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Thread: SIM university

  1. #41
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    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    You want my frank answer? I think so. Here goes:

    UniSIM is not a recognized university though it seems so. What do I mean?

    If you want to further your education, that Bachelor's degree you get from UniSIM is not going to be worth anything. But this might depend on the course you're taking. But generally, it's pretty much worthless. There are many modules which full-time undergrads study but are not taught at UniSIM.

    Moreover, I don't know what sort of credentials UniSIM tutors and lecturers have. From the last I heard, they are nothing impressive. They get all the part-timers who come after their work to teach. In a full-time university, you get REAL academics with experience in research, teaching and publishing papers.

    But if you just want a paper, sure. Go to UniSIM.

    Honestly, I'm surprised the MOE recognizes UniSIM degrees. The only explanation I have is that they want the easy way out for their non-graduate teachers to upgrade their status so that they can earn higher salaries also. Imagine if non-grad teachers got to quit teaching and go to NUS to study maths full-time. Firstly, they will not get an income for several years. Secondly, I doubt they can cope with the rigorous pace of REAL undergraduate life. They left school for so long. University maths is a lot tougher than what they are used to.

    Put it this way: If you are already an A level holder teaching primary school math, getting a Bachelor's degree is not going to necessarily make you smarter or more effective in teaching primary level math. That paper is just to justify MOE to give them higher pay and recognition. Academically, the teachers are not up to the standards of a regular maths syllabus from a good university.

    It was not long ago when there was some hoo-hah where UniSIM was not recognized as Singapore's 3rd university. Instead, SMU was named the 3rd uni. I can't remember what crap reason was given. But it was something like UniSIM is sort of private "uni" or something. The REAL reason is that, it's not academically rigorous enough. It wasn't politically correct to state this openly of course.

    Honestly, unless you have special issues, like having to work early to support your family or such, the only reason why you'd choose UniSIM is that your A level grades are not good enough to get into the local unis, or you can't afford to spend $ to study overseas.

    But all is not lost. Like I said, if you just want a degree, UniSIM is the place to go. Whether your future is good or not depends a lot on other factors, like whether your employers accept your degree, your competency in non-academic areas in life, etc.

    If you want to get higher degrees, don't waste your time and money on UniSIM. The academic standards are just below what you'd get from a good university.

    Not sure about the 2 years NS though. But I have a strong feeling they do accept it. Think I read it somewhere.
    hey thanks for the insight. so is it correct to say that if i wanna take a private degree, UOL and RMIT wld be a better choice as compared to UniSIM?

  2. #42

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by auden09 View Post
    hey thanks for the insight. so is it correct to say that if i wanna take a private degree, UOL and RMIT wld be a better choice as compared to UniSIM?
    UOL & RMIT also using part time lecturers

  3. #43

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by auden09 View Post
    hey thanks for the insight. so is it correct to say that if i wanna take a private degree, UOL and RMIT wld be a better choice as compared to UniSIM?
    You're welcome.

    I'm not familiar with UOL or RMIT.

    There are several important factors you need to check regardless of which university you choose:

    1. How far do you want to go with the degree? If you don't foresee doing high degrees, then acceptance by local employers is probably good enough.

    Be careful when they use such words as "MOE recognized". MOE only recognize degrees for their teachers and staff. They are in no way responsible for what you want to do if you are not their staff. As I mentioned, UniSIM is a good example. It's "MOE recognized" but the courses there are generally sub-standard compared to a good full-time university. In a way it can be misleading, cos some people think Wow, there is a backing from MOE so it must be a good degree. On the contrary, NO!

    2. Check out the syllabus and compare with other full time universities, be it local (NUS/NTU/SMU) or overseas. For a good course, they should be somewhat similar in content and bulk.

    3. Scout around and see how graduates from that university are generally doing. The worst that can happen is you spend so much time and money for your course only to realize employers don't really favour your degree. There are jobs which may not place so much emphasis on where you get the degree from so if that's the case, it's not so critical which uni you choose. But still, be careful cos it's hard to predict where you want to go say 10 years from now.

