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Thread: No Bokeh

  1. #1

    Default No Bokeh

    If the subject is about 10m away and background is about 50m away. Will there be a bokeh effect on the background if I shoot with a 50mm f1.8 using AF. Cause I tried this morning and there is only a very very little bokeh effect. Is it my ignorance or because it is focusing at infinite length thats why there is no bokeh effect.

    I dont recall any article mention anything on this when i read through those article on bokeh. Thus coming here to seek advise from senior and expert. Do bear with me as a noob if my questions sounds ignorance.
    A photo is an art painted by light.

  2. #2

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    What aperture were you using?
    Alpha

  3. #3

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Sorry that I forgot to mention...

    I am using f2.8 initially but no bokeh so i try again using f2.0, but also no bokeh. Infact seem like same effect for both picture. Oh...I am using A mode.
    A photo is an art painted by light.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: No Bokeh

    you see using your camera LCD or computer screen? camera LCD won't show that much details... try using computer screen and see...

    else... increase the distance between subject and background...

    hope this helps...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Diavonex's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Try F1.8 should be better.

  6. #6

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Matter View Post
    Sorry that I forgot to mention...

    I am using f2.8 initially but no bokeh so i try again using f2.0, but also no bokeh. Infact seem like same effect for both picture. Oh...I am using A mode.

    Would focal length has an impact too? The longer it is, the shorter DOF?
    Last edited by kinky1971; 2nd October 2009 at 10:11 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    at infinity Distance there is no out of focus, so no bokeh.

    50m is probably way way way past infinity focus on the 50mm f1.8. aperture doesnt matter at this focussing distance.

    same concept applies to all lenses.

    longer focal length, infinity focus distance is further

    i.e. 10mm lens, infinity is probably achieved under 3 metres
    50mm maybe 10metres?
    85mm probably 25metres? i cant remmeber exact figures.

    but with longer focal lengths you have narrower composition area, so to shoot a person in full body you have to be reallly reallly far away..
    Last edited by proteonXPR; 2nd October 2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason: add more info
    pedantic.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Galdor's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Maybe you would like to post a picture to show us.
    Minolta. Konica Minolta. Sony

  9. #9
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Bokeh

    cut your camera to subject distance to half or one quarter if you can, and double your subject to background distance.

    or use a lens which double your focal length for what you use now.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  10. #10

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    But to be clear... There is NO SUCH THING as a "Bokeh effect". You can have the background out of focus, but bokeh itself is the *quality* of that out-of-focus area, NOT an "effect".
    Alpha

  11. #11
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Bokeh

    if too hard for you to understand, you can also try doing post production like this
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  12. #12

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    my nikkor 50mm f1.8 when focus in infinity, I can't snap a picture at all in AF mode.
    And when i switch to manual focus, the subject seems blur when capture. Is there sumthing wrong wif my lens or is this lens only suitable on taking subject within a 3m range only?

  13. #13

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by jaRv1s View Post
    you see using your camera LCD or computer screen? camera LCD won't show that much details... try using computer screen and see...

    else... increase the distance between subject and background...

    hope this helps...
    I am viewing through my LCD...cannot transfer image now so cannot view on monitor.
    distance is constraint... thats the further the subject can be infront of the back ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by kinky1971 View Post
    Would focal length has an impact too? The longer it is, the shorter DOF?
    This is my question too...
    A photo is an art painted by light.

  14. #14

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by proteonXPR View Post
    at infinity Distance there is no out of focus, so no bokeh.

    50m is probably way way way past infinity focus on the 50mm f1.8. aperture doesnt matter at this focussing distance.

    same concept applies to all lenses.

    longer focal length, infinity focus distance is further

    i.e. 10mm lens, infinity is probably achieved under 3 metres
    50mm maybe 10metres?
    85mm probably 25metres? i cant remmeber exact figures.

    but with longer focal lengths you have narrower composition area, so to shoot a person in full body you have to be reallly reallly far away..
    It is only my initial guess that at infinity there will be no bokeh...so it is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galdor View Post
    Maybe you would like to post a picture to show us.
    Now cannot transfer image to PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    cut your camera to subject distance to half or one quarter if you can, and double your subject to background distance.

    or use a lens which double your focal length for what you use now.
    All distance quite fixed and maybe thats the best I can be. Already trying to stand at close to my subject as possible and subject cannot be further infront of background (a building) anymore else I have no place to stand...
    A photo is an art painted by light.

  15. #15

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    But to be clear... There is NO SUCH THING as a "Bokeh effect". You can have the background out of focus, but bokeh itself is the *quality* of that out-of-focus area, NOT an "effect".
    Right, I read that in the forum. thanks for the reminder.
    A photo is an art painted by light.

