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Thread: Flash on kids

  1. #41

    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwork77 View Post
    Hi rains, welcome...

    In answer to your question, I used Nikon D90 before. there are some slight adjustment you got to make.

    (1) If you are using the built in flash that comes with the camera, pop up the flash and than use a white card and tape it to the front of the flash at an angle so that the light flashes upwards and away from the face of your kids. The trick is to use a simple home made reflector angled at around 45 deg. However, if you are using a Nikon Flash like SB600, then it allows you to tilt it upwards and away from the subject.

    (2) When you take a photo indoors without flash, the camera will compensate for it by automatically increase the ISO from 200 to 1600 which will give you a grainy image or a colourful grainy image. The trick here is to adjust the camera ISO settings such that it is fixed at ISO 200. This is where we set the AUTO ISO feature ON or OFF. Set it to OFF. Auto ISO magically bumps up the ISO as the light gets weaker, saving you a lot of time since you no longer need to watch your lighting or shutter speeds. Set this and just shoot, from daylight to moonlight.

    Auto ISO leaves the ISO alone until the shutter speed would get slower then the Minimum shutter speed set below. If the light (or your camera settings) would cause a slower speed, Auto ISO increases the ISO so the shutter speed remains at the slowest setting below.

    Auto ISO keeps increasing the ISO as the light dims until it hits the Maximum sensitivity you've set, after which the shutter speed will be allowed to get longer than what you've set.

    (3) Don't use your hand to cover the flash. The heat output will burn your palm. And never use tissue paper to cover it either. The heat is sufficient to cause the paper to burn and you will then damage the flash surface.

    Lastly, never use strong direct lights at children below 6 months as their eyes have not fully developed. Use of strong light causes retinopathy and the damage is not reversable. 6 months is only a guide, but to be a careful parent, we should not be aiming flashes at them if we can help it.

    There's still Noise Reduction settings available on the camera if you have not already use it.

    Hope you find the forum to be a helpful place to get the answers to your questions. Sometimes you have to seperate the chaff from the trasures.
    Oh oh, thanks so much for your practical pointers! I just tried the tissue method a while ago and it didn't work very well for me, probably it's becos I didn't know how to place the tissue. I merely covered the flash with it but the image wasn't sharp and my kid told me the flash is still harsh. I'll try the white card later.

    Noise Reduction setting. That's something new to me. Thanks! I'll read up on that.

    So there's really some effect on the kids' eyes when you flash directly at them. Thanks!

    The forum is definitely rich with information and knowledge. Thanks for the wise words. I'll bear that in mind.

  2. #42
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwork77 View Post
    (3) Don't use your hand to cover the flash. The heat output will burn your palm. And never use tissue paper to cover it either. The heat is sufficient to cause the paper to burn and you will then damage the flash surface.
    I have used many tissue papers without even getting any brownish colour shade in the tissue. We are talking here about the pop-up flash, not a SB900 or 580EX.
    @rains: one ply of tissue paper is enough, just wrap loosely, fix with some rubber band. Adjust the FEC a bit lower if you are closer than 2m.

    Lastly, never use strong direct lights at children below 6 months as their eyes have not fully developed. Use of strong light causes retinopathy and the damage is not reversable. 6 months is only a guide, but to be a careful parent, we should not be aiming flashes at them if we can help it
    Can you bring a few links / data to back these statements? Are you referring to Solar Retinopathy? Please bear in mind the amount of energy that arrives at the children's eyes
    when the flash fires. It's by far less then what is needed to cause Solar Retinopathy. Light as electromagnetic radiation follow the inverse square law. With more distance and bouncing the energy is spread out. As mentioned: direct flash is just plain nonsense for any portrait, unless you go for some party snapshots after several beers / tequila / vodka ...
    EOS

  3. #43
    Member hotwork77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    I have used many tissue papers without even getting any brownish colour shade in the tissue. We are talking here about the pop-up flash, not a SB900 or 580EX.
    @rains: one ply of tissue paper is enough, just wrap loosely, fix with some rubber band. Adjust the FEC a bit lower if you are closer than 2m.


