball for the running man....

    but this season, they attack as a whole team moving forward.
    the flow is like Dudek kick a long ball....Hamann or Gerrand or heskey head down the ball or pass the ball to midfield or wing area....heskey run into the edge of the center of the penalty box and be an obvious target man. And he is "entertained" by the central defenders. Owen is at the corner edge of penalty box while waiting for a pass or cut in when there is a through pass.

    Hamann and gerrard move forward , Diouf and kewell position at the wide deep area for support.

    Whenever heskey gets the ball he almost immediately passes it back to the midfielder, yes, u are right. But for me, i would rather see it as Houllier strategy and the way he plays is all for the benefits to allow the whole team to move on and attack. Whilst he is being an obvious target at the center.

    that's why many people seldom see his contribution. Eventhough he did not get the ball nor any chance to score..being such a size standing in the middle, he draw the attention of 2 defender that allows others to have more room to attack.

    both Sven Eriksson and houllier described and please with his work rate and overall team contribution...guess it can not be too wrong of his way of playing.



    Head Down the Ball???
    I think u miss my point here. I am saying merely "Head Down the Ball", not head in the ball to the net. When Dudek kick a ball, it is always heskey up there to head down the ball. not owen, and definately not Hyypia. he is somewhere around the own penalty box for his own defending role.

    In the treble season, we have seen so many couter-attack and goals coming from high ball, and heskey ran towards while Owen cut in. Heskey would always try to head the ball for the running man Owen. We had been very successful while playing this strategy during UEFA and CL games.

    but we used this secret weapon so often and all our opponent are being aware off.
    Last edited by MichaelLee; 11th May 2004 at 03:41 PM.

  11. #411
    Senior Member zhapchit's Avatar
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    Maybe should compare goals scored to no. of games played ratio also?

  12. #412
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    4. Most importantly Heskey cant pass and lacks vision.
    scoring 13% goals of the total goals scored by the club for all EPL matches is considered lack of vision, then I dun know what and how to describe Mutu, Gudjohnsen, Forlan, SoSars, Bellamy, etc.............

    okie.....even if u think heskey is not good enough (by your defination), but guess we have no other options. Not too many supporitng strikers scored that many goals as Heskey did for the club this season.

    Not mean to argue but everyone is here to speak freely and any comment is welcomed. but giving a statement " he is not good", is very subjective statement. To convince the fans and coach, the result speaks all. Unless there are lots of supporting striker in EPL with a better goal and goal ratio, I am hard to believe that Heskey is a poor striker, I mean a "supporting" striker.

    Before Brazil played England in the World Cup 2002 Quarterfinal, Rivaldo said that the player that the brazil team are fear to destroy their defensive line was Heskey. He played heskey over 2 matches , UEFA semi final.

    On the actual match, heskey received the ball. and gave a long ball...for owen to run for. he ball landed on the brazilian defender hips and then beautiful placed for owen to scored.

    Lack of version and dun know how to pass ? I dun quite believe it....


    Some may argue - well james beattie scored more goals than heskey...he must be good then...

    I believe none of our football knowledge here is greater than Sven Ericksson.
    But on how many "real" (not friendly match) matches had Sven played Heskey, how many matches Beattie play for england.
    Last edited by MichaelLee; 11th May 2004 at 04:34 PM.

  13. #413

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    Well I was actually refering to this season. Admittedly he did play well 2 seasons ago. Last season was disappointing. This season was absolutely disgusting.

    Both Houllier and Sven -- I don't know but I'm certain he won't be starting in the first 11 anyhow.

    PS: Yeah I got what you meant about heading down the ball. but seriously apart from one or two occasions (Man Utd match included) he never trapped the ball to his feet. he got to the ball, yes. But he didn't manage an effective pass or trap while getting to it. Most of the time he'd head it away for a throw or to an opposing player.
    Last edited by tempest; 11th May 2004 at 04:14 PM.

