Kiev 88 (P6) mount Lenses

Obzervr · 19th January 2004

Hi,

I'm building a Kiev 88 MLU (modified P6 mount) budget system and would like to seek advice on buying lenses. At this juncture, I am eyeing a CZJ 4/50 Flektogon & a CZJ Sonnar 2.8/180.

For my 35mm photography, I usually shoot with a 20mm, 50mm, 100mm and occassionally 16mm & 200mm (all manual lenses). I haven't familiarised with medium format photography & wondering if it is wise to follow the 35mm range of lenses.

Another issue is Multi Coat. Earlier versions of CZJ lenses (zebra version) are single coated and later versions multi coated with a premium in price. How important is the MC (all my 35mm lenses are MC so I cannot compare)? Can i compromise, let's say for the wide angle without MC and the Mid-tele with MC or vice-versa?

Presently, I am using a Kiev 6C 6x6 & Pentacon 6 TL (modified 6x4.5) with CZJ 2.8/80 biometar MC. The Kiev 88 (P6 MLU) will be replacing the Kiev 6C shortly.

Thanks in Advance.

kex · 19th January 2004

favorurite focal length stays the same for MF,u are just shooting with a bigger negatives and less DOF.
As for the lens coating,i dun see any issue with or without it,my rolleicord is about 40yrs old and the contrast is very nice..
i would advise u to go with one standard lens 1st(90mm?) portraits can be done with a 90mm + cropping the negatives afterward to achieve the same results u get with a tele..That's one big advantage of shooting with a bigger piece of negative.

dlock · 20th January 2004

I have both the lenses you mentioned. The sonnar 180/2.8 is a huge lens. I prefer the MC version as they look much better. Camera Workshop has one mint version for $450. I think is quite a good price. The sonnars are sharp lenses if you can keep the camera steady (its Big!).The flektogons are beautiful, the MC versions especially and are keepers and are hard to come by locally. I bought both from ebay but was highly selective and it took me a long time. Please watch out for white deposits around the rim of the 2nd section of the lenses ( it seem to have this problem for quite a few samples i have seen). The newest batches have only 5 numbers in their serial numbers.

With regards to the MC, its a price and aesthetic issue. I do believe the MC versions shoot better but i do not have a comparison. Coatings are important..to increase the accutancy and contrast of your image. I am keeping them, so i went for the newer versions.

Just a note....parlin ( an expert in these lenses) prefers some russian lenses in the same mount to the Carl Ziess ones. He specially mentioned the kaleinar 120mm and vega 90mm really stands out. For budget reasons, these lenses although less historical, probably makes better sense if you shoot more than collect. They have the latest in coating technology. Again, best source is ebay. Be careful of some dealers claiming new when its actually not. (really a luck of the draw...then again, its cheap so you won't loose much).

The biometar 80, flektogon 50 and Sonnar 180...makes a good start kit. Probably covers most of your shooting ranges except for the 200mm (in 35mm). Good luck and looking forward to your images when you shoot with the lenses.

Obzervr · 20th January 2004

Thanks dLock for your valuable input. From the way you describe the Sonnar, it altered my idea of the lens. It looks rather compact from the photos. Anyway, I'll be completing a purchase through ebay for a flektogon soon. I am also considering a Kaleinar 2.8/150 but haven't read much about it.

If you don't mind, may I know which body are you using for these lenses?

Thanks & Regards

dlock · 21st January 2004

I use the kiev 60. An oversized 35mm camera on 6x6 format. I love the square format as it makes you a little more careful with your composition. Further, its aesthetically quite pleasing.

The sonnar without its hood is smaller. Then again, i feel you should not give this lens a miss...its a good lens.

the Kaleinar 150/2.8 is heavy although more compact than the sonnar. You will not regret the vega 90.

Good luck!

Obzervr · 21st January 2004

Originally Posted by dlock

I use the kiev 60. An oversized 35mm camera on 6x6 format. I love the square format as it makes you a little more careful with your composition. Further, its aesthetically quite pleasing.

The sonnar without its hood is smaller. Then again, i feel you should not give this lens a miss...its a good lens.

the Kaleinar 150/2.8 is heavy although more compact than the sonnar. You will not regret the vega 90.

