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Thread: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

  1. #21

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    if shooting night photography, u need a combination of stabilizer + ISO in order to use handheld shots. Im sure you already understand why ur pictures are blur. No choice, u hv to use tripod.

    This is one reason why I advise people to get stabilizer in camera sensor instead of in lens. With sensor stabilizer, you will hv IS with wide angel lenses...

    canon and nikon don wanna release IS on wide angle lenses, making them at a disadvantage over Pentax and Sony users.

    0.6 secs shutter speed on a wide angel lens, with image stabilizer actually can don use tripod. Assuming using 16mm, then with 3 fstop compensation from IS, it allows a shutter speed of 1/2s to be used.
    Last edited by android17; 11th December 2009 at 10:46 PM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    haul that tripod with you and be rewarded.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by android17 View Post
    if shooting night photography, u need a combination of stabilizer + ISO in order to use handheld shots. Im sure you already understand why ur pictures are blur. No choice, u hv to use tripod.

    This is one reason why I advise people to get stabilizer in camera sensor instead of in lens. With sensor stabilizer, you will hv IS with wide angel lenses...

    canon and nikon don wanna release IS on wide angle lenses, making them at a disadvantage over Pentax and Sony users.

    0.6 secs shutter speed on a wide angel lens, with image stabilizer actually can don use tripod. Assuming using 16mm, then with 3 fstop compensation from IS, it allows a shutter speed of 1/2s to be used.

    I suggest you do a comparison between 1/2 sec handheld and 1/2 on tripod and see what you get.....

  4. #24

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by android17 View Post
    if shooting night photography, u need a combination of stabilizer + ISO in order to use handheld shots. Im sure you already understand why ur pictures are blur. No choice, u hv to use tripod.

    This is one reason why I advise people to get stabilizer in camera sensor instead of in lens. With sensor stabilizer, you will hv IS with wide angel lenses...

    canon and nikon don wanna release IS on wide angle lenses, making them at a disadvantage over Pentax and Sony users.

    0.6 secs shutter speed on a wide angel lens, with image stabilizer actually can don use tripod. Assuming using 16mm, then with 3 fstop compensation from IS, it allows a shutter speed of 1/2s to be used.
    stabilizer in camera sensor?? i thot dslr camera is depend on lens stabilizer
    500D/50mm f1.4/90mm macro/17-55mm/EX580 II
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  5. #25

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    I suggest you do a comparison between 1/2 sec handheld and 1/2 on tripod and see what you get.....
    ya i am trying now..shooting with a tripod ...at my home backyard...lolz
    500D/50mm f1.4/90mm macro/17-55mm/EX580 II
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by rysouke View Post
    stabilizer in camera sensor?? i thot dslr camera is depend on lens stabilizer
    Some manufacturer (Sony) installed the stabilizer module in camera but you don't have to pay attention to that. Those will not help you one bit.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by rysouke View Post
    stabilizer in camera sensor?? i thot dslr camera is depend on lens stabilizer
    there are 2 types of image stabilizer technology. Lens stabalization and Sensor stabalization.

    Take a look at this video to better understand them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io

    Canon and Nikon uses the lens stabilizer. This technology requires the lens to hv stabilizer build into their lens. And due to this reason, the lens will be very expensive, not to mention that every lens u buy, u hv to think hard on whether to buy stabilizer or not, and where to pay extra. And of cos the worse problem is, even if you have tons of money, there are alot of lenses that dont come with stabilizer version.

    Sony and Pentax uses a better stabilization technology, the sensor IS. With this sensor Is, the vibration compensation is done on the sensor. As such, any lens that is attached to a Sony or Pentax DSLR automatically becomes an IS lens. It doesnt matter if its an ultra wide angle 10mm lens, or a super old manual focus only lens. They all become IS lens. So if a Sony user buys a 50 year old manual focus lens and mount it onto the Sony Alpha DSLR via adaptor, the lens becomes stabalized. This sensor techology also saves money for the user as they wont have the need to buy IS lens at all. For example, recently Tamron released the VC version of the 17-50mm f2.8 lens which im sure you know, is a popular lens among Canon, Nikon and Sony users. Canon and Nikon users will need to pay $940 to buy a Tamron 17-50 VC lens, whereas Sony users just buy the non VC version for $610 and still enjoy image stabalizer.

