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Thread: is PP really needed???

  1. #101

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeeming9 View Post
    So the credit goes to the photographer, or the digital artist?
    if two people worked on it, then both, of course.

    if not, then does it really matter? the camera is merely a means to show what you see.

    even using a telephoto or wide lens is not a true representation of reality. no one is going to be able to stand at the spot x he stood at, and be able to shoot a 15mm perspective. or even have a frame that is rectangular. now, if you want to be really anal, then why not consider that too?

  2. #102

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by gooseberry View Post
    BTW - that analogy about PP being like makeup is a totally wrong analogy.
    Interesting. I prithee, explain.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    if two people worked on it, then both, of course.

    if not, then does it really matter? the camera is merely a means to show what you see.

    even using a telephoto or wide lens is not a true representation of reality. no one is going to be able to stand at the spot x he stood at, and be able to shoot a 15mm perspective. or even have a frame that is rectangular. now, if you want to be really anal, then why not consider that too?
    If you bought a durian but it taste like an apple. You go after the supermarket or the farmer?
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  4. #104

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeeming9 View Post
    If you bought a durian but it taste like an apple. You go after the supermarket or the farmer?
    this is really getting quite ridiculous.

    if the durian was originally an apple, then it means that whoever did the modification was not skilled enough.

    the issue here is whether your apple modification is done properly. if it is done properly, people will take it as a durian, and there will be no issue with anybody.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    this is really getting quite ridiculous.

    if the durian was originally an apple, then it means that whoever did the modification was not skilled enough.

    the issue here is whether your apple modification is done properly. if it is done properly, people will take it as a durian, and there will be no issue with anybody.
    An apple is an apple. It could be a round one or a oval one. It don't matter.

    But take an apple and make it looked like a durian is not right.
    Canon EOS 7D | EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 | EF 24-105mm f/4L | 580EX II
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  6. #106

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    You have finally break the monotonous view of this discussion. How much PP or changes is consider acceptable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeeming9 View Post
    An apple is an apple. It could be a round one or a oval one. It don't matter.

    But take an apple and make it looked like a durian is not right.

  7. #107

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeeming9 View Post
    An apple is an apple. It could be a round one or a oval one. It don't matter.

    But take an apple and make it looked like a durian is not right.
    what if the farmer wanted a durian, but got an apple because of poor soil?

  8. #108
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    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by spheredome View Post
    You have finally break the monotonous view of this discussion. How much PP or changes is consider acceptable?
    IMHO, there is no right or wrong for this discussion. We just need to define ourselves as a photographer or a digital artist. Too excessive PP will make you a digital artist.

    If you can PP an apple to become a durian, you are a very creative digital artist.
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  9. #109
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    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    what if the farmer wanted a durian, but got an apple because of poor soil?
    Give the digital artist a call.
    Canon EOS 7D | EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 | EF 24-105mm f/4L | 580EX II
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  10. #110

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeeming9 View Post
    Give the digital artist a call.
    how come suddenly got digital artist appear in agriculture.. .. you give me analogy, then i work within it.. then you escape your analogy!

    just kidding.

    anyways, i guess there is a general agreement that the results speak for themselves. there is certainly a basic level of subjectivity, but i think most people are going to be able to agree in unison about "good", "bad", "too much" "too little", etc.

  11. #111

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Hey your durian to apple on poor soil analogy has another meaning too..... Making an real ugly duckling to become a beautiful swan

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    how come suddenly got digital artist appear in agriculture.. .. you give me analogy, then i work within it.. then you escape your analogy!

    just kidding.

    anyways, i guess there is a general agreement that the results speak for themselves. there is certainly a basic level of subjectivity, but i think most people are going to be able to agree in unison about "good", "bad", "too much" "too little", etc.

  12. #112

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Your camera already done some PP once you took your photographs. So it doesnt show the true picture as it was. So the only way to capture real image is your eyes.. hmm... no, your brain already PPed for you too. Conclusion is that nothing you see is a true real picture or image without already PP. So now you can dig out your eyes already.
    Canon 40D|50mm|35mm|10-20mm|17-55mm|580 II

  13. #113

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    To those who are just pure ignorant about PP & photography
    and still called yourself photographer, only because you owe a camera,

    Before you continue to brag about photography, please do read, watch and learn more about the great masters of photography and their works. There is a lot of books in the library, a lot of film documentary in the internet [Youtube]. Many top photographers learned in college. Many are self-taught. And what is 'self-taught'? Taking thousand of photos isn't self-taught. Owning expensive camera equipments isn't self-taught. Learning a lot about your camera equipments doesn't make you a better photographer, But it Does make you a good Salesman.


