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Thread: Save otters from dog menace

  1. #1

    Default Save otters from dog menace

    saw his article http://www.straitstimes.com/STForum/...ry_465107.html
    hope the authority could do something. the issue is being push around like a ball
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    you may be able to protect the otters from dogs but you cant protect the otters from other predators. it is surviving in the wild.

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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Isn't this what a pack of canines does in the wild? Assessing its territorial supremacy on other packs or species perceived as a treat and so would the rational for culling or removing them be due to the fact that they are scaring the heebie-jeebies out of some cute and chubby otters?

    And who will protect the dogs when they start getting chomp down the throats of some crocodiles in the area?
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 22nd December 2009 at 10:39 PM.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Isn't this what a pack of canines does in the wild? Assessing its territorial supremacy on other packs or species perceived as a treat and so would the rational for culling or removing them be due to the fact that they are scaring the heebie-jeebies out of some cute and chubby otters?

    And who will protect the dogs when they start getting chomp down the throats of some crocodiles in the area?
    it is not about "cute and chubby otters". these are the only otters in the wild in Singapore. The dogs should not be there in the first place.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by bblurrr View Post
    it is not about "cute and chubby otters". these are the only otters in the wild in Singapore. The dogs should not be there in the first place.
    I agree with you. The dogs are not a natural habitat of the island. They were abandoned by some irresponsible owners.

    When left to survive on their own, they will be wild and untamed. There is a danger that they may attack human someday.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlim View Post
    I agree with you. The dogs are not a natural habitat of the island. They were abandoned by some irresponsible owners.

    When left to survive on their own, they will be wild and untamed. There is a danger that they may attack human someday.
    Quote Originally Posted by bblurrr View Post
    it is not about "cute and chubby otters". these are the only otters in the wild in Singapore. The dogs should not be there in the first place.
    Sorry i dont understand your logic. if you say these are the only otters in the wild in singapore then these otters are not a natural habitat of the island. they were probably abandoned by some irresponsible owners.

    ok cull the dogs because they were attacking otters. so if you see a rare white tiger attacking the otters, what next? cull the white tiger? the point is anything in the wild should be left in the wild. if you meddle too much with mother nature you get an imbalance.

    my point is we cant protect them from every threat. that is short of putting them in the zoo. they have to learn to survive in the wild.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    Sorry i dont understand your logic. if you say these are the only otters in the wild in singapore then these otters are not a natural habitat of the island. they were probably abandoned by some irresponsible owners.

    ok cull the dogs because they were attacking otters. so if you see a rare white tiger attacking the otters, what next? cull the white tiger? the point is anything in the wild should be left in the wild. if you meddle too much with mother nature you get an imbalance.

    my point is we cant protect them from every threat. that is short of putting them in the zoo. they have to learn to survive in the wild.
    You still don't understand? It's like human are hunting certain animals in the forest to the brim of extinction. Is human a natural habitat of the forest? Why is there a call for stop to such hunting?

    The same principle here, certain species doesn't belong to certain places.

    You know the LuoHan fish. Some people have abandoned them into our reservoir and that is going to upset the ecology of the natural habitat. The authority had told the public not to do so.

  8. #8
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    Sorry i dont understand your logic. if you say these are the only otters in the wild in singapore then these otters are not a natural habitat of the island. they were probably abandoned by some irresponsible owners.

    ok cull the dogs because they were attacking otters. so if you see a rare white tiger attacking the otters, what next? cull the white tiger? the point is anything in the wild should be left in the wild. if you meddle too much with mother nature you get an imbalance.

    my point is we cant protect them from every threat. that is short of putting them in the zoo. they have to learn to survive in the wild.
    Think u missed the point. In the Everglades, Florida, USA, the native American Gators are now facing a potential threat, pet Burmese Pythons that are abandoned by their owners. These Pythons are not native to US and only found in Asia. So according to the scientists, the pythons are competing with the Gators for food and dominance. These Pythons are no toy, they are very large snakes, so they pose a real threat to the animals in Florida, USA.

    I don't think SG has wild dogs. These dogs are probably abandoned strays that don't belong in that environment but then again, I don't know if those otters are native to SG.

    These are called introduced/invasive species. If not controlled, they can wipe out chunks of the eco system in the area affected.

    Here is a list on Wiki on invasive species and if u look closely, u will see human listed there too.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...animal_species
    Last edited by afbug; 23rd December 2009 at 11:00 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    The otters can take care of themselves in the water. It is the humans that is in danger of being attacked.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    Sorry i dont understand your logic. if you say these are the only otters in the wild in singapore then these otters are not a natural habitat of the island. they were probably abandoned by some irresponsible owners.

    ok cull the dogs because they were attacking otters. so if you see a rare white tiger attacking the otters, what next? cull the white tiger? the point is anything in the wild should be left in the wild. if you meddle too much with mother nature you get an imbalance.

    my point is we cant protect them from every threat. that is short of putting them in the zoo. they have to learn to survive in the wild.
    Those are wild otter and SBWR are their natural habitat. Get your fact right before commenting.

    Dogs are one of the invasive alien species (IAS) and IAS are main threats leading to our biodiversity loss.
    Last edited by Leong23; 23rd December 2009 at 11:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlim View Post
    There is a danger that they may attack human someday.
    And so does any other wild animals including the kawaii otters.

