View Poll Results: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

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  • Yes

    28 56.00%
  • No

    19 38.00%
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    3 6.00%
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Thread: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    I want a min wage double my current pay..

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    4) don't exaggerate. "malnourished, thin, hungry".sheesh. Small businesses usually don't hire that many staff. Staff costs are less an issue than rent. If I raise the staff costs $1000, that's still much less than alot of rent increases over the past 2 years.
    But wages haven't risen in tandem with inflation the same way rent has risen exponentially faster than inflation.

    5) if you have a minimum wage, then foreign employment becomes less of an issue because they can't undercut (less foreigners with lower standards of living willing to work for less
    money)
    I agree.
    Some company scream alot because their business relies too much on cheap labour eg: cleaning contractors. They undercut each other by offering lower prices, and guess who has to suffer this business strategy?

  3. #23

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    I think there's no congruence between sustaining a profitable country from a macro perspective and ensuring the feasibility of smaller units in the society such as individuals. But will it be ever ethical to forgo smaller units in the society that make up the country in order push for a better macroeconomic number and thence justify the high pay of it's administrators? If a CEO and it's executive can peg their pay to the best earners; why is it that the ordinary workers' pay being thrown into competition with third world countries, emerging economies and developing countries? What does this mean to you, your families or other units of the society?
    Last edited by eyes; 21st October 2009 at 04:26 PM.
    Tum podem extulit horridulum...日出東方﹐唯我不敗。

  4. #24

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    If your business overheads suddenly jack up by a huge amount simply because of the introduction of a minimum wage, then you either have alot of waitresses or your margins are too low.
    Are you saying that you pay your waitresses very very little?
    If we introduce a minimum wage of $6 an hour, how much will your business costs rise?
    $2000?
    Let me give a simple example. Say I have a stall at a hawker centre, my net income after all expenses is 3k. I employ 2 PRC workers to help prepare ingrediants, serve food etc. I pay them $1000 a month to work from 11am to 10pm for 6 days a week. If you have a minimum wage $5 an hour I will have to pay them $5 x 13 hours a day x 26 days a month = 1.7k. Expenses will increase by 700 x 2 = 1.4k and my income will fall from 3k to 1.6k

    For medium range restaurants of course it is not so big a problem since the payroll cost is a smaller portion of all expenses, it is more of a problem for the small hawkers that sell $3 lunches.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post

    3) What is your basis for this? Or is this just what you imagine will happen?
    it is simple logic. while you might wish to claim that minimum wage jobs tend to be the kind which requires minimal training, and you would not be far off.. some still require some form of training.

    take for example macdonald's. i don't think fry frying is as intuitive as knowing how to clean the floor. you can't deny that companies actually have budgets set aside for labour. i don't think many will be willing to increase the amount spent in the short run at least; when you think of it this way, wages has to take up a larger proportion; human development/training a smaller.
    4) don't exaggerate. "malnourished, thin, hungry".sheesh. Small businesses usually don't hire that many staff. Staff costs are less an issue than rent. If I raise the staff costs $1000, that's still much less than alot of rent increases over the past 2 years.
    But wages haven't risen in tandem with inflation the same way rent has risen exponentially faster than inflation.
    now, what you say is true. but note, you have not addressed the point. you merely point out that small businesses have bigger problems to face, bigger fish to fry than labour costs.

    fine, they have bigger problems. doesn't mean that you add a few more. you can't say for sure that raising the staff costs by $1000, will not add strain to the rental problems. it might very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back.


    5) if you have a minimum wage, then foreign employment becomes less of an issue because they can't undercut (less foreigners with lower standards of living willing to work for less
    money)
    you unnecessarily assume that employers actually will hire singaporeans over foreigners, given a choice between a and b. i think, it is not necessarily the case.


    anyways, just throwing in a few points. obviously any firm believer in modern economics would tell you that minimum wage laws are bad...

  6. #26

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by eyes View Post
    I think there's no congruence between sustaining a profitable country from a macro perspective and ensuring the feasibility of smaller units in the society such as individuals. But will it be ever ethical to forgo smaller units in the society that make up the country in order push for a better macroeconomic number and thence justify the high pay of it's administrators? If a CEO and it's executive can peg their pay to the best earners; why is it that the ordinary workers' pay being thrown into competition with third world countries, emerging economies and developing countries? What does this mean to you, your families or other units of the society?
    now, no need to turn this into something else and politicise it.

    well, one could also say that when you target macroeconomic numbers, you will equally benefit the poor.

