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Thread: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

  1. #21

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by IsenGrim View Post
    Hi all,

    I always have this problem of my flash illuminating the table (of white table cloth) instead of the group seated behind the table. How can I solve that? (the flash is recognising the table as the subject and correctly illuminating it instead of the group behind)

    As of now, the only solution i use is the up the power of the flash output when I take group shots behind the table. (then sometimes table overexposed or reflect alot of light due to white color and/or metallic surface) Any pros here have solution?

    will post example pictuer later when i get home.
    omg, u cannot shoot table photos and u DARE shoot at weddings? Sigh...that's the problem with the wedding scene nowadays, young chaps who dun even have the basic before they take on assignments. Buy a camera and can shoot le? pls learn your stuff first okay?
    I've been to weddings as a guest whereby the couple give me my table shots and i was totally taken back. Some dumbass photoer used a 10-20mm at 15mm to shoot us...we were all distorted like jelly. I dun even try to shoot people at 28mm frame to frame b/c confirm there will be distortion.

    There was another wedding dinner where i can distinctly hear a VERY slow shutter. Out of courtesy, i didn't point out that the picture will be completely blur unless he is super zai. ( but i doubt so since he is shooting with one hand and numbering his fingers with another). I never got the pictures for that wedding.

    And i think that is really the problem nowadays. We have folks posting all sorts of wonderful picture in the wedding section and impressionable young chaps wanting to emulate them and taking up assignment without even mastering the basics..Ya, it's nice to be arty farty, avant garde or watever photojournalistic style, but pls for godness sake, learn how to shoot simple, factual photos first.

    fyi, i shoot at weddings. I started off as a freelancer too, but i never go the arty-farty or journalistic route. I charge $500 per wedding and i sell my photo style as clear, simple and factual. You want arty farty, journalistic or watever, go look for someone else...i seriously cannot shoot a person hand alone nicely or a half face smile or some veil flying around. Give me a table of pple, i arrange them and shoot them clear and distinct. That's what a photographer must at least be able to do. If u can't even get ur camera to expose for the group instead of THE WHITE table cloth, pls go back and re-learn ur basics.

    anyway, fyi, the flash is NOT recognizing the table as the subject. the while cloth reflects a LOT of light. So the dumb camera assume the entire scene is well -lit. Camera is dumb. Photographers are not...

    or are they???

  2. #22

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by cosycatus View Post
    omg, u cannot shoot table photos and u DARE shoot at weddings? Sigh...that's the problem with the wedding scene nowadays, young chaps who dun even have the basic before they take on assignments. Buy a camera and can shoot le? pls learn your stuff first okay?
    I've been to weddings as a guest whereby the couple give me my table shots and i was totally taken back. Some dumbass photoer used a 10-20mm at 15mm to shoot us...we were all distorted like jelly. I dun even try to shoot people at 28mm frame to frame b/c confirm there will be distortion.

    There was another wedding dinner where i can distinctly hear a VERY slow shutter. Out of courtesy, i didn't point out that the picture will be completely blur unless he is super zai. ( but i doubt so since he is shooting with one hand and numbering his fingers with another). I never got the pictures for that wedding.

    And i think that is really the problem nowadays. We have folks posting all sorts of wonderful picture in the wedding section and impressionable young chaps wanting to emulate them and taking up assignment without even mastering the basics..Ya, it's nice to be arty farty, avant garde or watever photojournalistic style, but pls for godness sake, learn how to shoot simple, factual photos first.

    fyi, i shoot at weddings. I started off as a freelancer too, but i never go the arty-farty or journalistic route. I charge $500 per wedding and i sell my photo style as clear, simple and factual. You want arty farty, journalistic or watever, go look for someone else...i seriously cannot shoot a person hand alone nicely or a half face smile or some veil flying around. Give me a table of pple, i arrange them and shoot them clear and distinct. That's what a photographer must at least be able to do. If u can't even get ur camera to expose for the group instead of THE WHITE table cloth, pls go back and re-learn ur basics.

    anyway, fyi, the flash is NOT recognizing the table as the subject. the while cloth reflects a LOT of light. So the dumb camera assume the entire scene is well -lit. Camera is dumb. Photographers are not...

    or are they???
    all of us got to start somewhere? if i dont challenge myself and take up assignments and do my very best of it, what else can i do? nothing comes near as actual experience.

    and for your info. i am getting less than you do. i serve low end customers who cant fork the amount you charge. and they get what they paid for: me. and im not trying to do anything fancy. Im just trying to do things right like you.

    thanks for discouraging the younger generation to learn and explore.