  16. #16

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    if too hard for you to understand, you can also try doing post production like this
    I think I comprehend. But I prefer to be less dependent on PP, trying to get the most I can from the original shots.
    A photo is an art painted by light.

  17. #17

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Matter View Post
    If the subject is about 10m away and background is about 50m away. Will there be a bokeh effect on the background if I shoot with a 50mm f1.8 using AF. Cause I tried this morning and there is only a very very little bokeh effect. Is it my ignorance or because it is focusing at infinite length thats why there is no bokeh effect.

    I dont recall any article mention anything on this when i read through those article on bokeh. Thus coming here to seek advise from senior and expert. Do bear with me as a noob if my questions sounds ignorance.
    bokeh is affected by the depth of field..DOF "is the zone of focus" anything outside of that will be blurred, the character of this blurredness is what to we refer to as bokeh so that means shallower DOF=more bokehlicious..so if you want to have bokehlicious pictures you have to understand how DOF works..here are the rules:

    the golden rule:
    1.Equation 1: DOF~1/aperture. DOF is inversely proportional to aperture opening. Increasing aperture opening=decreasing DOF and vice versa.

    now what about the distance and focal length? how do they affect DOF?
    ASSUMING aperture opening is CONSTANT, here are the rules:

    2. Equation 2: DOF ~ distance. DOF is directly proportional to subject to camera distance. That is DOF will increase if you increase your distance to the subject, likewise it will decrease if you get closer to your subject.

    3. Equation 3: DOF ~ 1/focal. DOF is inversely proportional to focal length. That is DOF will decrease if you increase your focal length and vice versa.

    Now from 1, 2 and 3, we can also deduce that if we keep our subject in our sensor in the same size and assuming we use the same aperture, the DOF will not change (a zoomed in far away subject will have the same DOF with a closer subject with a small focal length) but take note that if you do this, you will have a different perspective (now that is a different topic)

    Now back to you, with what you are doing, you can't achieve a nice bokeh because you are just too far (10 meters) and a 50mm is not that long of a focal length...
    Last edited by gimumancer; 2nd October 2009 at 12:02 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by gimumancer View Post
    bokeh is affected by the depth of field..DOF "is the zone of focus" anything outside of that will be blurred, the character of this blurredness is what to we refer to as bokeh so that means shallower DOF=more bokehlicious..so if you want to have bokehlicious pictures you have to understand how DOF works..here are the rules:

    the golden rule:
    1.Equation 1: DOF~1/aperture. DOF is inversely proportional to aperture opening. Increasing aperture opening=decreasing DOF and vice versa.

    now what about the distance and focal length? how do they affect DOF?
    ASSUMING aperture opening is CONSTANT, here are the rules:

    2. Equation 2: DOF ~ distance. DOF is directly proportional to subject to camera distance. That is DOF will increase if you increase your distance to the subject, likewise it will decrease if you get closer to your subject.

    3. Equation 3: DOF ~ 1/focal. DOF is inversely proportional to focal length. That is DOF will decrease if you increase your focal length and vice versa.

    Now from 1, 2 and 3, we can also deduce that if we keep our subject in our sensor in the same size and assuming we use the same aperture, the DOF will not change (a zoomed in far away subject will have the same DOF with a closer subject with a small focal length) but take note that if you do this, you will have a different perspective (now that is a different topic)

    Now back to you, with what you are doing, you can't achieve a nice bokeh because you are just too far (10 meters) and a 50mm is not that long of a focal length...
    Does this implies that 50mm will only give nice bokeh within a distance of 0.45-3m the range state on the lens 0.45-3 after that is infinity.
    A photo is an art painted by light.

  19. #19
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Matter View Post
    Does this implies that 50mm will only give nice bokeh within a distance of 0.45-3m the range state on the lens 0.45-3 after that is infinity.
    50mm/1.8 will be able to render the background objects out-of-focus should the subject be within 3m of the camera, and the background objects significantly further away.
    Whether or not it gives nice bokeh is a subjective matter, as Rashkae has already explained about the term "bokeh".

    Even if your subject is 3m away and your background is 500m away, don't go expecting the kind of uniform blur that you usually see when photographers capture Premier League football shots. Those people are using lenses like 400mm f/2.8 or maybe even longer focal lengths.
    Exploring! :)

  20. #20
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    Default Re: No Bokeh

    Make use of DOF calculator,
    http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

    Although you may not be able to notice the background blurness on Camera screen, but on PC, it should be noticeable at your 50mm f/2.0 setting.
    Sony Alpha 700 hobbyist

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