    4. Check out the credentials of the lecturers and tutors if possible.

    Coming back to the UniSIM case, the degree is mainly for general workers who want to get that cert to get higher pay and have no intention to go further, and people who study for leisure (think retirees, people who simply love studying, people who can afford to spend $ and take their time to learn without a desire to change careers, etc).

    If you want a good solid degree that is recognized here and overseas, or if you have the intention to study further, a UniSIM degree is not worth much.
    Last edited by kiwi2; 17th December 2009 at 02:45 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    You want my frank answer? I think so. Here goes:

    UniSIM is not a recognized university though it seems so. What do I mean?

    If you want to further your education, that Bachelor's degree you get from UniSIM is not going to be worth anything. But this might depend on the course you're taking. But generally, it's pretty much worthless. There are many modules which full-time undergrads study but are not taught at UniSIM.

    Moreover, I don't know what sort of credentials UniSIM tutors and lecturers have. From the last I heard, they are nothing impressive. They get all the part-timers who come after their work to teach. In a full-time university, you get REAL academics with experience in research, teaching and publishing papers.

    But if you just want a paper, sure. Go to UniSIM.

    Honestly, I'm surprised the MOE recognizes UniSIM degrees. The only explanation I have is that they want the easy way out for their non-graduate teachers to upgrade their status so that they can earn higher salaries also. Imagine if non-grad teachers got to quit teaching and go to NUS to study maths full-time. Firstly, they will not get an income for several years. Secondly, I doubt they can cope with the rigorous pace of REAL undergraduate life. They left school for so long. University maths is a lot tougher than what they are used to.

    Put it this way: If you are already an A level holder teaching primary school math, getting a Bachelor's degree is not going to necessarily make you smarter or more effective in teaching primary level math. That paper is just to justify MOE to give them higher pay and recognition. Academically, the teachers are not up to the standards of a regular maths syllabus from a good university.

    It was not long ago when there was some hoo-hah where UniSIM was not recognized as Singapore's 3rd university. Instead, SMU was named the 3rd uni. I can't remember what crap reason was given. But it was something like UniSIM is sort of private "uni" or something. The REAL reason is that, it's not academically rigorous enough. It wasn't politically correct to state this openly of course.

    Honestly, unless you have special issues, like having to work early to support your family or such, the only reason why you'd choose UniSIM is that your A level grades are not good enough to get into the local unis, or you can't afford to spend $ to study overseas.

    But all is not lost. Like I said, if you just want a degree, UniSIM is the place to go. Whether your future is good or not depends a lot on other factors, like whether your employers accept your degree, your competency in non-academic areas in life, etc.

    If you want to get higher degrees, don't waste your time and money on UniSIM. The academic standards are just below what you'd get from a good university.

    Not sure about the 2 years NS though. But I have a strong feeling they do accept it. Think I read it somewhere.
    I think you need to use disclaimers in the types of courses you pass your judgments upon also. Especially if you do not have the actual facts of what the school offers. Whether it is MOE's excuse to have an easy route to upgrade their teachers or that they were unable to secure the "3rd university" status, it is still what the students brings out from their course of study.

    Comparing our local universities like, NUS,NTU,SMU to a private institution is like comparing apples vs oranges. The structure, the students (age, work experiences etc), the types, genre of courses offered, they are all quite different.

    You've also forgetten to mention the part where UniSim students are given 40% subsidy from the government while i didn't hear these being offered to other private institutions. Our government throwing taxpayer's money into a not-so-good-school?

    By the way, yes UniSIM's degrees are recognised and have already been readily accepted by our civil service (of course you'll always be benched marked against our other local universities, this is where you have to find other areas where you value add to the position you are applying for - work experiences etc). From what i hear, out in the private sector, your certs from most universities are readily accepted but the question would be why would your potential employer pick you over another.

    No denying that there will always be another university, another school, another place where a better education can be seeked, by all means (and with all means), go ahead. Given the options in SG, AND choosing between all the available private institutions, there are reasons why UniSIM stands out.