    Can you bring a few links / data to back these statements? Are you referring to Solar Retinopathy? Please bear in mind the amount of energy that arrives at the children's eyes
    when the flash fires. It's by far less then what is needed to cause Solar Retinopathy. Light as electromagnetic radiation follow the inverse square law. With more distance and bouncing the energy is spread out. As mentioned: direct flash is just plain nonsense for any portrait, unless you go for some party snapshots after several beers / tequila / vodka ...

    Hi Octarine, welcome...

    In reply to your posts, perhaps you are using Canon and the lady is using Nikon. There's no harm in trying something different if we are not comfortable using tissue paper. That's why it is a hobby. We experiement, we make mistakes and we learn from the experience.

    Lastly, its not Solar Retinopathy. Retinopathy is a generic term for a whole range of diseases affecting the eyes. View the full texts here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...?dopt=Citation

    As you have correctly pointed out that direct flash is plain nonsense for any potrait but that's exactly what every newbie would instinctly do when they take a snapshot. Hope we can group together and organise a photographic workshop for our newbie members.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by rains View Post
    Sigh ... In my previous post, there was only 1 line that I mentioned that you are insensitive, and you take it so hard, and took the effort to type out one long post to tell me I spent the BULK of my post saying that you're insensitive, when the bulk of my post was explaining why I said what I did. That further confirms my observation that you're really over-sensitive.

    If you haven't realised, I don't generalise my audience. And I didn't say that ALL of the people who bothered to reply are offensive and insensitive and blah blah blah. I did reply to specific audience on the offensive or insensitive ones. And I did express my appreciation to my audience separately. Perhaps your sensitive self have prevented you from reading all the posts, or maybe you'd read this thread with such bursts of anger that you skipped the different posts.

    Have you given any thought to why I would rather google for 'bounced flash' than ask the oldies on this thread what it is?

    I'm sure some of the insensitive and offensive ones will go 'Don't expect to be spoonfed' or 'You have to learn something yourself" or something to that effect. I do know how to read English, so I'll do just that myself. I appreciate that some of the posters gave me pointers on what to look out for, and most of them don't pepper their replies with sarcasm.

    Like I said, sometimes I don't intend it to be offensive, but overly sensitive people will take it that way and how can I help it if you choose to see it that way?

    But of course, sometimes, sarcasm reaps sarcasm. If you'd been sarcastic or offensive to me, why should I be nice to you? How would you like it if I teach you something you don't know and in between, I inject it with lines like "I'm sure you don't know this becos you're stupid". Would you thank me for the lesson?

    And although you’ve peppered your one-hour lesson with ‘Don’t say that ‘If I had know this, I wouldn’t have classified myself as a newbie’, which many would interpret as outright insult or sarcasm, I still thank you for the education.

    Do give some thoughts about how you treat others before expecting others to be nice to you. If you don't want offensive and insensitive replies, then don't give it to others in the first place. If you haven't noticed, I've always been the reactive. I never started it, but if someone wants it, I'll give it to him. You cannot expect to deal someone a blow and expect the other party to receive it gladly - tell someone off and ask someone to refrain from doing the same thing back to you. To me, that's warped. Whatever you sow, you reap.

    That said, I shall explain to you why D700 is out of my consideration. As I mentioned in another reply, the salesperson recommended me a D60 becos he thought D90 is too heavy for me. So I couldn't possibly handle the weight of a D300 which I really wanted, much less a D700. And I'm sure if I ever get a D300 even, someone will say it's an overkill bcos I am a newbie.

    If you take offense at what I reply, perhaps you might want to zip your lips and freeze your fingers, I appreciate all your input, minus the hostilities.

    Oops! I just saw that it's 2 lines that I mentioned that you are insensitive. Not 1. Okay. I stand corrected.
    Last edited by diediealsomustdive; 24th October 2009 at 07:06 PM.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Flash on kids

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345151

    This one shouldnt be too difficult to make right? you can replace that with a white plastic cup if you dont need the film.

