May the PEACE with everybody here ...
well... the thread has been interesting to see what style of photography people like. teL has already stated that he prefers a more traditional approach, and from the responses to his post, some others prefer a non-traditional or unconventional approach. to each his (or her) own, take a few steps back.... and enjoy your own unique style of photography!
you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye
I am sorry if people feel that way. Maybe it's inadequacy, maybe it's jealousy, or maybe it's sour grapes when they see the ARPS attached on. But I earned the right to have that put after my name (through my own abilities) and I don't see why I should be ashamed to do so or why I shouldn't do so *shrug* Just that whatever I post is judged even before it is read sometimes...Originally Posted by sequitur
I always speak my mind when I need to and I try to be diplomatic when I do (though it seems that diplomacy is not the answer to many of the brick-bats here -- one-liners, snide remarks and sarcasm seem to be the order of the day).
And thanks sequitur, I share your hope that this ends in peace (if there's something I see eye to eye with you over, this has to be it!)
First of all, tel, let's get this straight. i don't believe there's any "mud-slinging and degradatory remarks" against you, at least not from me. "Rubbish, cliched, contrived" etc etc refers to the style of photography, not to your own personal integrity as a human being. Neither your character nor your personal rights have been assailed.Originally Posted by teL
Why are u so sensitive? Insecure perhaps?
Now wat is a fact is u have accused certain moderators of
1) having personal agendas
3) thinking that they are "at the peak of their craft" (wat the hell is that anyway?)
Now THAT IS below the belt. Who's the one getting personal here?
tel, i didn't blow a lot of hot air about my personal work. In fact, i never bring up my personal work. I'm commenting on Salon Photography, and wat i stated are my facts and opinions on this particular branch of photography. I've said that those are my opinions, and whether you agree with them or not, u've no right to accuse me of promoting my own work. (which i didn't)As for the challenge, I am now curious to see how many would actually take it up: to let their work/art speak for themselves rather than "blow a lot of hot air" (Azure: I don't think that is restricted to only photographers with titles and qualifications... I see a lot of such similar behaviour from those photographers who don't have them here too ).
On the other hand, you're the guy around here toting a myraid of 4 letter acronym titles, and claiming u've achieved a certain standard according to some arbitary body or panel of judges. Maybe you have. But i have never attacked ur qualifications as such.
Since u're so competitive, and since i got no titles and hence, nothing to lose at all , i'll take up your challenge. No i have no time to apply for watever degree or title that u have sought so hard after. You have accused me of blowing hot air about my own work when in reality, i have not attacked your personal photography nor promote my own.
Let us use pictures to speak for ourselves. We set a time, post a selection of pictures, a portfolio, watever. Let the readers here be the judge. u're the one with the ARPS right? Let's see some pictures from you too. I'll post mine. We can do it in a new thread. Or on a new webpage. Watever. If u're as good as you claim and since u're the ARPS here, you shouldn't have a problem at all showing your wonderful pictures and wowing the entire readership of Clubsnap. You also claim no one here dares to take up ur "challenge". Well i'll bite I'll play. I'll show my pics, and you show urs.
What say you?
wah... a duel!!!
must watch..... stay tuned......
you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye
I have no time to play such games with you guys here. Why should I? And I don't need you guys to judge my work in return. What do I get out of it? a Associateship of Clubsnap (ACS) or Fellowship of Clubsnap (FCS)??? No, thank you. I know what my standards are as recognised by the higher authorities who have been into photography far longer than you and I have ever been around. Insecure? Speak for yourself... My work is there on the web for whoever who wants to judge it, including the panel that was submitted for my ARPS, not only on my own homepage, but also the RPS's Digital Imaging website: http://www.digit.org.ukOriginally Posted by Red Dawn
No, you have not attacked my photography directly but note the way you (and ckiang for that matter) conduct yourself as moderators in the other thread that I posted. Unbiased? No. Prejudiced? Maybe. Narrow-minded? Maybe. If you have no comments and that is not your particular genre of photography, don't comment. I think that as a moderator, you're obliged morally to provide at least a balanced view of things as an example to your community. That doesn't mean that you cannot express your personal opinion, but make it clear that it is your own opinion first before you go about making it.
"You also claim no one here dares to take up ur "challenge". Well i'll bite I'll play. "
You'll take up my challenge? Fine... go ahead. My challenge has been laid out clear right from the start: Apply and qualify for the ARPS. If you can get it, I'd be happy for you and for the general photographic community in Singapore. That is my challenge to you if you really seriously want to take it up. Lack of time??? That's not an excuse. Too costly? The cost of entry just came down recently: you can submit your work electronically on CD-ROM rather than do what I did -- enlarge, print and mount them, and sending the whole package of 15 pictures by courier over to the UK. Unless you already know what the likely outcome is going to be and perhaps feel insecure about that outcome Go ahead, bite... and play. I await your results.
On the other hand, claiming to take up my challenge and yet not do it but instead, throw a counter-challenge... I find that tactic amusing
As another forummer from elsewhere said to me:
"remember, only insecured people are turn off by your title under your name.
For the normal lot, it's ur right to include them.
not worth ur time, EL, not worth."
Last edited by teL; 20th February 2004 at 04:46 AM.
Ah, so it boils down to what I suspected; Mr. Fancy Letters needs to show off and justify his obsession with titles and qualifications to the rest of us. Oh, and to garner support for salon photography as well. Give me a break.