  14. #414
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    Maybe should compare goals scored to no. of games played ratio also?
    I give the ratio is not for the purpose of comparing between players. Rather than providing an "industry standard ratio" or a benchmark for the justification of "heskey has done good for Liverpool".

    If u want the goal/ games played, I have Mutu 6/21 and heskey 7/24.
    The ratio is about the same, why we seldom hear fans calling for Mutu but calling for heskey.

    we have to take in for account that if u are not good, then u are not playing, then u have seldom chances to score.

    but if u are not scoring , then u must be doing something extra that please the manager for keep playing u. heskey scenario.

    I would rather look at personal goal to total club goal to judge "how important a striker to a club".

    May be if u are comparing 2 strikers, then goals/per games played should be taken into account.
    Last edited by MichaelLee; 11th May 2004 at 04:37 PM.

  15. #415
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    Both Houllier and Sven -- I don't know but I'm certain he won't be starting in the first 11 anyhow.
    Houllier had started Heskey in the last 3 matches.

    He always be the first 11 for Liverpool, unless there is any tactical changes.

    Whether he plays as first 11 for England, we will see.

    but I am not concerned, I am Liverpool fans but never support England national Team.

  16. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se
    Houllier had started Heskey in the last 3 matches.

    He always be the first 11 for Liverpool, unless there is any tactical changes.

    Whether he plays as first 11 for England, we will see.

    but I am not concerned, I am Liverpool fans but never support England national Team.
    about the starting 11, I was refering to Sven. I am begining to question his judgement for England because of that. but I can sort of understand why - Heskey is one of the only big players around. and Heskey isn't confirmed in the English squad yet.

    Houllier has always been biased with his own signings. Look at Biscan for eg. Not good but plays a lot compared to Henchoz. but thats another issue. It remains to be seen whether Houllier and Heskey are still around at the start of next season.

    Both did very well previously but the last 2 seasons werent acceptable from a Liverpool point of view. Fourth place is DEFINITELY NOT AN ACCEPTABLE TARGET for a club of our stature.
    Last edited by tempest; 11th May 2004 at 04:50 PM.

  17. #417
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    PS: Yeah I got what you meant about heading down the ball. but seriously apart from one or two occasions (Man Utd match included) he never trapped the ball to his feet. he got to the ball, yes. But he didn't manage an effective pass or trap while getting to it. Most of the time he'd head it away for a throw or to an opposing player.
    last night I watched the replay Liverpool vs Birmingham....

    Let me give some highlights of heskey moment.

    The first shot on target
    A long ball flying to heskey, he headed down the ball to running man -Owen.
    Owen took a shoot, and but deflected between the keepers leg....the ball rolling slowly towards the goal but cleared by Birmingham defender.

    1st goal - it is heskey assist on goal. the ball is nicely pass through for Owen.

    2nd goal - Heskey goal.

    before gerrard scored the 3rd goal, heskey had another shot on target. it hit the side of the net.

    Although he might head down the ball to other directions most of the time.... he managed to put Owen to scored the first goal. that is important.

    1 goal and 1 assit on goal.

    I will definatley not labell him as "no dimension to attack" nor "poor passing and lack of version". Indeed, I recognise him as man of the match after gerrard for this match.

  18. #418
    Senior Member zhapchit's Avatar
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    if only he had given more such performances this season...

  19. #419
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    if only he had given more such performances this season...
    this season, we have so many injuries..

    and most of the player are out of form consistently.

    gerrard was out beginning season and has been doing superbly and is the most consistent player.

    even Riise, Kewell and Hyypia are a bit up and down.

    Hamann, Biscan, Carranger, hencoz, DUdek, Chris, Signama, Owen all have injuries...

    Really terrible.

    The best we can finish for this season is to finish EPL at 4th spot.

    Even owen said that it is definaely not enough.

  20. #420

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    Hahah ... you are a Heskey supporter.

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