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Thread: Save otters from dog menace

  1. #21
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    There are two species of Otters that are native in Singapore.

    Smooth Otter and Oriental small-clawed Otter.

    Those show in the above link are Smooth Otter.
    Hmm....I never know they exist in SG. Learn something new!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    So what is the best way????? Let the dogs reproduce and wipe up the whole natural reserve????

    Why not tell Australian to save the cane toad.....

    It is sad that eventually those dogs will be gone, a life lost is a lost.... but the fact is that those dogs don't belong there and are act of irresponisble people.

    Those dogs are indirectly killed by their ex-owner.

    Those ain't left many wild native wildlife in Singapore, it will be very sad that our next generation can only view them in the zoo.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post

    Kawaii...!!!
    The otters want to play with the doggies.
    You will think otherwise if those wild dogs are arounding a kid in the water.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    People will get smarter and kick into actions after one or two incident happened.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlim View Post
    People will get smarter and kick into actions after one or two incident happened.
    People from AVA and NParks will get smarter and kick into actions after their asses been kick.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    So what is the best way????? Let the dogs reproduce and wipe up the whole natural reserve????

    Why not tell Australian to save the cane toad.....

    It is sad that eventually those dogs will be gone, a life lost is a lost.... but the fact is that those dogs don't belong there and are act of irresponisble people.

    Those dogs are indirectly killed by their ex-owner.

    Those ain't left many wild native wildlife in Singapore, it will be very sad that our next generation can only view them in the zoo.
    i still dont understand your logic. just cos in your mind you have assumed all dogs are domesticated. they are also dogs that are wild and native to the area. so who are you to say what goes and what stays.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    i still dont understand your logic. just cos in your mind you have assumed all dogs are domesticated. they are also dogs that are wild and native to the area. so who are you to say what goes and what stays.
    Dog are not native and no dog are allowed in SBWR...... not i said, Ah kong said so, don't believe, call AVA or NParks.
    Not happy with Ah Kong, complaint them and don't vote for them.

    Go to NParks website and get a checklist of native fauna in Singapore and the impact of IAS.
    Last edited by Leong23; 23rd December 2009 at 01:14 PM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Tired of typing so many things to explain.......

    List of Mammal in Singapore.......

    http://www.nparks.gov.sg/cms/index.p...130&Itemid=128

    IAS

    http://www.nparks.gov.sg/cms/index.p...158&Itemid=129

  9. #29

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    i still dont understand your logic. just cos in your mind you have assumed all dogs are domesticated. they are also dogs that are wild and native to the area. so who are you to say what goes and what stays.
    Are the dogs native to that island? For how many hundred years in generations?

    It was reported in the news that they were abandoned.
    Last edited by johnlim; 23rd December 2009 at 01:26 PM.

  10. #30
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by Leong23 View Post
    Tired of typing so many things to explain.......

    List of Mammal in Singapore.......

    http://www.nparks.gov.sg/cms/index.p...130&Itemid=128

    IAS

    http://www.nparks.gov.sg/cms/index.p...158&Itemid=129
    Nowhere in the link that you had provided and with specific reference to the list of alien species in Singapore is canine mentioned as an Invasive Alien Species (IAS).
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  11. #31
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Lets keep this a friendly discussion. In the nparks link for native mammals in SG, Canine is not listed so that makes it non-native. Am I right?

    Under the 2nd nparks link; 'Examples of intentional introduction', I quote:

    - Release of unwanted pets and aquarium animals into the wild (e.g. Red-eared Slider)
    - Plants introduced for gardens/landscaping
    - Biological control (e.g. House Crow)

    So if there are no native wild dogs in SG and some are found in the wild, can I come to the conclusion that these dogs are released by humans? Unwanted pets? If so, then the dogs can be classified as an IAS? Or maybe they swam across from Malaysia!?

  12. #32
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    Lets keep this a friendly discussion. In the nparks link for native mammals in SG, Canine is not listed so that makes it non-native. Am I right?

    Under the 2nd nparks link; 'Examples of intentional introduction', I quote:

    - Release of unwanted pets and aquarium animals into the wild (e.g. Red-eared Slider)
    - Plants introduced for gardens/landscaping
    - Biological control (e.g. House Crow)

    So if there are no native wild dogs in SG and some are found in the wild, can I come to the conclusion that these dogs are released by humans? Unwanted pets? If so, then the dogs can be classified as an IAS? Or maybe they swam across from Malaysia!?
    As I had posted twice previously in the first page of this thread, being a non-indigenous species does not automatically constitute it as invasive. Its introduction must have an adverse impact on the environment or economic (damages to agriculture and livestocks etc. etc.) to even be considered as such and as far as I'm concern the pack or two of canines in the SBWR are not resulting in any ill consequences to the habitat other than being a nuisance to the public.