Give me a break as well. I don't need to justify anything or to be obssessed about anything, and not to you in particular. To garner support for salon photography? I don't gain anything from doing so too... I merely asked for an opinion about it, only to be surprised by the disregard, misunderstanding, and the narrow-mindedness about it, for better or worse.Originally Posted by YSLee
Thank you for the name-calling and taunting, for what it's worth to you.
Last edited by teL; 20th February 2004 at 06:12 AM.
Thanks for your suggestion and honesty, this is certainly educational and an eye opener.Originally Posted by teL
Afterall it is just a reflection of yourself in public, and very sadly RPS has been dragged into it, in rather a negative fashion.
Last edited by chngpe01; 20th February 2004 at 06:50 AM.
Humility is hard to swallow for some..
Nothing against salon photography, to each his own.
teL, I think your so-called "challenge" was uncalled for. To qualify for ARPS or any of the other so-called qualification amounts to nought. Everyone has their own unique style which may or may not appeal to others, so be it. Don't go on the defensive and start saying that it's "sour grapes" and jealousy. I dare say that most of the people here don't get jealous because of a namesake that they don't have. (They're more likely to get jealous of another photographer's stunning photo collection! )
I believe that a counter challenge to your "challenge" of qualifying for ARPS (like what yourself have qualified) is just. Let the majority decide.
I refer to your contribution with reference to your comment "flaunting of titles both photographic and academic, and not forgeting ancestral lines". Not mine.Originally Posted by teL
Have I ever contributed anything to clubSNAP? Think I can at least lay claim that I did generate a thread with 69 responses (and still growing...)
Forget it... it's not worth my time.
As you've said: "Everyone has their own unique style which may or may not appeal to others, so be it." I don't see a need to answer Red Dawn's counter-challenge even though I've got nothing to lose (except time, which this thread has already consumed enough of).Originally Posted by CaeSiuM
To each his own... and goodbye CS. It's been educational.
teL - You are getting personal.
I have merely indicated that I do not care for nor feel intimidated by fancy titles of any form. Your post (the parts directed to me) remind me of the arrogance of some folks I've come across, in life and in online forums. Perhaps you should take a step back and consider if you ARE justifying my impression that those titles lend but arrogance.
If however, you feel that you want to raise the standards here in Clubsnap, or in the other photography communities in Singapore, by all means. Start a series of sharing sessions, talks, workshops. There is nothing to stop you. Run a workshop or a series to teach show and guide interested CSers on how to get that coveted ARPS, PSS, FRPS. But turning your poll into a covert vendetta of some sort... you make yourself the laughing stork.
As for the challenge - Haha, I have always seen myself as an amateur and a for-fun shooter. Does that mean I should apply for Associate Fun-Shooters' Photographic Society (AFSPS)?
sigh....Originally Posted by teL
Such poor reflection of your self again.... such public display. Its a pity.
I too agree that it is not worth your time, you are wasting your time here, perhaps you should spend it more meaningfully like self reflection, soul searching etc...
This does remind me of a particular joker who showed up in CS after leaving Offstone.... and stirred up a silly storm here. Personally, such behaviour really makes me lose all respect for the person. Something for you to chew on.Originally Posted by teL
OT: Let's start a AGPS you can be the president, We'll allocate membership through a photo-story of cats. Cost of entry, hmmm maybe kopi + lunch.Originally Posted by Azure
teL: Chill out bub, everywhere will have some disagreers and some that totally go the opposite way we normally want to go, else how to improve and add some life to what you want to do? Just like in a meeting your suggestions/topics may not be well recieved, and if there's nobody to challenge you, what we see if perfect, but it might end up on the rocks. These people exists to make us think further and evaluate our knowledge/beliefs.
In short, I still have no damn-idea what Salon photography is, all I know is that if you enjoy photography, shoot more, talk later. Just take replies with a pinch of salt. Enjoy the rebuke and sharing that all of the rest here has made.
I believe everybody replied with the feeling of wanting to argue and at the end of the day feel convinced of what they believe in and such, and if the other party is right they'd accept it maybe. But similarly in meetings, there will never be a conclusion!
Just keep shooting
Very funny.Originally Posted by espn
espn -> <- Azure
Oh dear me, whatever happened to allowing a man to speak the truth?Originally Posted by teL
truth is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow...
Last edited by zaren; 20th February 2004 at 08:59 AM.
you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye
Just a point of clarification since Eng Loy has brought this up in several posts - Moderators are NOT restricted in providing their own personal thoughts, opinions and experiences while responding to members threads.
The KEY duty of a Moderator is to police/administrate the forum to which they are assigned; and outside of the assigned forum, they are free to participate in any discussion as they see fit. Its unfortunate that the software does not allow us to only tag a Moderator within the assigned forum, and as an ordinary member outside the assigned forum - this may provide some leeway for them to express their personal views more freely.
Of course, that does not give a Moderator carte blanche to start bashing or pushing their weight around, but to respond in a civil and level-headed manner as befits the situation.
With regards to the arguments put forth in this threads, we will only allow this thread to continue if all members refrain from making personal attacks and contribute in a constructive manner.
And as some members have already pointed out, if any member feels that there is a perceived lack of a certain skill or genre which they personally feel needs more work, we (and the members) would certainly welcome discussion on how to improve eg. if more education needs to be made on Salon-style photography, then kick-start some discussions, gatherings and work on it; rather than just talk about it online.