    By the way, maybe it is also the types of degree that differs on the types of lecturers or tutors being hired. I've been with SIM (then only) and now UniSIM for years and the lecturers and tutors i've goton were all top notched with direct, relevant work experiences on the field. My lecturers are always ready to share their experiences, translate them and connect them with theories and how it relates to real life work demands. Having those, it definitely value adds tremendously to what i'm studying and prepares me for the work to come (in actual and not just class room based). Of course they are also a great, even excellent channel of networking since most of them have a FULL TIME position in their relevant industry (with quite some years of direct work experiences).

    As compared to the horror stories i hear from my other colleagues of academics only interested in their own field of research and thus tagging along a university for the funding sake. Most of them can't teach, are not in touch with what the field requires or the changes in them, with a total inability to communicate not to mention, teach. Not bashing all lecturers, but i believe we need to leave room for variations of both to be fair.

    To TS, find out more from people who have been into the courses you are interested in and by all means visit their website, call them up, visit them during open house (should be in Jan or Feb) and get all the information you need before making that decision. Its quite a sum of money and of course time ahead. Never stop learning, lest you think you've seen it all.

    Feel free to PM me if you need any form of information in regards to UniSIM. I'm most willing to help if i'm in a position to.

    All the best!
    Licence to shoot.

  5. #45

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by xhui View Post
    I think you need to use disclaimers in the types of courses you pass your judgments upon also. Especially if you do not have the actual facts of what the school offers. Whether it is MOE's excuse to have an easy route to upgrade their teachers or that they were unable to secure the "3rd university" status, it is still what the students brings out from their course of study.

    Comparing our local universities like, NUS,NTU,SMU to a private institution is like comparing apples vs oranges. The structure, the students (age, work experiences etc), the types, genre of courses offered, they are all quite different.

    You've also forgetten to mention the part where UniSim students are given 40% subsidy from the government while i didn't hear these being offered to other private institutions. Our government throwing taxpayer's money into a not-so-good-school?

    By the way, yes UniSIM's degrees are recognised and have already been readily accepted by our civil service (of course you'll always be benched marked against our other local universities, this is where you have to find other areas where you value add to the position you are applying for - work experiences etc). From what i hear, out in the private sector, your certs from most universities are readily accepted but the question would be why would your potential employer pick you over another.

    No denying that there will always be another university, another school, another place where a better education can be seeked, by all means (and with all means), go ahead. Given the options in SG, AND choosing between all the available private institutions, there are reasons why UniSIM stands out.

    By the way, maybe it is also the types of degree that differs on the types of lecturers or tutors being hired. I've been with SIM (then only) and now UniSIM for years and the lecturers and tutors i've goton were all top notched with direct, relevant work experiences on the field. My lecturers are always ready to share their experiences, translate them and connect them with theories and how it relates to real life work demands. Having those, it definitely value adds tremendously to what i'm studying and prepares me for the work to come (in actual and not just class room based). Of course they are also a great, even excellent channel of networking since most of them have a FULL TIME position in their relevant industry (with quite some years of direct work experiences).

    As compared to the horror stories i hear from my other colleagues of academics only interested in their own field of research and thus tagging along a university for the funding sake. Most of them can't teach, are not in touch with what the field requires or the changes in them, with a total inability to communicate not to mention, teach. Not bashing all lecturers, but i believe we need to leave room for variations of both to be fair.

    To TS, find out more from people who have been into the courses you are interested in and by all means visit their website, call them up, visit them during open house (should be in Jan or Feb) and get all the information you need before making that decision. Its quite a sum of money and of course time ahead. Never stop learning, lest you think you've seen it all.

    Feel free to PM me if you need any form of information in regards to UniSIM. I'm most willing to help if i'm in a position to.

    All the best!
    Please read the 3rd paragraph where you quoted me. Did I not mention "But this might depend on the course you're taking?" ??

    I think you misquoted me by saying UniSIM is a "not-so-good-school". All I've been stating are facts. Let me re-explain if you didn't get my point. If you want to get a UniSIM degree, know what it is worth and where it can (or cannot) take you. Did I not mention several cases where a UniSIM degree might be "useable"? Eg, if you are a non-grad and want to get a degree only to earn higher pay, or if you want to study for leisure, or if the employer doesn't put too much emphasis on where you get the degree from?