    Sure they might bite your ass, but so does any other wild animals in the area.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    People people. This is Singapore a concrete island, not any big Australia or Malaysia. Dogs or cats or otters, sustain cannot be guaranteed in the future.

    Flora/fauna today, tomorrow highway just because there is a commercial need. You know the rules, someone needs to be injured before authorities can take action. If the dogs tear you into bits they die, if the otters scratch you into bits, they die.... simple.

    If otters and dogs can multiply into infestation level here, then pig can also climb the trees.

    Fish are much more resilient as they multiply readily in small spaces, that's why they are fish and not mammals.
    Last edited by spheredome; 23rd December 2009 at 02:08 PM.

  14. #34
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    As I had posted twice previously in the first page of this thread, being a non-indigenous species does not automatically constitute it as invasive. Its introduction must have an adverse impact on the environment or economic (damages to agriculture and livestocks etc. etc.) to even be considered as such and as far as I'm concern the pack or two of canines in the SBWR are not resulting in any ill consequences to the habitat other than being a nuisance to the public.

    Sure they might bite your ass, but so does any other wild animals in the area.
    You might be right but if one are to wait till a non-indigenous species to make an impact, displacing native species, in this case, against otters over territory, then wouldn't it be a bit too late?

    According to nparks, introduction of unwanted pets are considered as invasive alien species.

    lol if the dogs were to attack or bite someone's ass, u can be sure that it will be culled.

  15. #35
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by spheredome View Post
    People people. This is Singapore a concrete island, not any big Australia or Malaysia. Dogs or cats or otters, sustain cannot be guaranteed in the future.

    Flora/fauna today, tomorrow highway just because there is a commercial need. You know the rules, someone needs to be injured before authorities can take action. If the dogs tear you into bits they die, if the otters scratch you into bits, they die.... simple.

    If otters and dogs can multiply into infestation level here, then pig can also climb the trees.

    Fish are much more resilient as they multiply readily in small spaces, that's why they are fish and not mammals.
    Yes yes I wanted to say this! In this world $$$ talks! Its unfortunate but true. When USA got into the economic crisis, their government dug out more than a trillion dollars but when it comes to environment and climate change (as what happened in Copenhagen) everyone was arguing about $$$!

  16. #36
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    I dunno why I talked so much about otters and dogs. I want to go count my $$$. Cheers guys!

  17. #37
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    According to nparks, introduction of unwanted pets are considered as invasive alien species.
    You might want to re-read the self-contradicting links that Leong23 had previously posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by National Parks Singapore - Invasive Alien Species

    ...
    They become invasive when accidentally or deliberately introduced to new areas beyond their native ranges, and are able to survive, reproduce, and then spread and cause a negative impact on local biodiversity
    Quote Originally Posted by spheredome View Post
    Flora/fauna today, tomorrow highway just because there is a commercial need. You know the rules, someone needs to be injured before authorities can take action. If the dogs tear you into bits they die, if the otters scratch you into bits, they die.... simple.

    If otters and dogs can multiply into infestation level here, then pig can also climb the trees.
    Actually it depends on the kawaii factor (which also manifests itself in selective species conservation) of the animal in question, if you have a panda mauling and ripping the guts out a human being, public sympathy will flow towards the panda with accusations of provocation being poured on the victim.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 23rd December 2009 at 02:26 PM.
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  18. #38
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    You might want to re-read the self-contradicting links that Leong23 had previously posted.




    Actually it depends on the kawaii factor (which also manifests itself in selective species conservation) of the animal in question, if you have a panda mauling and ripping the guts out a human being, public sympathy will flow towards the panda with accusations of provocation being poured on the victim.
    Hmm.....those self-contradicting links are from nparks. They are the authority, not u or me. I understand what you are trying to say but I have confidence in dogs that they will survive and thrive in the wild and displace the otters as they are the decendents of wolves, formidible pack hunters.

    Ok la, really enough of otters and dogs. Cheers!

  19. #39

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    I understand very well from global nature perspective but SIN neh. If you see Panda, grizzly bears or elephants mauling people in sungei buloh then something it really wrong, then you will see humpback whales in S'pore river. And probably won't survive too long as it will get run over by a car or kayak.

    1 Panda cost 10 million for 5 years, 1 local cost only cost 100K So is it the money or the heart power. The Panda will get heat stroke, the grizzly bear will self surrender from the heat and the elephant.... army will deal with it

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Actually it depends on the kawaii factor (which also manifests itself in selective species conservation) of the animal in question, if you have a panda mauling and ripping the guts out a human being, public sympathy will flow towards the panda with accusations of provocation being poured on the victim.
    Last edited by spheredome; 23rd December 2009 at 03:32 PM.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    I dunno why I talked so much about otters and dogs. I want to go count my $$$. Cheers guys!
    LOL, i also enough for this ego game of them, this type of ego ego i must win things are always happening in CS, just let them win.

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