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Thread: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

  1. #61

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Well if Mr. Zookeeper is inherently an azzhole, holding a camera doesn't make him less of an arse.
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  2. #62

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    I see alot of these photogs at zoo and bird park. I'm wondering where do they come from. They don't seem to be working for the zoo and bird park but they look organised (wearing some kind to common shirt).

    Anyway, most of them uses D200 / D300. Collateral sponsorship with their organisation?
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  3. #63

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Ok my bad. In that case, I think the photographer has every right to do what he did to you. No offense. You can ask all you want, he can don't answer all he wants. He was there to do a job and wasn't obliged to do or answer anything else. Have to give him benefit of the doubt, coz maybe he is rushing for time. Finish his work so he can go home to be with his family. Or maybe he is deep in thought about his work. He is there to do his job and not to socialize with visitors to the zoo. He answers to his client alone.

    As for the picture he took of you and your party, he asked, and you agreed. He was not obliged to show you the pic. You could decline to have your photo taken. That was your right.

    And I don't know what cam he is using now that we have established that he is not one of those zoo employees touting memorable-day-at-the-zoo shots. Sorry TS and catchlights!
    so i guess it is a custom, to not ask about a professional's camera
    i won't do it again then i promise
    Last edited by renzokuken; 1st November 2009 at 11:38 PM.

  4. #64
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Ok my bad. In that case, I think the photographer has every right to do what he did to you. No offense. You can ask all you want, he can don't answer all he wants. He was there to do a job and wasn't obliged to do or answer anything else. Have to give him benefit of the doubt, coz maybe he is rushing for time. Finish his work so he can go home to be with his family. Or maybe he is deep in thought about his work. He is there to do his job and not to socialize with visitors to the zoo. He answers to his client alone.

    As for the picture he took of you and your party, he asked, and you agreed. He was not obliged to show you the pic. You could decline to have your photo taken. That was your right.

    And I don't know what cam he is using now that we have established that he is not one of those zoo employees touting memorable-day-at-the-zoo shots. Sorry TS and catchlights!
    It will be a bit sad that photographers are being seen as unfriendly, uncaring and stuck up people without the usual courtesy of a human being.

    Everyone has a job to do and a family to feed. It is not an excuse to be rude to another person. Perhaps I have high expectation but imagine everyone give you black face simply because he does not need to report to you, only the one that pays his salary. Are we at this stage already in Singapore?
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  5. #65
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    It will be a bit sad that photographers are being seen as unfriendly, uncaring and stuck up people without the usual courtesy of a human being.

    Everyone has a job to do and a family to feed. It is not an excuse to be rude to another person. Perhaps I have high expectation but imagine everyone give you black face simply because he does not need to report to you, only the one that pays his salary. Are we at this stage already in Singapore?
    Well, how rude was that person, we may never know? He was asked a question. How he chooses to answer that question is his prerogative. He did answer though. I think a lot of things are subjective here. We won't know for sure unless we were there when it happened. So I guess we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    It is true, that we all get black face all the time in SG and that is the sad fact in SG. Around 1990 I was working part time at harborfront (called WTC back then), NUS was using the expo halls there to conduct NUS exams. I was having lunch in a very packed Macdonalds with 2 colleagues. A NUS girl slammed her big heavy file on the table we were eating on. Her friend was trying to tell her that is not the best thing to do, she said loudly, no doubt for our benefit, that "nevermind cuz they will be finishing their food and leaving soon". It still scares me to think our hopes for the future of Singapore lay in the hands of these brats.

    Yes, we have reached that stage long ago, and have gone beyond that. Along with the other "unfriendly" traits we hear so often, we have truely become "Uniquely Singapore!"
    Last edited by daredevil123; 2nd November 2009 at 12:42 AM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    See what I mean, talk and discuss here , everyone dial onto relax mood, ask and talk anything also can, no time constrain.

    Sometimes, when one is not in the shoe, will not be able to understand the feeling of the other.

    Remember some years ago, before Star of the Zoo - Ah Ming retire, there was a promo of him having breakfast kind of thing. I was with this Harrison guy who was in charge then. Shooting to be in large format, instruction...no flash no reflector, else will annoy our STAR and he will not co-operate. And he got specific time for that short short session, no coaxing, let him have his way...so how ? There is no so how..you find your own solution, since you take up this assignment.

    Whole session is so very stressful, where got time to talk, can't even afford to take eyes off the STAR. So whenver the STAR eats something, start shooting...hoping that he got a good appetite that morning.

    It's all over within less than half an hour.

    Jus like covering a soccer match... if one start talking ( the competitors sure hope that you talk thro the whole match ).

  7. #67

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by renzokuken View Post
    so i guess it is a custom, to not ask about a professional's camera
    i won't do it again then i promise
    So now if you see some bungla doing surveying along the road, you can go up and ask him.. excuse me, are you using a nikon or olympus ? See what's his reply or expression to your question.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Another point to consider is...

    for professional who earns a living, the camera, to him/her is just a piece of working tools.