    There's nothing wrong to compare the course structure of NUS/NTU/SMU with UniSIM. A university, whether full time or part-time or private, is a university. What's the point of studying in an institution only to realize you can't go further than what you want (if that's your desire) because what you have studied is not complete or rigorous enough? Again, this is a factual comparison, nothing subjective about it.

    The key point I'm driving home is "how rigorous is the course"? I did not say that UniSIM is absolutely lousy. An undergraduate has the right to know what he is getting into based on the amount of $ and time he will spend on the course. Many of the points I've raised will not be mentioned by the authorities and are often overlooked by over-anxious students who simply want to get a place into a university.

    So what if there is a 40% subsidy? It's not quite related to the issue I'm discussing, which is how far can that piece of paper take you to, aka the topic of how rigourous the course is again. These days, the in-thing is for people to get degrees. Singapore is trying to get as many people to get a degree if possible, whether or not that means a better life. Well, at least it gives it the impression of an educated nation.

    Again, I reiterate, if you fall into the categories I've mentioned, getting a UniSIM degree (or from other such universities for that matter) is not so much an issue perhaps. I can't assume I know what auden09 (or other people in his position) wants out of his degree right? Therefore, I gave a full discussion of the worthiness of a UniSIM degree. After that, it's up to the individual to decide what he or she wants.
    Last edited by kiwi2; 17th December 2009 at 03:45 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by auden09 View Post
    i was thinking UOL and university of manchester which are ranked pretty well in the world. RMIT isn't a good option i think. world ranking 233...that's madness. the rest...not even in the list.
    rankings are really not representative of anything very concrete.

  7. #47

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

    But if you just want a paper, sure. Go to UniSIM.
    i'll be fair, uniSIM seems to be more rigorous than places like MDIS

  8. #48

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    i'll be fair, uniSIM seems to be more rigorous than places like MDIS
    Wow, that's bad, man....

    I really don't know. Seems like a university education these days is so commercialized. People are literally buying degrees, though in a legal way (not the scam type). Flip the newspapers and practically every other page will have degrees from this and that uni.

    Back in the 80's and before, only good grades can guarantee one passport to a place in the uni. Nowadays, unis seemingly accept applicants with bare minimum criteria, and $ plays an important factor in their motivation to do so.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: SIM university

    u want to know the real ranking of uni ? it depends which country u studied

    1) United Kingdom
    2) United States

    ... followed by the rest

    however.. globally, it doesn't matter when your experience is seen valuable rich and in demand
    Last edited by raincool2005; 17th December 2009 at 07:30 PM.

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    Default Re: SIM university

    what u guys think about a degree in management vs a degree in economics?
    i was told by many working ppl that it's better to take a specialized degree instead of a general one like business. why is that so?

    guys, i feel that without some reputable cert...employers won't even so much so as look further into your resume much less call u up for an interview. the paper is still pretty impt. although there are some "mickey mouse" degrees ard, i'm sure employers from civil sector to private all know how to filter the not-so-recognised 1 year fast track degrees. and i agree that for most cases, its easy to get into a private degree course...but coming out from it isn't as easy as getting in. u'd still haf to go thru the same papers, burn the same midnight oil as the people from the local Us. that is why, i believe UOL and RMIT grads are getting employed too.

  11. #51

    Default Re: SIM university

    If you are not going for any of the top 5% university in the world, I don't see much difference. Just choose those universities which are marketable in this region if you plan to work here.

    Remember, in life LUCK play an important part than qualification and capability. You can be highly qualify and capable, but if you are always down on luck, nothing can help you.

    My 2 cents worth of input.

  12. #52

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    I really don't know. Seems like a university education these days is so commercialized. People are literally buying degrees, though in a legal way (not the scam type). Flip the newspapers and practically every other page will have degrees from this and that uni.
    i had enquired at mdis desk at one of those expo style exhibitions a few years back

    the standard reply seemed to have everything and anything to do with only tuition fees

    ask if degree recognised, the person there would rattle on and then chirp about something to do with payment of fees.

    ask about lecturers, same thing happens

    after a while i sort of got the idea, thanked them and left quickly

  13. #53
    Senior Member limwhow's Avatar
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    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    If you are not going for any of the top 5% university in the world, I don't see much difference. Just choose those universities which are marketable in this region if you plan to work here.

