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Thread: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

  1. #21
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by coolsigg View Post
    To be fair, I don't think Panny is the only one selling original batts at 3X the price of 3rd party. For Nikon ENEL3e, 3rd party cost around $20+ while the original can range from $60+ to $80, depending on where one buys it. I believe the disparities for Canon DSLRs are even bigger.

    Its a free market and free world so we should just let consumers vote with their wallet.
    Yeah, Canon's latest chipped battery for 5DII and 7D costs around $120 while 3rd party ones is around $30 (4x)...
    Canon 5D Mark II | 24-105L | 35L | 85L II | 135L | Samyang 14mm 2.8

  2. #22

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    apple don't even let you change the batteries
    Yup. And if your item is damaged, e.g. LCD damaged thru your own fault, they won't repair it. They will ask you to buy a new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by La Fontaine View Post
    If they sell their battery at a reasonable price, it is still OK, for the sake of protecting the customer's safety. But at 3x the price,

    As for Epson printers, and for that matter, other printers, those inkjet printer, the cost of the original cartridge - well all know That is why these days, hardly anyone would print their pic with those printers.

    Just OK a bit, Epson ink cartridges dries up fast and each time do a cleaning, so much ink was consumed. I stop using it - going to throw the darn thing away liao. I have switched to Canon - seems to be somewhat better.
    I don't like Epson. Their print head always get clogged, and waste like 1/3rd of the ink tank.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by coolsigg View Post
    To be fair, I don't think Panny is the only one selling original batts at 3X the price of 3rd party. For Nikon ENEL3e, 3rd party cost around $20+ while the original can range from $60+ to $80, depending on where one buys it. I believe the disparities for Canon DSLRs are even bigger.

    Its a free market and free world so we should just let consumers vote with their wallet.
    I believe 6x for 1st party batteries is reasonable. What I find unreasonable is the LX3 battery being more expensive than a Nikon's EN-EL3e. How can that puny thing cost more than my DSLR battery? I can't even start to imagine how much the GF1 spare batteries are.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    It should be wise to get original batteries as there will be a sense of assurance
    that it will not fail or explode.Third party batteries may not be up to the original
    manufacturing standard...slip slop kinda of manufacturing by 3rd parties.Agree
    it is cheaper but performance wise doubtful.

    Since one has already invested on the camera why not pay little
    more to have a peace of mind. I certainly would.
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  5. #25
    Member agws1970's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hi all,

    This is a chat room and I would like to chat about something that annoys me regarding a camera manufacturer.

    The subject is Panasonic and their FORCING camera users to use their battery on their latest cameras.

    I did not post this in the Panasonic forum as it is not about the cameras (I like them), it is about principles.

    I have been selling digital cameras for a little over 10 years and have NEVER had a distructive or any other problem with 3rd party batteries.

    Now Panasonic have decided to make their cameras to ONLY use their batteries and not give you the choice of 3rd party ones.

    I sold a Panasonic FS7 to a customer 3 weeks ago and he decided to buy a back up battery for it (3rd party one)... the camera rejected using it.

    I found that (from Panasonic) that it will only work with their "chipped" ones.

    Their batteries for that camera are a 1/3rd the price of the camera !!!

    This I have found applies not to just that camera, but all of their new models (includes the TZ7 that I enjoy selling to people).

    I phoned the Panasonic Rep about it and the reply was..."well that's the way it is"

    This is not good practice.

    I will be steering customers away toward other brands based on this, even though I like their cameras quality.

    What do you think

    P.S. I own a few cameras and have Inca batteries for them and have had no problem

    Cheers
    I am very surprised you even brought this matter up.
    So it is not ethical for them to design a camera that will only use their own battery but it will be ethical for the consumers to use a third party battery that screws up the camera then pop in the original battery that came with the camera and go make a warranty claim?
    Come on, manufacturers are only protecting their own interests and this should be also in your interest as a salesperson.
    Unless you are bemoaning the loss of the higher margin that the third party battery gives you.

  6. #26

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Sooner or later, 3rd party manufacturing would come out that able to read the chips. It is easy, just need some time for them to invent.
    I am stuck in an expensive hobby, but yet not willing to save myself

  7. #27
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua0718 View Post
    Sooner or later, 3rd party manufacturing would come out that able to read the chips. It is easy, just need some time for them to invent.
    Only when there is enough demand and the profit gain is > the the effort put into the decoding.
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    we should also complain to the garment about apples because we cannot use windows os to run on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hi all,

    This is a chat room and I would like to chat about something that annoys me regarding a camera manufacturer.

    The subject is Panasonic and their FORCING camera users to use their battery on their latest cameras.

    I did not post this in the Panasonic forum as it is not about the cameras (I like them), it is about principles.

    I have been selling digital cameras for a little over 10 years and have NEVER had a distructive or any other problem with 3rd party batteries.

    Now Panasonic have decided to make their cameras to ONLY use their batteries and not give you the choice of 3rd party ones.

    I sold a Panasonic FS7 to a customer 3 weeks ago and he decided to buy a back up battery for it (3rd party one)... the camera rejected using it.

    I found that (from Panasonic) that it will only work with their "chipped" ones.

    Their batteries for that camera are a 1/3rd the price of the camera !!!

    This I have found applies not to just that camera, but all of their new models (includes the TZ7 that I enjoy selling to people).

    I phoned the Panasonic Rep about it and the reply was..."well that's the way it is"

    This is not good practice.

    I will be steering customers away toward other brands based on this, even though I like their cameras quality.