Good luck!

Hi dlock, I've just completed a purchase thru ebay for a Flektogon MC. It has a 4 digit number though. I've recently adapted my Kiev 6C to accept 35mm film giving XPan like panorama using. I am looking forward to try it with the Flektogon.Experimental

Ayway, here is a sample pic I took with the 6C and 2.8/80 Biometar.
Twin Towers

Did you encounter any problems so far with the Kiev 60?

regards

Obzervr · 30th January 2004

Yes.. my Flektogon finally arrived and managed to try out the experimental pano by using the Kiev6C and 35mm film. My framing is still a bit out as the mask I made for the viewfinder was still a little bit too large. Here are samples:
Panoramic Cheat

Cross Cultural Confusion

japanese invasion

szekiat · 30th January 2004

i'm more curious how u did the framing...was contemplating doing it on my m645

Obzervr · 30th January 2004

I am using a 6X6 SLR type body. With a 35 mmroll, I get an effective working area of 24mm x 60mm. However, when I used it on my 645 Pentacon Six body, I get an effective working are of 24mm x 45mm (which is roughly only 10mm wider than a normal 35mm camera). Also, since I am trying to emulate an Xpan look, it works better with a wide angle lens (CZJ 4/50 Flektogon a rough equivalent to 30mm? on a 135 cam)

Loading:
On the 6x6, I load the film onto the take up spool as per using a 120 roll. There the 35mm roll will run through the middle of the camera. I do not do any masking on the back (therefore the exposure will spill over to the sprocket holes as I'll be cropping it later). However, I mask the viewfinder screen (after several tries) manage to narrow the framing well within the effective area on the film). I don't see any advantage of using on my Pentacon Six TL 645 body as it has only a slight increase in exposure area.

If you are using a TLR, probably you'll get to do it with a vertical working area (meaning.. you frame it vertically). As you'll be loading the vertically via the film back. Sorry I couldn't post pictures. I don't have a digicam with me (The battery compartment broke and I don't see a point repairing).

Tried to load one roll of 135 film on my Kiev 88 Back and sad to say, it'll need some reworking on the back. So for pano shots, it'll strictly be on my Kiev 6C.

boopoo · 28th July 2004

Is there any adpator 4 Kiev88 len to kiev 60 bought the wrong mount kiev88 mount 4 kiev 60 anyone can tell me isnt any adpator to covert to kiev60 mount thk ...LEN is 45mm 3.5 thk

choen · 29th July 2004

I do use the single coated CZJ 180 and 120. No extraordinary flares and ghosting (flares do exist even with the most modern ultra coated lenses).

19th January 2004	#1
Obzervr Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Khatib - Singapore Posts: 351	Kiev 88 (P6) mount Lenses Hi, I'm building a Kiev 88 MLU (modified P6 mount) budget system and would like to seek advice on buying lenses. At this juncture, I am eyeing a CZJ 4/50 Flektogon & a CZJ Sonnar 2.8/180. For my 35mm photography, I usually shoot with a 20mm, 50mm, 100mm and occassionally 16mm & 200mm (all manual lenses). I haven't familiarised with medium format photography & wondering if it is wise to follow the 35mm range of lenses. Another issue is Multi Coat. Earlier versions of CZJ lenses (zebra version) are single coated and later versions multi coated with a premium in price. How important is the MC (all my 35mm lenses are MC so I cannot compare)? Can i compromise, let's say for the wide angle without MC and the Mid-tele with MC or vice-versa? Presently, I am using a Kiev 6C 6x6 & Pentacon 6 TL (modified 6x4.5) with CZJ 2.8/80 biometar MC. The Kiev 88 (P6 MLU) will be replacing the Kiev 6C shortly. Thanks in Advance.