    Remember, in life LUCK play an important part than qualification and capability. You can be highly qualify and capable, but if you are always down on luck, nothing can help you.

    My 2 cents worth of input.
    I cannot help but agree whole-heartedly here with scanner. Luck is surely an important factor.
    In addition to that, the lucky staff's employer will look always out for:
    - a positive outlook
    - a positive, cheerful pre-disposition
    - a never-say-die, non-calculative, willing-to-try-anything attitude

    He will think: "Sure this guy has a local degree. Not one of those spectacular ones. But hey, look at him. He's a go-getter. And he doesn't ask for an unreasonable amount of pay, and yet is willing to work doubly hard and is not calculative. I can groom him for my marketing department."
    And the lucky guy gets his job.
    But of course, he's got to work his butts off. There is no free lunch in this modern society.

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    Default Re: SIM university

    so it doesn't matter wad degree i'm taking? cuz im deciding between econs, business and management and i have no idea which one to choose from. i haf interest in all three of them but i wld like to find out which one wld be most useful in finding a job outside. eg. i know that business degree is very common these days, so marketibility of a business grad from a private uni may not be high anymore. need some advice from u guys now...

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    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by limwhow View Post
    I cannot help but agree whole-heartedly here with scanner. Luck is surely an important factor.
    In addition to that, the lucky staff's employer will look always out for:
    - a positive outlook
    - a positive, cheerful pre-disposition
    - a never-say-die, non-calculative, willing-to-try-anything attitude
    talk about luck...i was luckless for a quarter...had my mum nag at me for basically for 4 months.
    all this stop until i turned to my last desperate choice...msn.
    how did i know a secondary sch friend i haven't meet up with for a long time, offered me a job lobang.

    out of the 3 factors you listed, basically i only have one thing in common which is the never say die attitude.
    since i was so unlucky for so long, i was ready to try anything even if is out of a sector i'm interested in.
    my motto is when times are hard, you need to be even tougher than a cockroach.

    and i was also lucky that the employer is quite cheerful in a sense that he joked around more than me in the interview.
    so naturally i open up and started to be more cheerful as well and didn't really ask for an unreasonable starting pay.

    this recession has taught me that once i threw my pride away, basically you can do anything.
    had i not pull some strings, perhaps i still would be jobless now.
    for this i'm greatful towards my friend and will have to give her a fat hong bao come jan next year as her newborn will be approaching his 1st month.
    Last edited by Simon_84; 18th December 2009 at 10:47 AM.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by auden09 View Post
    so it doesn't matter wad degree i'm taking? cuz im deciding between econs, business and management and i have no idea which one to choose from. i haf interest in all three of them but i wld like to find out which one wld be most useful in finding a job outside. eg. i know that business degree is very common these days, so marketibility of a business grad from a private uni may not be high anymore. need some advice from u guys now...
    i suggest you do more research first cause right now you are very unsure what "YOU" want to do.
    if you are still confused, why not you go out to the market and work first before deciding ?
    that's the best way to know about the job market current trends.

    i initially wanted to go for a business course in UOL, paid up the application fee then crap happens, paid for unisim application fees as well, end up got defer for a sem.
    unhappy with the unisim style, now i end up in rmit.

    my cousin whose from a business dip told me is better to specialize in a single field of studies rather than to be in jack of all trades but master of none.

  17. #57

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    i had enquired at mdis desk at one of those expo style exhibitions a few years back

    the standard reply seemed to have everything and anything to do with only tuition fees

    ask if degree recognised, the person there would rattle on and then chirp about something to do with payment of fees.

    ask about lecturers, same thing happens

    after a while i sort of got the idea, thanked them and left quickly
    Hmmm... smart move on your part.

    Yes, nowadays, for many of these "commercialized" institutions, they seem more interested in getting $ from unsuspecting students than caring about their learning and increasing their knowledge.