    If he/she can use a $500/= camera to do a $5,000/= assignment and get his/her client to accept it and pay the bill, then I would consider he/she is smart, using a penknife to cut an oak tree.

    On the other hand, there are amateurs who willingly spent $5,000/= on a camera, but just to shoot some amateurs models or carshow girl.

    So these two people see their camera differntly. One is a tool, others a prized possess.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    4 pages worth and do we already have a conclusion?

    Seriously, does it matter?

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  10. #70
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Well, how rude was that person, we may never know? He was asked a question. How he chooses to answer that question is his prerogative. He did answer though. I think a lot of things are subjective here. We won't know for sure unless we were there when it happened. So I guess we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
    True, there are always two sides of a story and we will never know what exactly happened without the story from the other side. I am not really talking about this incident but in general if people get to accept that photographers in Singapore are a bunch of stuck up people with no general courtesy whatsoever, then it will be truly sad for us that are associated with this industry/hobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    It is true, that we all get black face all the time in SG and that is the sad fact in SG. Around 1990 I was working part time at harborfront (called WTC back then), NUS was using the expo halls there to conduct NUS exams. I was having lunch in a very packed Macdonalds with 2 colleagues. A NUS girl slammed her big heavy file on the table we were eating on. Her friend was trying to tell her that is not the best thing to do, she said loudly, no doubt for our benefit, that "nevermind cuz they will be finishing their food and leaving soon". It still scares me to think our hopes for the future of Singapore lay in the hands of these brats.

    Yes, we have reached that stage long ago, and have gone beyond that. Along with the other "unfriendly" traits we hear so often, we have truely become "Uniquely Singapore!"
    If that is really the case, our educational system and family have truly failed. We are too concerned about how to teach our students/children on how to ace the exam but forgot to teach them on how to become a real human being.
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  11. #71
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabbySHE View Post
    See what I mean, talk and discuss here , everyone dial onto relax mood, ask and talk anything also can, no time constrain.

    Sometimes, when one is not in the shoe, will not be able to understand the feeling of the other.

    Remember some years ago, before Star of the Zoo - Ah Ming retire, there was a promo of him having breakfast kind of thing. I was with this Harrison guy who was in charge then. Shooting to be in large format, instruction...no flash no reflector, else will annoy our STAR and he will not co-operate. And he got specific time for that short short session, no coaxing, let him have his way...so how ? There is no so how..you find your own solution, since you take up this assignment.

    Whole session is so very stressful, where got time to talk, can't even afford to take eyes off the STAR. So whenver the STAR eats something, start shooting...hoping that he got a good appetite that morning.

    It's all over within less than half an hour.

    Jus like covering a soccer match... if one start talking ( the competitors sure hope that you talk thro the whole match ).
    I think you are the type who don't want to talk while working but that is fine. But how hard will it be if you just return a smile and then continue your work? I think 99% of people will understand that you are busy and want to concentrate with your work. No need to give black face in this situation. As for that 1%, well, there is always that 1% in life.

    As I have said before, it might be the Eq of a person that determine whether he is good in handling people and the ones that always give black face might be lacking behind in that category.
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  12. #72
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    True, there are always two sides of a story and we will never know what exactly happened without the story from the other side. I am not really talking about this incident but in general if people get to accept that photographers in Singapore are a bunch of stuck up people with no general courtesy whatsoever, then it will be truly sad for us that are associated with this industry/hobby.

    If that is really the case, our educational system and family have truly failed. We are too concerned about how to teach our students/children on how to ace the exam but forgot to teach them on how to become a real human being.
    Sad but true. It is survival-of-the-fittest attitude in SG nowadays. Even many people in service industry have no sense of good service.

    Well, put cameras into the hands of nasty people and you get nasty photographers (or wannabes). It is too much about showing off here. The best car, the best gear etc.... See your stuff is not as good as mine...

  13. #73
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by renzokuken View Post
    nono
    not those types

    he's those who take photos for the nigth safair and let them company use it for rthemselves

    hence i said in my first post
    "he didn't even show us the photos"
    or something like that
    he's not wearing a zoo uniform.. just his own black polo shirt , with a photographer's pass hanging on his neck
    Quote Originally Posted by renzokuken View Post
    so i guess it is a custom, to not ask about a professional's camera
    i won't do it again then i promise
    if you want to find out more about cameras, it is better to go to places like DP review or here, you can find more information of what you want..

    if you intend to talk to a professionals more in depth, don't start the conversation while they are at work, I'm sure many professionals will be very happy to help you when the situation is allow.