    What do you think

    P.S. I own a few cameras and have Inca batteries for them and have had no problem

    Cheers

  9. #29

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpix0r View Post
    I believe 6x for 1st party batteries is reasonable. What I find unreasonable is the LX3 battery being more expensive than a Nikon's EN-EL3e. How can that puny thing cost more than my DSLR battery? I can't even start to imagine how much the GF1 spare batteries are.
    haha...but LX3 batt is cheaper than Canon 7D batt (OP selling for $125)? Maybe Nikon is underpricing their batts. Better dont let the Nikon folks read this! haha!

  10. #30
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by agws1970 View Post
    I am very surprised you even brought this matter up.
    So it is not ethical for them to design a camera that will only use their own battery but it will be ethical for the consumers to use a third party battery that screws up the camera then pop in the original battery that came with the camera and go make a warranty claim?
    Come on, manufacturers are only protecting their own interests and this should be also in your interest as a salesperson.
    Unless you are bemoaning the loss of the higher margin that the third party battery gives you.
    Yes I bought this matter up because I think control of choice for the consumer is wrong !

    I have sold cameras sold batteries for them for quite some time.

    I have never ... NEVER ... had any one with a fault of their camera due to 3rd party batteries.

    I do NOT bemoan the difference of a few dollars in profit (I am not that tight a person) ... But I do bemoan having to tell someone that their backup battery can cost up to 1/3rd the price of their $299 camera

    I make money if I sell them an original battery or a if I sell them a 3rd party one

    I only would like that they are given the option of choice !!!

    Can you tell me that original batteries (those supplied with a machine) have never failed and caused damage

    Didn't Sony have a problem some time back with a laptop

    I have used Inca (3rd party) batteries for my DSLR's for years and have never had a problem.

    Oh yes, I also remember Nikon doing a re-call of THEIR batteries for some issued with the D70 some years ago !

    The way I see it, as a person that sells cameras for a living (and enjoys providing one to suit the customers needs), I will be offering an alternative brand first and there are many good ones to show and let my customers try out before getting to Panasonic.

    Cheers

    P.S. Which ever way you choose to look at this (believe that I am for the customer having a good camera package) or (not) is up to you.... I just don't like my customers to be RIPPED OFF by a manufacturer.
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  11. #31
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by coolsigg View Post
    haha...but LX3 batt is cheaper than Canon 7D batt (OP selling for $125)? Maybe Nikon is underpricing their batts. Better dont let the Nikon folks read this! haha!
    Their EN-EL3e works on many cameras including their D300s, D90 and D700. I guess they are able to keep the price reasonable because of the cameras.

  12. #32

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by lioneldude View Post
    Yup. And if your item is damaged, e.g. LCD damaged thru your own fault, they won't repair it. They will ask you to buy a new one.



    I don't like Epson. Their print head always get clogged, and waste like 1/3rd of the ink tank.
    I was wondering bout Epson as well... all the ink depleted, but needing just the black, my brother bought blank ink but printer refuses to print insisting user to insert yellow ink as well. I mean...wth... print normal b&w text document need yellow?

    As for the panny batt issue, if the other brands are going to follow suit...it wont be good news. Since nowadays most original batts don't last either.
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    I bought third party bty (I think for a Canon digicam) from a sim lim sq shop.
    It was so horrible that I threw it away after using for a while. Not that cheap either.
    Use original bty for digital cameras. There is significant difference in quality.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 6th November 2009 at 06:45 AM.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Many times this is a marketing strategy.
    Not unlike game consoles like xbox(pick your flavour), ps(1-2-3 etc) etc, sold at a loss (production+distribution cost) but they try to recoup from game sales.

  15. #35
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    btw i choose to use original batteries for my camera
    and i am an apple user as well

  16. #36
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    I think it's perfectly normal... In fact, sometimes i rather all manufacturers have this sort of safeguard so that i won't be tempted to use a third party battery... U should know that using 3rd party battery may void your warranty if anything happens.

  17. #37
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Yes, my personal experience with these cameras is, if your warranty is fxxed, you might as well throw away the camera. Had a Fuji compact that costs more to repair than buy new one. My Panasonic G1 kit lens had speck inside lens (dunno how the fxx it got in there also, kept in drybox and i'm very careful when changing lens) but i misplaced my warranty/receipt and they don't have the support to do it locally so have to send back to Japan. Quoted me $300-500 repair. I fxx-ed the guy up; I can get brand new kit lens for less than that. Only after I asked him for official letter reply, he spoke to his manager and waived it off this time only.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Hello all,

    Firstly may I say that if a person chooses to use original batteries for what ever reason, I see no problem with that.

    Secondly may I tell you the method of how we handle a camera that has a fault within the warranty period ?

    1) We take out the battery and memory card; put our own ones in and test the camera.

    2) If there is still a problem (obviously it wasn't the card or battery). we remove the wrist strap, the battery, the card and send it away for repair.

    That is it.

    There is no , "we won't repair this because they used a 3rd party item".

    We have always worked this way and have never had a problem with it.

    We only stock Inca 3rd party batteries and never have had a problem with them.

    I have them in 2 of my DSLR's for over 3 years.

    As for price/profit ..... an original that sells for $79 to $99 (depending on which one), we sell an Inca one for $39 to $49 respectivly ( some lower).

    We could add another $10 to $20 to the price and people would still see a saving, but we don't work that way.

    As I say," your choice of battery is your own for what ever reason", but I believe it is wrong to take away that choice.

    Cheers all and thank you for your views on this subject
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  19. #39
    Senior Member creampuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    The solution is painfully obvious... buy cameras that use AA batteries.

  20. #40

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Mobile phone is coming with a standard charger... maybe camera maker should do likewise and use a standard battery. Have a standard for all!

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