    I empathize those students who blindly sign up cos they are so desperate to want to have that paper.

  18. #58

    Default Re: SIM university

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Please read the 3rd paragraph where you quoted me. Did I not mention "But this might depend on the course you're taking?" ??

    I think you misquoted me by saying UniSIM is a "not-so-good-school". All I've been stating are facts. Let me re-explain if you didn't get my point. If you want to get a UniSIM degree, know what it is worth and where it can (or cannot) take you. Did I not mention several cases where a UniSIM degree might be "useable"? Eg, if you are a non-grad and want to get a degree only to earn higher pay, or if you want to study for leisure, or if the employer doesn't put too much emphasis on where you get the degree from?
    ....
    I apologise if I was seen as being too harsh. I'm just speaking from my personal experience with the school. I guess when you say it depends on the courses then you went on to mention about the school and it's inability to secure the "4th uni"'s name gives the impression that bends towards the negative a tad more.

    But i still see and believe thereof that UniSIM certs do "bring" me places as i've almost secured a Masters program and several places where i can further my education with a UniSIM degree. And maybe the civil service don't put much emphasis on where you get your degree, but they do and had hired UniSIM students. So it really depends on alot of other factors i guess..

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    ...
    There's nothing wrong to compare the course structure of NUS/NTU/SMU with UniSIM. A university, whether full time or part-time or private, is a university. What's the point of studying in an institution only to realize you can't go further than what you want (if that's your desire) because what you have studied is not complete or rigorous enough? Again, this is a factual comparison, nothing subjective about it.

    The key point I'm driving home is "how rigorous is the course"? I did not say that UniSIM is absolutely lousy. An undergraduate has the right to know what he is getting into based on the amount of $ and time he will spend on the course. Many of the points I've raised will not be mentioned by the authorities and are often overlooked by over-anxious students who simply want to get a place into a university.
    ...
    I agree there that's obsolutely nothing wrong in comparing the course structure and sorts with our local unis. But considering the target audience/students and population and where most of they are coming from, there are definite differences in the structure, the delivery and alot more factors. So what i'm basically saying is that, it's pretty apples vs oranges.

    Having said that, i still don't believe these should give excuses for the private universities to not have a certain standard to meet in terms of what the industry needs and in meeting them. As i can atest at least for my experiences, the contents, delivery, rigourousity of my course is definitely on par or even much more then what others are offering. At the end of the day, the students decide if what they've been taught/offered will help/assist and are relevant to their job industry (which again only those who've been working/worked would roughly know what they require). And of course, disclaimer is given for all other factors to the employability of an individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    ..
    So what if there is a 40% subsidy? It's not quite related to the issue I'm discussing, which is how far can that piece of paper take you to, aka the topic of how rigourous the course is again. These days, the in-thing is for people to get degrees. Singapore is trying to get as many people to get a degree if possible, whether or not that means a better life. Well, at least it gives it the impression of an educated nation.

    Again, I reiterate, if you fall into the categories I've mentioned, getting a UniSIM degree (or from other such universities for that matter) is not so much an issue perhaps. I can't assume I know what auden09 (or other people in his position) wants out of his degree right? Therefore, I gave a full discussion of the worthiness of a UniSIM degree. After that, it's up to the individual to decide what he or she wants.
    I did not mention the subsidy to give room for an excuse to say UniSIM is then a good school or whatso. I'm just pointing out that, all these factors (money is definitely a big one) does and should be something one consider when he/she decides for their education path. For the government to fork out that sum of money (yes, tax payers'), maybe call me ignorant, but i believe there's some merits to consider in that.

    At the end of the day, I think both of us (and everyone for that matter) agree wholeheartedly that one has to do their homework thoroughly before embarking on their next step on where they would plonk their cash, time, energy etc. Working adults, with children or not and full time students at different stages are indeed some major factors to think about which will shape the kinds and types of courses one decides to start with.
    Licence to shoot.

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    Default Re: SIM university

    guys once again thank u so much for your insights.

  20. #60

    Default Re: SIM university

    May i suggest econs followed by CFA (professional cert)? Only if you are really interested in the financial aspects of things.

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