  3. #23
    Member Cartman2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings



    Shot a wedding a while back. As you can see, the table cloth isn't white.. but this was basically what I did.

    Shot with a 50D, 17-55mm f2.8, 580EX w/ Whaletail diffuser

    Shutter : 1/40
    Aperture : f4
    ISO : 800
    FEC : +1/3 I think

    Flash exposure locked the skin of the person with the most neutral skin tone before shooting.

    Hope it helps you someway

  4. #24

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman2000 View Post


    Shot a wedding a while back. As you can see, the table cloth isn't white.. but this was basically what I did.

    Shot with a 50D, 17-55mm f2.8, 580EX w/ Whaletail diffuser

    Shutter : 1/40
    Aperture : f4
    ISO : 800
    FEC : +1/3 I think

    Flash exposure locked the skin of the person with the most neutral skin tone before shooting.

    Hope it helps you someway
    thanks man. i guess using FEL and a lower shooting angle would get better results

  5. #25

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    TS, try lower your perspective and take less of table. And using of a reasonably sized bounce card helps a lot.

    Meanwhile for this photo, you can try adjusting fill light in camera raw.
    You'll only live once. Just once.
    Portfolio | Tangshooters

  6. #26

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman2000 View Post


    Shot a wedding a while back. As you can see, the table cloth isn't white.. but this was basically what I did.

    Shot with a 50D, 17-55mm f2.8, 580EX w/ Whaletail diffuser

    Shutter : 1/40
    Aperture : f4
    ISO : 800
    FEC : +1/3 I think

    Flash exposure locked the skin of the person with the most neutral skin tone before shooting.

    Hope it helps you someway
    Hmm.. I think the WB is off bro..
    You'll only live once. Just once.
    Portfolio | Tangshooters

  7. #27

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by IsenGrim View Post
    hmm dont really understand "2 stops off the ambient" part but i guess you're right. i should setup a manual flash calculation b4 the event for table shots.

    on the note of lightmeters, unfortunately, i didn't have the chance to encounter one, nor use one, nor even how to use one. hahha I know you're supposed to point its "spot"?, for the lack of a better term, at the subject and if will show you an EV reading, like 14ev? den set the camera settings (ss aperture and iso) to give a 14ev total. (and i dont even know how to convert from ev to aperture+ss+iso)
    From my experience from using both Canon and Nikon flash system, the eTTL calculations is not as accurate as the iTTL ones.

    Most of the lighting conditions in banquet dinner are not that consistent. A good flash technique is necessary for consistent table shots. A good bound card is a start.

    As for WB, generally AWB is ok. But if it fails, try a fixed temperature value and adjust in camera raw during postprocess.

    Of course there are a lot of ways to do all these, you just have to find your own workflow.
    You'll only live once. Just once.
    Portfolio | Tangshooters

  8. #28

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by IsenGrim View Post
    all of us got to start somewhere? if i dont challenge myself and take up assignments and do my very best of it, what else can i do? nothing comes near as actual experience.

    and for your info. i am getting less than you do. i serve low end customers who cant fork the amount you charge. and they get what they paid for: me. and im not trying to do anything fancy. Im just trying to do things right like you.

    thanks for discouraging the younger generation to learn and explore.
    Learning and exploring is one thing, taking money as a professional when you don't have the basic skills is another matter.

  9. #29
    Member Cartman2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by nakashimamika View Post
    Hmm.. I think the WB is off bro..
    Might be some calibration issues? I set my screen to 6500K at point of calibration. Hm..does it look too cold or warm?
    Last edited by Cartman2000; 2nd December 2009 at 12:46 PM.

  10. #30
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman2000 View Post
    Might be some calibration issues? I set my screen to 6500K at point of calibration. Hm..does it look too cold or warm?
    too much magenta for my taste.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  11. #31
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by cosycatus View Post
    omg, u cannot shoot table photos and u DARE shoot at weddings? Sigh...that's the problem with the wedding scene nowadays, young chaps who dun even have the basic before they take on assignments. Buy a camera and can shoot le? pls learn your stuff first okay?
    I've been to weddings as a guest whereby the couple give me my table shots and i was totally taken back. Some dumbass photoer used a 10-20mm at 15mm to shoot us...we were all distorted like jelly. I dun even try to shoot people at 28mm frame to frame b/c confirm there will be distortion.