    Im pretty sure Canon and Nikon can build IS into their camera body. It isnt a new technology. However they will never do something like that, as it will mean a very big lost of profit for them from the sales of IS lenses.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    Some manufacturer (Sony) installed the stabilizer module in camera but you don't have to pay attention to that. Those will not help you one bit.
    Please come out with some facts before you post.

    Take a look at this video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io

    Proof that Sensor IS works just as well, if not better, than lens IS.

    With sensor IS, the vibration compensation is constant, no matter what lens you use.

    With lens IS, it will depend on the lens itself, as lenses with higher focal length will likely be harder to stabilize and thus IS might not work as well on them.

    So sensor IS > lens IS in this way as it is constant, vs the variable nature of lens IS.

    And the best thing? Cameras with sensor IS can turn OFF their sensor IS and use lens IS if they want to, as you can see from the video. They have the option to choose which IS to use, rather than to be stuck with no choice.
    Last edited by android17; 11th December 2009 at 11:02 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by android17 View Post
    Take a look at this video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io

    Proof that Sensor IS works just as well, if not better, than lens IS.

    With sensor IS, the vibration compensation is constant, no matter what lens you use.

    With lens IS, it will depend on the lens itself, as lenses with higher focal length will likely be harder to stabilize and thus IS might not work as well on them.

    So sensor IS > lens IS in this way as it is constant, vs the variable lens IS.

    And the best thing? Cameras with sensor IS can turn OFF their sensor IS and use lens IS if they want to, as you can see from the video. They have the option to choose which IS to use, rather than to be stuck with no choice.
    I don't have to take a look at anything to tell you that your claim on using a shutter speed of 1/2sec with IS is absolutely hogwash.

    Its common sense really. There is a limit to how much your hands can handhold because they are constantly shaking, regardless of how much the IS module can compensate. Its breaking your IS bubble but its just not going to work the way you think.

    I say this again, the good o' tripod provides more than just a stable base to take photos with and that, no IS/VR/fill-in-the-blanks can replicate. You can use the technology to your advantage only if you understand it.
    Last edited by Kit; 11th December 2009 at 11:06 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by android17 View Post
    Please come out with some facts before you post.

    Take a look at this video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io

    Proof that Sensor IS works just as well, if not better, than lens IS.

    With sensor IS, the vibration compensation is constant, no matter what lens you use.

    With lens IS, it will depend on the lens itself, as lenses with higher focal length will likely be harder to stabilize and thus IS might not work as well on them.

    So sensor IS > lens IS in this way as it is constant, vs the variable nature of lens IS.

    And the best thing? Cameras with sensor IS can turn OFF their sensor IS and use lens IS if they want to, as you can see from the video. They have the option to choose which IS to use, rather than to be stuck with no choice.
    and I would really love to see that 1/2 sec photo of yours......

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    frankly, can all those current IS/VR/OS/VC technologies compensate enough for a 5 minutes exposure? can FX / 35mm full frame sensor cut a 5 minutes exposure to less than 1 seconds? 5 minutes exposure is normal for nature photography (non-city scape)...

    if all your answer is yes, save the money for an expensive camera body... if not, buy a decent tripod that would last for your lifetime...

    hope this helps...

  12. #32

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    I don't have to take a look at anything to tell you that your claim on using a shutter speed of 1/2sec with IS is absolutely hogwash.

    Its common sense really. There is a limit to how much your hands can handhold because they are constantly shaking, regardless of how much the IS module can compensate. Its breaking your IS bubble but its just not going to work the way you think.