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    I don't think SG has wild dogs. These dogs are probably abandoned strays that don't belong in that environment but then again, I don't know if those otters are native to SG.

    These are called introduced/invasive species. If not controlled, they can wipe out chunks of the eco system in the area affected.
    Non-indigenous, yes. Invasive? Perhaps not.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    And so does any other wild animals including the kawaii otters.


    Non-indigenous, yes. Invasive? Perhaps not.
    You can be sure that even pet dogs attack human, if you read the news.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    And so does any other wild animals including the kawaii otters.


    Non-indigenous, yes. Invasive? Perhaps not.
    Many Non-indigenous will lead to invasive.

    Alien species’ refers to plants, animals and microorganisms that are exotic, non-native, introduced or non-indigenous, with respect to a particular ecosystem. They become invasive when accidentally or deliberately introduced to new areas beyond their native ranges, and are able to survive, reproduce, and then spread and cause a negative impact on local biodiversity

  14. #14
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    And so does any other wild animals including the kawaii otters.


    Non-indigenous, yes. Invasive? Perhaps not.
    If its non-indigenous, then its invasive unless invited. U probably dun agree that humans are invasive as well but u just have to look at what humans did to the oceans.

    If you ask me, i'm on the fence on such issues cos on 1 hand, these are invasive species but on the other hand, according to Darwin's theory of evolution, then its fair game, survival of the fittest. If the otters are native to SG, then I'm on the otter's side cos they are rarer and they dun have much land to call home. Dogs on the other hand are domesticated and are known as man's best friend, and so they should be helped and find a proper home for them.

    Lets say a common animal like dogs are threatening China's native Panda, what do u think they will do?

    Humans as an invasive species are different cos we can out smart most of the large creatures. So humans have to control ourselves, or else, many animals will be wiped out.
    Last edited by afbug; 23rd December 2009 at 11:44 AM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Leong23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    There are two species of Otters that are native in Singapore.

    Smooth Otter and Oriental small-clawed Otter.

    Those show in the above link are Smooth Otter.

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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    If its non-indigenous, then its invasive unless invited. U probably dun agree that humans are invasive as well but u just have to look at what humans did to the oceans.

    If you ask me, i'm on the fence on such issues cos on 1 hand, these are invasive species but on the other hand, according to Darwin's theory of evolution, then its fair game, survival of the fittest. If the otters are native to SG, then I'm on the otter's side cos they are rarer and they dun have much land to call home. Dogs on the other hand are domesticated and are known as man's best friend, and so they should be helped and find a proper home for them.

    Lets say a common animal like dogs are threatening China's native Panda, what do u think they will do?

    Humans as an invasive species are different cos we can out smart most of the large creatures. So humans have to control ourselves, or else, many animals will be wiped out.
    There are certain criteria to be fulfilled before a non-indigenous species can be considered invasive and the wild dogs in SBWR are currently not posing any significant threats to the existence of the otters other than asserting their territorial dominance on them.

    Make no mistake, I'm all for resettling or neutering the dogs but culling them as the article suggested is taking things too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by National Invasive Species Information Center, What is an Invasive Species?

    ...

    An "invasive species" is defined as a species that is

    1) non-native (or alien) to the ecosystem under consideration

    and

    2) whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to human health
    Quote Originally Posted by Invasive.Org, Invasive Species 101 - An Introduction to Invasive Species.

    ...

    An invasive species is a non-native species (including seeds, eggs, spores, or other propagules) whose introduction causes or is likely to cause economic harm, environmental harm, or harm to human health. The term "invasive"; is used for the most aggressive species. These species grow and reproduce rapidly, causing major disturbance to the areas in which they are present.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 23rd December 2009 at 12:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace


    Kawaii...!!!
    The otters want to play with the doggies.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    do you really think once this dogs are captured, they will be resettled. the answer is NO. they are going to be PUT DOWN. so you think it is fair to spare the otters and PUT THE DOGS DOWN????

  19. #19
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    There are certain criteria to be fulfilled before a non-indigenous species can be considered invasive and the wild dogs in SBWR are currently not posing any significant threats to the existence of the otters other than asserting their territorial dominence on them.

    Make no mistake, I'm all for resettling or neutering the dogs but culling them as the article suggested is taking things too far.
    The key word is territorial dominence. Think about it, if the dogs displaced the otters, then the otters have to find another place to call home, to raise their young and hunt. So the eco system had already been changed in this instance and if the otters can't find another home to reproduce/feed/hunt etc and go extinct in SG, then one can safetly say the environment is harmed. Humans as shown in the history books have fought over territory and the SAF exist precisely because of this reason. So territory can directly affect one's existance.

    Yes, I think dogs are man's best friend and should not be culled but if they are affecting the otters and threatening its existance, then they should be removed but I still prefer it not to be culled.

  20. #20
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Save otters from dog menace

    Quote Originally Posted by FireHouse View Post
    do you really think once this dogs are captured, they will be resettled. the answer is NO. they are going to be PUT DOWN. so you think it is fair to spare the otters and PUT THE DOGS DOWN????
    Life is never fair but one has to get his/her priorities right.

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