What is the cheapest setup for these 2 MF setups

[Diablo]

1) Mamiya 645E + std lens + magazine
(According to Mamiya site, it comes with a builtin TTL AE meter right?)

2) Hassy 501CW + std lens + magazine
(Im not sure what's the basic hassy 500 series that comes with a builtin TTL meter)

Another qn is, suppose we take our metering off a 35mm SLR, can we apply the same setting to a MF setup?

[Pro Image]

It is obvious which is cheaper.

One is made in Japan and another is made in Germany and Sweden.......miss that out! (thanks for pointing that out for me chgoh!)

It's like comparing Leicas and Nikons/Canons

It's is better if you use a light meter. If u can purchase the above, you shud hv no problem getting a light meter as it's not very ex. Reading from 35mm is ok but sometimes it is still not very accurate.

It's more up to you how comfortable you feel. Hassy is 6X6 format which is square and Mamiya 645 is 6X4.5 which is a rectangular format which caters more to Portrait shooting. Not that Hassy is unable to shoot portraits but lesser shots.

6X6 will give you 12 shots
6X4.5 will give you 16 shots

Try not to rely too much on TTL metering. My advice is get a light meter as it is more accurate.

Depends what you like to shoot, choosing a system which fits your needs is more important. Hassy tends to cost more on their lenses if you want to upgrade your lenses in the future.

[chgoh]

Originally Posted by Pro Image It is obvious which is cheaper. One is made in Japan and another is made in Germany. It's like comparing Leicas and Nikons/Canons It's is better if you use a light meter. If u can purchase the above, you shud hv no problem getting a light meter as it's not very ex. Reading from 35mm is ok but sometimes it is still not very accurate. It's more up to you how comfortable you feel. Hassy is 6X6 format which is square and Mamiya 645 is 6X4.5 which is a rectangular format which caters more to Potrait shooting. Not that Hassy is unable to shoot portraits but lesser shots. 6X6 will give you 12 shots 6X4.5 will give you 16 shots Try not to rely too much on TTL metering. My advice is get a light meter as it is more accurate. Depends what you like to shoot, choosing a system which fits your needs is more important. Hassy tends to cost more on their lenses if you want to upgrade your lenses in the future.

erm.... Hasselbalds are made in Sweden, the Carl Zeiss lenses are made in Germany. There is the A16 magazine on the Hasselblads that does 6x4.5.

chgoh @ 7:34am on 13 Feb 2004

[Diablo]

Thanks guys

Roughly how much am I lookin at for these 2 setups?

For the hassy, is it possible to take 6*4.5 by changing the magazine back or something?

Which lightmeters would be suitable for general use, be it for 35mm or MF SLR systems?

[chgoh]

I'm not familiar with Mamiya prices, but definitely Pro Image is right. The Hasselblad is going to be a hard decision when compared with the M645 on price. For new prices you could checkout our Singapore favourite photo stores or on the web at hksupplies.com.

A point to note is that the 645E is a focal plane shutter whereas the Hasselblads uses leaf shutter in the lens. Which explains why, CZ lenses on the Hassys are more expensive and slower comparatively. You should check out the 645E webpage for 645E details. I guess with focal plane shutter, the flash sync is going to be lower than the leaf shutter camera, definitely a minus in a studio type application in my mind.

Pre-owned 503CW+CF80/2.8+A12 goes for about 3K to 3.5K I think, depending on condition. Yeah, forgot to point out a correction in your original message; it's a 503CW rather than 501CW. The 501 is a 501CM now. I think the older 500s (e.g. 500C, 500CM, 501C etc) are quite commonly available. I believe the 501CM would go for less than a comparable 503CW, as it does not have the coupling for the powered grip, that acts as a powered film winder.

I think you should take a trip down to TCW to see if they have any on display. I think Prime (the shop next to Cathay in Peninsula) also have some used Hasselblads on display.

Not sure what your applications are though, but the different cameras I think are used or meant to be used in different situations.

On the question of the meter, it again goes down to a question of what your photographic application. I think ppl buy spot meters for landscape, flash meters for studio. Anyway, the 645E does have a in camera meter; out of the box, the Hassy does not. You will have to add a PME45 or PME90 prism to get in camera metering. I think an handheld meter here would be more useful. Check out the various type from Minolta, Gossen or Sekonic.

Like I said in the previous post, the A16 mag can take 6x4.5 sized images.

chgoh @ 8:06am on 13 Feb 2004

Originally Posted by Diablo Thanks guys Roughly how much am I lookin at for these 2 setups? For the hassy, is it possible to take 6*4.5 by changing the magazine back or something? Which lightmeters would be suitable for general use, be it for 35mm or MF SLR systems?

[Diablo]

Hi chgoh,

thanks for ur information.

My intention is to get a manual MF setup for landscape photography. Therefore I was asking for these 2 models.