    From street photographers to magazine/ product photographers to studio photographers to war photographers, there is no pro photographer in this world who don't do post proceed. When you tell me PP is not needed for a good photographer, it seems that you're trying to say your work are better than them because you don't post proceed.
    Last edited by iNotion; 28th October 2009 at 12:40 PM.

  14. #114

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    what do you guys think of stuff like this?

    http://denisolivier.deviantart.com/gallery/#Dreamspace

    i love it.

  15. #115

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Please give your views:

    1) With PP tools being so common and available, will the general skills degrade as years progress for users. Please give your opinion. E.g keyboard has indeed reduced the ability of people to write in the world.

    2) Do you value your photo session or picture (you choose) more without PP or with PP.

    3) You are to selecting between 2 photographers, one who "provides" PP and one hardcore who die die won't, for "your" outdoor wedding shot. Who would you choose assuming same price or different price.

    4) What is the % (ratio) of people who uses camera around you (family, friend and colleagues) do "serious" post processing like you. Please exclude CS members unless you are all alone in the world.

  16. #116
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    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    what do you guys think of stuff like this?

    http://denisolivier.deviantart.com/gallery/#Dreamspace

    i love it.
    I like that orange too.

    In fact, I enjoy many different types of fruits. Just that sometimes I prefer dragonfruit over watermelon sometimes. It doesn't matter what the name of the fruit is, so long as it tastes good at the moment I taste it!

  17. #117
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    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    what do you guys think of stuff like this?

    http://denisolivier.deviantart.com/gallery/#Dreamspace

    i love it.
    Very nice. I love it too
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  18. #118
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    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    what do you guys think of stuff like this?

    http://denisolivier.deviantart.com/gallery/#Dreamspace

    i love it.


    Thanks for sharing, man! Love the surreality

  19. #119

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by ianhyk View Post
    I'd be VERY careful when i say PP is not cheating.. for surely it is. When we modify an image, add contrast brightness etc, we're changing reality, or what we see through the frame. But I think the bigger question here is, is it OK to cheat as photographers? Must our photos always represent reality, or can it even in the first place?

    My opinion is that unless you're a photo journalist or press photographer, then it's perfectly fine to do PP, because you have no responsibility to represent what you see objectively. So in that sense i have no qualms about manipulating pixels, since it's for art sake.
    the border line between enhancement and cheating is thin... so all of us can have a nver ending debate about this.

    if some don't like PP, then just don't do it! period. stop saying that you are better than everyone who does PP because we all know it is not like that.

    =)
    Nikon D90 : Nikkor 18-200VRII : Nikkor 18-55 VR : Nikkor 50mm f1.8 : Nikon SB-900

  20. #120

    Default Re: is PP really needed???

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeeming9 View Post
    So the credit goes to the photographer, or the digital artist?
    its like building a plane...howard hughes is clever at building great planes, yes, but he's not the one building the actual thing. he hires other ppl to build it.

    its like a project. u may do all the work, but ur boss will get the credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by spheredome View Post
    Please give your views:

    1) With PP tools being so common and available, will the general skills degrade as years progress for users. Please give your opinion. E.g keyboard has indeed reduced the ability of people to write in the world.

    2) Do you value your photo session or picture (you choose) more without PP or with PP.

    3) You are to selecting between 2 photographers, one who "provides" PP and one hardcore who die die won't, for "your" outdoor wedding shot. Who would you choose assuming same price or different price.

    4) What is the % (ratio) of people who uses camera around you (family, friend and colleagues) do "serious" post processing like you. Please exclude CS members unless you are all alone in the world.
    1) not so. taking photos and PP-ing them is not analogous to writing with a pen and paper and typing with a keyboard.
    2) i value quality output, be it with or without PP.
    3) the one with PP for the assurance that the end result is almost always assured to look good. else, post complaint in forum and hope complete strangers will ease ur mind.
    4) zero...i'm the only one taking photos and doing any PP. the others just post pariah quality, blurry, noisy and awful jpegs straight from their cam-phone.

    on another note about PP being cheating...well...the point of taking a photograph is to capture the essence of the moment, yes? and if the essence of the moment does not have pesky dirt spots, interfering gulls, wayward jaywalker, ugly signboard (blah blah blah), would anyone miss them? of coz not! coz the essence is preserved with the PP-ed image!

    unless TS (or any purist...zzzzz) is a forensic photographer (even here i have my doubts...but.....), then so be it lor...no one points a gun at ur head and force u to PP.
    Last edited by shiruikage; 28th October 2009 at 09:06 PM.
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