20th January 2004	#3
dlock Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Eastside Posts: 87	Carl Ziess Lenses I have both the lenses you mentioned. The sonnar 180/2.8 is a huge lens. I prefer the MC version as they look much better. Camera Workshop has one mint version for $450. I think is quite a good price. The sonnars are sharp lenses if you can keep the camera steady (its Big!).The flektogons are beautiful, the MC versions especially and are keepers and are hard to come by locally. I bought both from ebay but was highly selective and it took me a long time. Please watch out for white deposits around the rim of the 2nd section of the lenses ( it seem to have this problem for quite a few samples i have seen). The newest batches have only 5 numbers in their serial numbers. With regards to the MC, its a price and aesthetic issue. I do believe the MC versions shoot better but i do not have a comparison. Coatings are important..to increase the accutancy and contrast of your image. I am keeping them, so i went for the newer versions. Just a note....parlin ( an expert in these lenses) prefers some russian lenses in the same mount to the Carl Ziess ones. He specially mentioned the kaleinar 120mm and vega 90mm really stands out. For budget reasons, these lenses although less historical, probably makes better sense if you shoot more than collect. They have the latest in coating technology. Again, best source is ebay. Be careful of some dealers claiming new when its actually not. (really a luck of the draw...then again, its cheap so you won't loose much). The biometar 80, flektogon 50 and Sonnar 180...makes a good start kit. Probably covers most of your shooting ranges except for the 200mm (in 35mm). Good luck and looking forward to your images when you shoot with the lenses.

30th January 2004	#9
Obzervr Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Khatib - Singapore Posts: 351	I am using a 6X6 SLR type body. With a 35 mmroll, I get an effective working area of 24mm x 60mm. However, when I used it on my 645 Pentacon Six body, I get an effective working are of 24mm x 45mm (which is roughly only 10mm wider than a normal 35mm camera). Also, since I am trying to emulate an Xpan look, it works better with a wide angle lens (CZJ 4/50 Flektogon a rough equivalent to 30mm? on a 135 cam) Loading: On the 6x6, I load the film onto the take up spool as per using a 120 roll. There the 35mm roll will run through the middle of the camera. I do not do any masking on the back (therefore the exposure will spill over to the sprocket holes as I'll be cropping it later). However, I mask the viewfinder screen (after several tries) manage to narrow the framing well within the effective area on the film). I don't see any advantage of using on my Pentacon Six TL 645 body as it has only a slight increase in exposure area. If you are using a TLR, probably you'll get to do it with a vertical working area (meaning.. you frame it vertically). As you'll be loading the vertically via the film back. Sorry I couldn't post pictures. I don't have a digicam with me (The battery compartment broke and I don't see a point repairing). Tried to load one roll of 135 film on my Kiev 88 Back and sad to say, it'll need some reworking on the back. So for pano shots, it'll strictly be on my Kiev 6C. Last edited by Obzervr; 25th February 2004 at 02:11 PM.

28th July 2004	#10
boopoo Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,395	nEED help advice Is there any adpator 4 Kiev88 len to kiev 60 bought the wrong mount kiev88 mount 4 kiev 60 anyone can tell me isnt any adpator to covert to kiev60 mount thk ...LEN is 45mm 3.5 thk

19th January 2004	#2
kex Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: beebox Posts: 2,101	favorurite focal length stays the same for MF,u are just shooting with a bigger negatives and less DOF. As for the lens coating,i dun see any issue with or without it,my rolleicord is about 40yrs old and the contrast is very nice.. i would advise u to go with one standard lens 1st(90mm?) portraits can be done with a 90mm + cropping the negatives afterward to achieve the same results u get with a tele..That's one big advantage of shooting with a bigger piece of negative.

21st January 2004	#5
dlock Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Eastside Posts: 87	I use the kiev 60. An oversized 35mm camera on 6x6 format. I love the square format as it makes you a little more careful with your composition. Further, its aesthetically quite pleasing. The sonnar without its hood is smaller. Then again, i feel you should not give this lens a miss...its a good lens. the Kaleinar 150/2.8 is heavy although more compact than the sonnar. You will not regret the vega 90. Good luck!

30th January 2004	#8
szekiat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,378	i'm more curious how u did the framing...was contemplating doing it on my m645

29th July 2004	#11
choen Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: the mind Posts: 101	I do use the single coated CZJ 180 and 120. No extraordinary flares and ghosting (flares do exist even with the most modern ultra coated lenses).