    There was another wedding dinner where i can distinctly hear a VERY slow shutter. Out of courtesy, i didn't point out that the picture will be completely blur unless he is super zai. ( but i doubt so since he is shooting with one hand and numbering his fingers with another). I never got the pictures for that wedding.

    And i think that is really the problem nowadays. We have folks posting all sorts of wonderful picture in the wedding section and impressionable young chaps wanting to emulate them and taking up assignment without even mastering the basics..Ya, it's nice to be arty farty, avant garde or watever photojournalistic style, but pls for godness sake, learn how to shoot simple, factual photos first.

    fyi, i shoot at weddings. I started off as a freelancer too, but i never go the arty-farty or journalistic route. I charge $500 per wedding and i sell my photo style as clear, simple and factual. You want arty farty, journalistic or watever, go look for someone else...i seriously cannot shoot a person hand alone nicely or a half face smile or some veil flying around. Give me a table of pple, i arrange them and shoot them clear and distinct. That's what a photographer must at least be able to do. If u can't even get ur camera to expose for the group instead of THE WHITE table cloth, pls go back and re-learn ur basics.

    anyway, fyi, the flash is NOT recognizing the table as the subject. the while cloth reflects a LOT of light. So the dumb camera assume the entire scene is well -lit. Camera is dumb. Photographers are not...

    or are they???
    table shots used to be the bread and butter shots of traditional style wedding photographers, just like those tea ceremony shots and family group photos..

    nowadays, most wedding couples want PJ style, photographers able to shoot decent table shots and also those used to be must have shots, are not really matter now.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  12. #32
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    TS: listen to bengchiat's advice, he is a season wedding shooter.

    anyway, base on your sample photo, you need to pack the guests closer, showing too much table will waste your flash power and might fool your camera meter too.

    ask one or two guests get up and stand at back row, just give them whatever excuse to make them move behind. the photos definably look better that way.
    additional note: bengchiat is a full time professional photographer, also a very experience wedding shooter.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  13. #33
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman2000 View Post
    Might be some calibration issues? I set my screen to 6500K at point of calibration. Hm..does it look too cold or warm?
    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    too much magenta for my taste.
    Yes I agree... looks like quite strong magenta. A bit unnatural.
    The flash is a bit too powerful too...
    Exploring! :)

  14. #34

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    To TS,

    To each his own opinion man. Dun get discouraged just because some words seem harsh to you. Diff ppl have diff ways of expressing themselves. Dun give up. In photography all you have to do is just keep shooting and shooting until you get it right. Me myself I do event shoots and some weddings too. I also started off pretty badly and even though now my shots aren't prefect, I do see some improvements from previous shoots.

    Just remember, your purpose here is to learn and not to get discouraged. You will encounter all sorts of ppl in here but remember this line "Photography is like life, we can't develop without the negative" JIA YOU YEAH!!!!

  15. #35

    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by JT-Fotographia View Post
    To TS,

    To each his own opinion man. Dun get discouraged just because some words seem harsh to you. Diff ppl have diff ways of expressing themselves. Dun give up. In photography all you have to do is just keep shooting and shooting until you get it right. Me myself I do event shoots and some weddings too. I also started off pretty badly and even though now my shots aren't prefect, I do see some improvements from previous shoots.

    Just remember, your purpose here is to learn and not to get discouraged. You will encounter all sorts of ppl in here but remember this line "Photography is like life, we can't develop without the negative" JIA YOU YEAH!!!!
    Aww thanks man. not giving up is my new motto for my 3 new passions. of which are like in 3 worlds hahhaah namely (night/astro) photography, software programming and cheerleading.

    I will definitely use Bengchiat's advice! will post some results after friday's dnd!

  16. #36
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: About group shots at dinner tables on weddings

    To be fair to your clients, though you charge less than your competitors in this fierce wedding photography business, you still can't be delivering sub-standard work.
    The example you posted in page 1 doesn't cut the mustard, I'm afraid... If I was your client and you produced these images, I'd be after you with a shotgun.
    If you don't have the confidence yet, it's best to practise on friends, at family dinners, and perhaps being second photog to a seasoned shooter.

    All the best in your pursuit of success! I hope you make it soon!
    Exploring! :)

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