  6. #46
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash on kids

    to rains:

    FYI, I'm a father of fours.

    photographers being shoot babies with flash for many years, if have any ill effort, by now should be all surface liao, and the professional photographer association will expel any members for using flash on babies, and everyday many old photographers get sued by countless parents, and prison are full of many old photographers too.

    Yes, we make a living by taking photos, we know what we are doing, if it is not safe to us or our customers, we won't do it.

    for you, if you think it is not safe, just shoot your baby with available light.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  7. #47

    Default Re: Flash on kids

    EEKS!

    Visualize for a moment, prisons around the world full of ah-pek photographers flashing each other!
    Last edited by Dream Merchant; 25th October 2009 at 12:12 AM.

  8. #48
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwork77 View Post
    Lastly, its not Solar Retinopathy. Retinopathy is a generic term for a whole range of diseases affecting the eyes. View the full texts here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...?dopt=Citation
    From the link:
    Photic retinopathy was produced in two patients after a 60-minute exposure to light from an operating room microscope (Zeiss OpMi 6).
    1h exposure exceeds everything I can imagine with regards to flash and strobes. Are these two cases really comparable? A flash itself is a point light source that we aim to diffuse. Even without diffuser the reflector behind the flash will do this to a certain extend. The microscope in contrast will bundle the light on a tiny area (the operation area).
    EOS

  9. #49
    Member hotwork77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    From the link:

    1h exposure exceeds everything I can imagine with regards to flash and strobes. Are these two cases really comparable? A flash itself is a point light source that we aim to diffuse. Even without diffuser the reflector behind the flash will do this to a certain extend. The microscope in contrast will bundle the light on a tiny area (the operation area).

    Octarine...read the full text. The summary does not tell you the full picture.

    Anyways, if you deem it safe to flash kids and babies then please continue. Don't stop just because my views are different. By the same analogy, my smoker friends said it is safe to smoke 2 packs a day. There are many arguments for and against.

    As a parent, I don't suppose there's is any harm to err on the side of caution.

  10. #50
    Moderator Octarine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwork77 View Post
    Octarine...read the full text. The summary does not tell you the full picture.
    Does this require any login? I would like to read the full text but can't seem to get to it.

    Anyways, if you deem it safe to flash kids and babies then please continue. Don't stop just because my views are different. By the same analogy, my smoker friends said it is safe to smoke 2 packs a day. There are many arguments for and against.
    Never said so, my statements are further up in the thread. Apart from that I want to see facts and figures. Your smoker friends seems to be blind to that.

    Back to topic. If there is any medical study showing a direct impact of flash light (or any other light with similar power and duration) to the human eye then let's share this knowledge. But since there aren't even legal cases turning such facts into money by suing photographers I guess there's nothing much.
    Last edited by Octarine; 25th October 2009 at 10:49 AM.
    EOS

  11. #51
    Member hotwork77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flash on kids

    Quote Originally Posted by Octarine View Post
    Does this require any login? I would like to read the full text but can't seem to get to it.


    Never said so, my statements are further up in the thread. Apart from that I want to see facts and figures. Your smoker friends seems to be blind to that.

    Back to topic. If there is any medical study showing a direct impact of flash light (or any other light with similar power and duration) to the human eye then let's share this knowledge. But since there aren't even legal cases turning such facts into money by suing photographers I guess there's nothing much.

    Octarine...I never state that you said it or said anything. I merely mentioned that if and a big if you deem it safe then by all means go ahead. Don't stop simply because I hold a different view.

    As you have pointed out in your last statement, I'm sharing this knowledge with you. The medical study was about impact of strong lights on the retina. Register and login to read the full text and there's a payment required.

    Time to scoop...

  12. #52

    Default Re: Flash on kids

    rains, just use ISO3200 or more, I reckon it'll solve your worries, no need to use flash.
    No doubt your photos may look a bit grainy but so much better than worrying abt the use of flash.

    Set to AP(aperture priority)
    Set aperture to biggest.(smallest f number)
    Set ISo to 3200 or more.

    * Shutter speed should now be at an acceptable level for handheld. If not, use a chair, wall or whatever to rest your arms to stabilize them b4 you shoot.

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