So for :
1) Mamiya - A mechanical body with a builtin meter, but fixed at 6x4.5, with affordable lenses though

2) 501CM - A mechanical body w/o exposure meter, flexible with 6x4.5 or 6x6, with *ahem* pricey lenses.
(One thing though, saw that hassy's site that there's a 501CW there has a builtin TTL.)

Dun intend to spend more than 2.5k for 2nd setups of the mamiya, and not more than 3k for the hassy(I dun mind paying more for the flexibility).

So I can look out for deals at either the forum here, or shops like TCW or Prime(the shop beside CP) rite? How abt Alan photo, do they also deal with MF equipment?

thanks again

[Pro Image]

Thanks chgoh for pointing that out for me. Getting old......

Looking to shoot landscape? Well I am not too sure but a wide angle lens for a Hassy will really cost quite a lot, second hand. And 80mm standard has it's limitation. I am just calculating the 80mm Hassy is equivalent to around 48mm-50mm in SLR cameras. I would say a 6X6 film back would be enough unless you want more frames out from it.

Unless you realy specialized only in Landscapes Photography, a 6X4.5 film back is better off for landscape format but I think it's an additional price to it. It is however more flexible as you can shoot 2 formats but it comes with a price. Hehe....

[kex]

the Mamiya 645E kit cost $1100 brand new from cathay when i check last 2 mths..
y not get the RB67 or RZ67 system instead ?Used RB67 fits into ur budget very well and give u bigger negatives than 645,but u only get 10 shots per roll of 120.
a polaris lightmeter that meter flash as well cost ard $260.
IMO,get the hassy if u have alot of spare cash lying ard..if not the mamiya will serve u juz as well.

[chgoh]

Hmm... Don't think I have a specific recommendation here. It depends on what you like and if it fits the application. Kind of like some ppl like Canon while some others like Nikon kind of a situation.

Kex may a good suggestion too on the RZ or RB. Both of them are a bitch to carry (large and heavy) but the rotating back system may work out to your advantage. Not sure if the 645E is oriented in portrait or landscape. You probably would have to check it out.

The other thing about getting pre-owned item is that you would want something that is widely available. RZ/RB and the Hassies are quite readily available. I have not seen any 645E recently in the usual second hand shops. So this might also be a factor.

Well, maybe a Russian or Chinese TLR can work for you as you start out in exploring MF. Much cheaper too and if you want to go a different direction in the future, you would not be hard pressed on the financial side with the TLRs. Not familiar with them, but I think many on CS or Offstone could probably help.

chgoh @ 11:25pm on 13 Feb 2004

[Barret]

the mamiya does not come with a built in metering system
you need to buy the AE prism

at least for the 645 pro Tl ones

[mulberrybay]

Originally Posted by Diablo Hi chgoh, thanks for ur information. My intention is to get a manual MF setup for landscape photography. Therefore I was asking for these 2 models. So for : 1) Mamiya - A mechanical body with a builtin meter, but fixed at 6x4.5, with affordable lenses though 2) 501CM - A mechanical body w/o exposure meter, flexible with 6x4.5 or 6x6, with *ahem* pricey lenses. (One thing though, saw that hassy's site that there's a 501CW there has a builtin TTL.) Dun intend to spend more than 2.5k for 2nd setups of the mamiya, and not more than 3k for the hassy(I dun mind paying more for the flexibility). So I can look out for deals at either the forum here, or shops like TCW or Prime(the shop beside CP) rite? How abt Alan photo, do they also deal with MF equipment? thanks again

If its landscape your are shooting, chances are it wont be in SG, and chances are you will be travelling out of SG. Getting a 645 would be limiting. Kinda kills the thrill of medium format. Getting a Hassy is big and bulky, and expensive. Unless you do not mind being the center of attention when shooting and a be a potential robber magnet at the same time, I'd recommed a Mamiya 7II. Shoots 6x7, 6x6, 6x45. 6x7's good for landscape, 6x6 for portrait shots, 6x45 for family snapshots. Only trouble is, everytime you decide to shoot a particular format, you will have to stick with it for the whole roll.

-MB

[Nick80]

The Mamiya 645E does come with TTL AE metering, but no TTL flash. Flash sync is at 1/60. Hope this helps. I did see a used one at Alex Photo recently, but no idea how much he is selling. In the Buy/sell in CS, someone have placed an ad to sell at about $900 recently. You may want to do a search.

[marios_pittas]

Originally Posted by Diablo 1) Mamiya 645E + std lens + magazine (According to Mamiya site, it comes with a builtin TTL AE meter right?) 2) Hassy 501CW + std lens + magazine (Im not sure what's the basic hassy 500 series that comes with a builtin TTL meter) Another qn is, suppose we take our metering off a 35mm SLR, can we apply the same setting to a MF setup?

645E Mamiya wise:
You may find the 645 Pro / Pro TL (or even Super if you are on a tight budget) better machines that the 645E - the grip, finders and interchangeable film backs (a polaroid back is very useful even for landscapes).