    david dollar's study here, although based on extremely fluffy data seems to back up this. but then again, he's from the world bank.. which likes such things.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    This min. wage issue is long overdue. Like i said afew times,the starting pay for fresh diploma graduates is about S$1.6 . This has been the rate for the past 12 or more years or so at least.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by zj2000 View Post
    Let me give a simple example. Say I have a stall at a hawker centre, my net income after all expenses is 3k. I employ 2 PRC workers to help prepare ingrediants, serve food etc. I pay them $1000 a month to work from 11am to 10pm for 6 days a week. If you have a minimum wage $5 an hour I will have to pay them $5 x 13 hours a day x 26 days a month = 1.7k. Expenses will increase by 700 x 2 = 1.4k and my income will fall from 3k to 1.6k

    For medium range restaurants of course it is not so big a problem since the payroll cost is a smaller portion of all expenses, it is more of a problem for the small hawkers that sell $3 lunches.
    How many bowls of noodles (for example you sell noodles) do you sell in a month?
    I don't deny that costs will HAVE to be passed on to the consumer.
    And knowing asian businessmen they will raise the cost as much as possible and blame GST, food prices rising, etc etc (yah right as if a $3 bowl of noodles needs a 50cent increase to offset GST increase of 2%)
    The good thing with competition is that if you raise your costs too much your consumer will go somewhere else.

    But at the end of the day the small people will be protected to some degree with a minimum wage (otherwise bosses will pay as little as they can)
    Perhaps with a minimum wage there will be less reason for people to hire cheap foreigners too, since they all cost a certain amount

    I just feel like Singapore is one country where employers pay as low as they can, and then make people work overtime without paying them.
    Employers also take advantage of the fact that people stay with their parents and don't need to pay rent.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    For Richer Or Poorer by Roger Mitton (Asiaweek on Singapore)
    Tum podem extulit horridulum...日出東方﹐唯我不敗。

  10. #30

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    sg should not have minimum wage.

    Minimum wage must be set above market value, otherwise imposing a minimum wage is useless.

    With a compulsary higher wage, quantity demanded of labour will reduce, but supply of labour will increase. This gives rise to more people unemployed. This is basic economics.

    But sg is almost fully employed. iirc, unemployment is like 2%. So where is the additional supply of labour going to come from? Cheap foreigners. They will come pouring in.

    Except these cheap foreigners cannot find jobs, so they will settle for lower pay. Illegally, of course. In the end lowering wages even more. The so-called black market.

    The fear that foreigners can undercut singaporeans in terms of wages hence comes true.

    But that's not all. sg does not practise any effective discrimination against foreigners. Per capita gdp between residents and non-residents are almost the same. This means singaporeans will be competing against foreigners in equal footing.

    And singaporeans will be competing against even more foreign labour for fewer jobs. Including, unfortunately, the low-wage category. These low income earners are the ones you want to help, but you just invited foreigners here that will settle for lower pay, hence squeezing them out.

    The problem sg faces is not much in terms of minimum wage. It's something else.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?



    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    sg should not have minimum wage.

    Minimum wage must be set above market value, otherwise imposing a minimum wage is useless.

    With a compulsary higher wage, quantity demanded of labour will reduce, but supply of labour will increase. This gives rise to more people unemployed. This is basic economics.

    But sg is almost fully employed. iirc, unemployment is like 2%. So where is the additional supply of labour going to come from? Cheap foreigners. They will come pouring in.

    Except these cheap foreigners cannot find jobs, so they will settle for lower pay. Illegally, of course. In the end lowering wages even more. The so-called black market.

    The fear that foreigners can undercut singaporeans in terms of wages hence comes true.

    But that's not all. sg does not practise any effective discrimination against foreigners. Per capita gdp between residents and non-residents are almost the same. This means singaporeans will be competing against foreigners in equal footing.

    And singaporeans will be competing against even more foreign labour for fewer jobs. Including, unfortunately, the low-wage category. These low income earners are the ones you want to help, but you just invited foreigners here that will settle for lower pay, hence squeezing them out.

    The problem sg faces is not much in terms of minimum wage. It's something else.
    Tum podem extulit horridulum...日出東方﹐唯我不敗。

  12. #32

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    I honestly feel that the minimum wage proposal will create a bigger divide and drive business nuts.

    If i were a business owner, and if i have a team of old aunties working few hrs a day for few times a week (ie <$500 a month). With the new law, i will probably fire the whole lot and get a few 12hrs a day FT to replace their roles and giving them 2 off days a month.

    This is pure economics and if more bills are passed, the only other way is a mad inflation rush on goods and services. Perhaps this is what the politician are driving at after all.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?

    Tum podem extulit horridulum...日出東方﹐唯我不敗。

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Do you think Singapore should have minimum wage?


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