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Thread: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

  1. #1
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Default I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Hi all,

    This is a chat room and I would like to chat about something that annoys me regarding a camera manufacturer.

    The subject is Panasonic and their FORCING camera users to use their battery on their latest cameras.

    I did not post this in the Panasonic forum as it is not about the cameras (I like them), it is about principles.

    I have been selling digital cameras for a little over 10 years and have NEVER had a distructive or any other problem with 3rd party batteries.

    Now Panasonic have decided to make their cameras to ONLY use their batteries and not give you the choice of 3rd party ones.

    I sold a Panasonic FS7 to a customer 3 weeks ago and he decided to buy a back up battery for it (3rd party one)... the camera rejected using it.

    I found that (from Panasonic) that it will only work with their "chipped" ones.

    Their batteries for that camera are a 1/3rd the price of the camera !!!

    This I have found applies not to just that camera, but all of their new models (includes the TZ7 that I enjoy selling to people).

    I phoned the Panasonic Rep about it and the reply was..."well that's the way it is"

    This is not good practice.

    I will be steering customers away toward other brands based on this, even though I like their cameras quality.

    What do you think

    P.S. I own a few cameras and have Inca batteries for them and have had no problem

    Cheers
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Pablo,

    Panasonic may have a sound technical reason to do so.
    Anyway, they learned fom Epson.

    Do you own an Epson printer?
    I used to.
    Not anymore. For obvious reasons.

    Their replacement ink cartridges have chips embedded.
    Same theory as what you described.
    Except Epson did it many years before Panasonic.

    Actually I like Panasonic a lot too.
    Are you sure they got an ethics issue?
    Have you heard of the PHP Institute. Created by their founder Konosuke Matsushita.
    http://www.globaleforum.com/en/about_forum.html
    Last edited by ricohflex; 4th November 2009 at 11:28 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    think tt nowadays, even Nikon n Canon r doing the same thing ... 5D Mk II n 7D will not give battery level readings for 3rd party batts ...

  4. #4

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    wat about m$

  5. #5
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    if battery cost is a main concern...... just dont buy/sell that brand...... let the bottom line (revenues ) do the talking

    seriously let your dollars do the talking

    If this 'experiment' works .....this could extend to lenses and flash units in future........ re-chipped so that you are forced to buy the original instead of Tamron/Tokina/Sigma/Metz/Nissin etc etc
    Last edited by ed9119; 4th November 2009 at 11:42 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hi all,

    This is a chat room and I would like to chat about something that annoys me regarding a camera manufacturer.

    The subject is Panasonic and their FORCING camera users to use their battery on their latest cameras.
    .
    .
    .
    Well, Panasonic has vested interest in ensuring customers buy the original battery because they bought over Sanyo's battery division in 2008.

    The policy does not only applies to the new models, they even go as far as issuing firmware updates that disable the camera if a 3rd party battery is detected.
    Canon 5D Mark II | 24-105L | 35L | 85L II | 135L | Samyang 14mm 2.8

  7. #7

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    after a while people will find out how to chip the panasonic batteries la.

  8. #8
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm View Post
    think tt nowadays, even Nikon n Canon r doing the same thing ... 5D Mk II n 7D will not give battery level readings for 3rd party batts ...
    There is a slight different between Panasonic and other camera manufacturers.

    For Canon and Nikon, people can still choose to use 3rd party batteries but they will lose the ability to tell whether the battery is about to be depleted. While Panasonic completely disable the camera once it detected a 3rd battery is inside the camera.
    Last edited by CS TAN; 5th November 2009 at 12:14 AM.
    Canon 5D Mark II | 24-105L | 35L | 85L II | 135L | Samyang 14mm 2.8

  9. #9

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    if battery cost is a main concern...... just dont buy/sell that brand...... let the bottom line (revenues ) do the talking

    seriously let your dollars do the talking

    If this 'experiment' works .....this could extend to lenses and flash units in future........ re-chipped so that you are forced to buy the original instead of Tamron/Tokina/Sigma/Metz/Nissin etc etc
    heard from a Sony user that A850 cannot use the micro focus adjustments to calibrate 3rd party lenses...is it true?

  10. #10
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    apple don't even let you change the batteries

  11. #11
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hi all,

    This is a chat room and I would like to chat about something that annoys me regarding a camera manufacturer.

    The subject is Panasonic and their FORCING camera users to use their battery on their latest cameras.

    I did not post this in the Panasonic forum as it is not about the cameras (I like them), it is about principles.

    I have been selling digital cameras for a little over 10 years and have NEVER had a distructive or any other problem with 3rd party batteries.

    Now Panasonic have decided to make their cameras to ONLY use their batteries and not give you the choice of 3rd party ones.

    I sold a Panasonic FS7 to a customer 3 weeks ago and he decided to buy a back up battery for it (3rd party one)... the camera rejected using it.