    it is so funny to see people slamming others without knowing what is happening actually, anyway, I will get agitated if somebody ask me "what camera is good/best" or, "recommendation of cameras" when I on assignment too.
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Hi, personal experience here, was at Sentosa (Butterfly & Insect Park) over last weekend and there's this zoo staff asking tourists whether they want their pics taken with macaws and he's using a Nikon (not sure what model). He deliberately ignore me and ask my gf whether she wants her pics taken! I was then busy trying my best to shoot this elusive butterfly! Haha......
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  15. #75

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    it really depends... once there was this tai-tai who asked what kind of camera i was using.

    i didn't have my camera with me, and it was a friend who introduced for future reference. the tai-tai was a photographer herself and it seems it was more like she was trying to show off her gear or put down what kind of gear i had.

    i found it a little odd, but it was probably the only occasion i felt a little uncomfortable with someone asking me what gear i had.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    during work, i be slightly annoyed if others make comments such as my camera is better than yours, can take better photographs because of gear etc.

    I be quite offended when people come up to us and ask how much are we charging for our package. I'm working my friend, not selling and I do not value such clients when no effort is made to understand what we do and all they do is to keeping asking what I use, how much I earn/ charge etc.

    Next time I ask them what is their salary, how much is your car, watch, dress, handbag. see how they feel.

    Be polite, if you want to compliment, do so, but not by the value of the product.
    Last edited by Belle&Sebastain; 2nd November 2009 at 10:41 AM.

  17. #77
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belle&Sebastain View Post
    during work, i be slightly annoyed if others make comments such as my camera is better than yours, can take better photographs because of gear etc.

    I be quite offended when people come up to us and ask how much are we charging for our package. I'm working my friend, not selling and I do not value such clients when no effort is made to understand what we do and all they do is to keeping asking what I use, how much I earn/ charge etc.

    Next time I ask them what is their salary, how much is your car, watch, dress, handbag. see how they feel.

    Be polite, if you want to compliment, do so, but not by the value of the product.
    You can hand him a card and do the usual:

    "Call me and make an appointment. I will be happy to discuss pricing on your photography needs." ;P

  18. #78

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legoz View Post
    4 pages worth and do we already have a conclusion?

    Seriously, does it matter?

    Regards
    No body is right or wrong here, from what I see, base on the following observation...

    TS is there with friend on a casual, leisure, free and ez night, plus curiousity of the gear of the photographer is using, that's why he asked.

    At that particular moment, this guy is still slotting his way round ( don't know since when he started, could have a mixture of fatique, tireness and hungar), while TS is already well taken his dinner and was having a good time.

    Both are having a different situation.

    One is thinking of quickly finish up his work and go home, while TS can enjoy talking all night long.

    One thing TS misses out is... he didn't ask : Excuse me, can you spare two minutes with me, I'd got a few questions about photographic equipments and related.
    We often come across such request along Orchard Road pedestrain mall or over the phone didn't we ? That they wanted to do a survey.

    As answer to Mr. Tan, in service trade, showing off black face is uncall for and also against the code of practice as professional.

    My common answer to such question is....

    Actually I don't like to use this camera, you see, big, cumbersom, heavy and slow ( not to mention the cost ). then I will whisk out from my side pocket a p n s camera, and say , I'd prefer this to that. But this big guy can help me to pay my housing loan and other utilities bill, this small one cannot. Any wise guy with brain should understand what I am putting forth.
    Last edited by cabbySHE; 2nd November 2009 at 05:07 PM.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    ok, I see, my bad, if this the photographer TS is referring to...

    no offend to the "photographer", he is just a staff, NS or Zoo pass him a camera, ask him to take photos of guests on request. anyone spend here spent 3 months in CS may have more photography knowledge than him..... beside, I just saw some such photos taken by NS/Zoo staffs at my client place this morning.... think they just use a Nikon D300 as a PnS.

    so to TS, you have ask a wrong question to a wrong person, don't think he can provide you an answer more than that.
    Zoo is a low budget ( or no budget ) organisation, since day one, loosing money all the time, cause one of my NS buddy is working inside. Tha's why they need company to adopt their animals. If their staff can do the works, there will be no out sourcing, this is inline with streamlining expenses.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Will you be willing to talk about your camera?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You can hand him a card and do the usual:

    "Call me and make an appointment. I will be happy to discuss pricing on your photography needs." ;P
    100% of the time, clients that ask prices are price sensitive, not quality sensitive. I never had any signup(s) when they ask start the conversation like these, not when I was charging $1500 nor now when the rates are higher.

    Many people romance the thought of hiring us when they see as work but many do not understand what we really do.

    Most of these clients are impulse buyers. I do fear them to a great degree as they many not like what we produce for them at the end. I like to understand my clients needs first before accessing our services to them if we match their thoughts.

    Many people also romantic the fact with the same kit or gear like the professionals, they too can be the next best thing for our profession. Power to them! I still profess more love for photography than tools. I get more excited in the act of photography than the photographic equipment itself.

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