    I say this again, the good o' tripod provides more than just a stable base to take photos with and that, no IS/VR/fill-in-the-blanks can replicate. You can use the technology to your advantage only if you understand it.
    Im not debating that tripod works better than IS. Of cos it does, everyone knows that.

    Im saying that in a situation without tripod, at least IS will still allows u to take pictures better than not having IS. Say you are having your DSLR and walking around and suddenly a nice scene comes up, and you have no tripod. You metered the scene, and your camera displays 1/2s shutter speed, at widest aperture and ISO already at 1600. What do you do? Try to take the picture even though shutter speed is so low? Or walk away?

    I can bet that a camera with sensor IS can take sharper pictures than a camera without IS on a wide angel lens of around 16mm and at a shutter speed of 1/2.
    Last edited by android17; 11th December 2009 at 11:14 PM.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by android17 View Post
    Im not debating that tripod works better than IS. Of cos it does, everyone knows that.

    Im saying without tripod, but with IS, at least it will still allows u to take pictures better than not having IS.

    I can bet that a camera with sensor IS can take sharper pictures than a camera without IS on a wide angel lens of around 16mm and at a shutter speed of 1/2.
    Fine if you can live with compromises, that's your perogative. But I'm sure this community would appreciate it if those who didn't know better can stop spreading ill informed information around.

    I'm don't know how much better a 1/2sec exposure with IS is better than one without but I sure know both will not yield useable results. Your mileage may vary.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    and I would really love to see that 1/2 sec photo of yours......
    lets both try and use a 16mm lens to take a picture at 1/2 sec and see whose is sharper

  15. #35
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by android17 View Post
    Im not debating that tripod works better than IS. Of cos it does, everyone knows that.

    Im saying that in a situation without tripod, at least IS will still allows u to take pictures better than not having IS. Say you are having your DSLR and walking around and suddenly a nice scene comes up, and you have no tripod. You metered the scene, and your camera displays 1/2s shutter speed, at widest aperture and ISO already at 1600. What do you do? Try to take the picture even though shutter speed is so low? Or walk away?

    I can bet that a camera with sensor IS can take sharper pictures than a camera without IS on a wide angel lens of around 16mm and at a shutter speed of 1/2.
    What good will a nice scene do if you can't capture it proper?

  16. #36
    Senior Member Kit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by android17 View Post
    lets both try and use a 16mm lens to take a picture at 1/2 sec and see whose is sharper
    Well if you believe you can win, its yours to take. I wouldn't even waste my time on that.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    and I would really love to see that 1/2 sec photo of yours......
    Quote Originally Posted by Kit View Post
    I don't have to take a look at anything to tell you that your claim on using a shutter speed of 1/2sec with IS is absolutely hogwash.


    TS shoots 0.6secs without IS and pics came out blurry. So i used slightly slower, 0.5secs.

    Both shots taken a few mins ago, handheld. Picture resized but no other PP was done.

    And im NOT using any IS lens. This is purely my camera's sensor IS.

    Ive left my Exif info intact, just incase u need proof that i did indeed shoot at 1/2s shutter speed.

    Without IS


    With IS


    Focal point is the P sign
    Last edited by android17; 11th December 2009 at 11:52 PM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    100% crop of the focal point

    No prize for guessing which one has IS turned on.





    So does sensor IS work? Is it better to shoot without IS or with sensor IS?

    You be the judge.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    I attempted a night shoot of Christmas lights without a tripod and it was a dismal failure :-(

  20. #40

    Default Re: Is a tripod a "MUST" for night photography??

    Anyone who still hv doubts about sensor IS, pls watch this video again.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPdy52mR6Io

    Dont just take some random guy's baseless assumption. See for yourself if sensor IS is useless or does it work.

    I stress again. I have never claimed that IS works better than tripod. I said in a situation without tripod, at least having IS is better than not having IS.

    A proper combination of fast aperture, ISO setting, focal length and Image Stabilization can help achieve usable pictures in certain low light conditions, in the event that a tripod is not available.
    Last edited by android17; 11th December 2009 at 11:58 PM.

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