6x7 RZ:
As others have said heavy but nice (the rotating filmback is sweet and usefull - make no mistake) So it becomes a case of how much do you need and how much can you carry? Will you be doing a lot of walking to get to the destinations? Can your shoulders and knees take it? Any climbing involved?

501CW Hassy wise:
What I was told and have found out from first hand experience is that you can't shoot square and crop for printing! When you compose, you compose for square so when you decide to print you want the "composition" that you had in your mind when you took the photo to be printed (and that is square not rectangular). Croping the composition might not be possible. Note that you have been warned! Yet square shots are nice and cool, so make knowledgable decisions!

I enjoy the square format, but if you intend to shoot rectangular then leave the Hassy alone or use its 645 film backs.. LOL

With regards to the weight: I don't think the hassy weights a ton. The RZ does weight a lot but you can always choose to carry less (I would choose anytime to be with the 50mm and 140mm Macro from that system). The Mamyia 645 lenses are VERY, VERY light and compact (try to find the 35mm, 80mm and 105~210mm). The Hassy ones a bit heavier (this one I am still learning).

Finally, one thing I have learn, is to try to see people's photos and ask people who have used the system extensively for knowledgable opinions as sometimes peole on the net may have very little experience in the specific use or may have shot very little with the system that you are interested in and they just "appear" to be knowledgable (this is a general comment and does not apply to any of the specific respondents).

Similarly with shop sellers.. not every sales person actually shot with the camera/lens that they are pushing to you..

Hope that helps

Marios

[Keltzar]

I say go the whole-hog and buy the Mamiya 645AF. Spend the extra. At least this camera will be supported in the years to come, esp. with the upcoming ZD-1 digital back.

It's not THAT expensive... I think about S$3500-4000 for a kit with standard lens, new from Cathay. That's not much more than an EOS 20D with one lens.

[nickmak]

Originally Posted by Diablo 1) Mamiya 645E + std lens + magazine (According to Mamiya site, it comes with a builtin TTL AE meter right?) 2) Hassy 501CW + std lens + magazine (Im not sure what's the basic hassy 500 series that comes with a builtin TTL meter) Another qn is, suppose we take our metering off a 35mm SLR, can we apply the same setting to a MF setup?

Since you did not state a preference on the size of the picture you'd like to use, I would also recommend looking at 6x7 cameras or larger too, to see what you'll like.

[marios_pittas]

Originally Posted by Keltzar I say go the whole-hog and buy the Mamiya 645AF. Spend the extra. At least this camera will be supported in the years to come, esp. with the upcoming ZD-1 digital back. It's not THAT expensive... I think about S$3500-4000 for a kit with standard lens, new from Cathay. That's not much more than an EOS 20D with one lens.

LOL.. but his message was titled: "What is the cheapest setup for these 2 MF setups".. sol obviously financial constraints are important to the question..

Mamiya, just like any other commercial entity in every industry, will support what makes commercial sense. Like other manufacturers, they have also in the past discontinued models/series according to the prevailing "photo-trends", e.g. the Press system (6x9 with the legendary 50mm, 75mm, and 150mm), their 35mm system (Mamiya ZE) etc.

I feel, one drawback of the Mamiya 645 AF series is that the "sports" finder is not removable from the camera body, which in my opinion makes it awkward to carry and unable to accept a Waist Level Finder, which I find extremely useful when shooting landscapes and for critical focusing (slow nonetheless).. Why oh why ?

[sabahan]

Originally Posted by Diablo Thanks guys Roughly how much am I lookin at for these 2 setups? For the hassy, is it possible to take 6*4.5 by changing the magazine back or something? Which lightmeters would be suitable for general use, be it for 35mm or MF SLR systems?

The hassel Prism PME 45 or PME 90 have a build in incedent light meter,cost of this two is approx 1.9K and 1K repectively,this price is about 4 years ago.

[marios_pittas]

Originally Posted by sabahan The hassel Prism PME 45 or PME 90 have a build in incedent light meter,cost of this two is approx 1.9K and 1K repectively,this price is about 4 years ago.

Probably better application would be to either stick to the WLF or buy a non-metered prism and use an external meter (I use my Sekonic with even metered prisms).

On e-bay the hassy non-metered ones (NC 1/2) can be had for around USD$70 - which should be more than enough for landscape photography. Another alternative would of course be a Kiev finder which can be bought for around the same, but new. In my opinion, your money is better spend on lenses and film backs (in case you decide to have more than one type of film ready loaded).

Like others have said, you will probably not find the 80mm (MF normal lens) appropriate for landscapes. A 50mm and/or 150mm/210mm would probably be more useful. So you should be looking how much would the total cost be.

Another MF brand that you did not mention is of course Pentax. Their 645 also suffers from lack of back interechangability but the costs are significantly lower and would most certainly fit your budget.

Marios