    I found that (from Panasonic) that it will only work with their "chipped" ones.

    Their batteries for that camera are a 1/3rd the price of the camera !!!

    This I have found applies not to just that camera, but all of their new models (includes the TZ7 that I enjoy selling to people).

    I phoned the Panasonic Rep about it and the reply was..."well that's the way it is"

    This is not good practice.

    I will be steering customers away toward other brands based on this, even though I like their cameras quality.

    What do you think

    P.S. I own a few cameras and have Inca batteries for them and have had no problem

    Cheers
    Well, they are the manufacturers.......all you can do is do the ethical way: tell your customers this point about their batteries, and let them choose themselves.....give them the alternatives

    I hope with steering customers away from Pana that you didn't mean that you don't even show them their cameras at all????

    HS

  12. #12
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    i use panasonic notebook, its quite gd really. disappointed when i hear abt the camera batteries... such a pity...
    Don't brag about your accomplishments; Show us your future works.

  13. #13

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    apple don't even let you change the batteries
    They do, just that you have to send it to them to change.

  14. #14
    Senior Member afbug's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by 2evans View Post
    They do, just that you have to send it to them to change.
    So u dun change, they change it for u. lol.

    Yeah manufacturers these days are into using their own batts. Some for safety reasons like the cell phones' batts to notebook batts. I think its unavoidable. But to price their own batts at a high price is quite

  15. #15
    Member Rendell's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    So u dun change, they change it for u. lol.

    Yeah manufacturers these days are into using their own batts. Some for safety reasons like the cell phones' batts to notebook batts. I think its unavoidable. But to price their own batts at a high price is quite
    It is call price skimming ... trying to price initially since they have competitive advantage. However, once the chinese engineer is able to rig the batteries, they will slowly reduce price as they loss their card.

  16. #16

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Be transparent.

    Tell the customer the fact. Let them decide.

    I dont use Panasonic.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Hi all and thanks for the replies so far.

    No, I am not stopping from showing a Panasonic if someone want's one; I am simply showing other brands first.

    I definately do point out the costs for a backup battery !!!

    They are and always will be on display, but as I said, "I will show others first".

    I have spoken to a 3rd party battery supplier and believe they are working on cracking the chip .... but it takes time and I don't see that they should have had to .... free trade ?

    Imagine going to buy a car you like, only to be told that it will only work on THEIR petrol and it costs 3 times what other companies petrol does

    Yes, I will be letting them know my views by camera sales figures.

    I will not at any time dis-advantage the customer, but I will not be pushing the TZ7 like I used to.

    Cheers
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  18. #18
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Pablo,

    Panasonic may have a sound technical reason to do so.
    Anyway, they learned fom Epson.

    Do you own an Epson printer?
    I used to.
    Not anymore. For obvious reasons.

    Their replacement ink cartridges have chips embedded.
    Same theory as what you described.
    Except Epson did it many years before Panasonic.

    Actually I like Panasonic a lot too.
    Are you sure they got an ethics issue?
    Have you heard of the PHP Institute. Created by their founder Konosuke Matsushita.
    http://www.globaleforum.com/en/about_forum.html
    If they sell their battery at a reasonable price, it is still OK, for the sake of protecting the customer's safety. But at 3x the price,

    As for Epson printers, and for that matter, other printers, those inkjet printer, the cost of the original cartridge - well all know That is why these days, hardly anyone would print their pic with those printers.

    Just OK a bit, Epson ink cartridges dries up fast and each time do a cleaning, so much ink was consumed. I stop using it - going to throw the darn thing away liao. I have switched to Canon - seems to be somewhat better.
    Do not be afraid [of ghost and bullies] Shoot them......

  19. #19
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    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    I can't see what the problem is to be honest. Given the number of cameras that have had to be fixed under warantee world wide due to cheap Chinese battery packs with no over-current protection or incorrect internal resistance and overheating issues etc I can't fault Panasonic or any other manufacturer from devising a method to stop cheap and often crap batteries being used in their cameras.

    As for Epson printers and their chipping of the ink cartridges, that was circumvented years ago by the CIS folks, it's no longer valid and as of I think it's next year it will be illegal to sell chipped ink cartridges in the EU though I may be wrong about the date.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
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  20. #20

    Default Re: I have an issue with ethics of a manufacturer

    Quote Originally Posted by La Fontaine View Post
    If they sell their battery at a reasonable price, it is still OK, for the sake of protecting the customer's safety. But at 3x the price,
    To be fair, I don't think Panny is the only one selling original batts at 3X the price of 3rd party. For Nikon ENEL3e, 3rd party cost around $20+ while the original can range from $60+ to $80, depending on where one buys it. I believe the disparities for Canon DSLRs are even bigger.

    Its a free market and free world so we should just let consumers vote with their wallet.

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