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Thread: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

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    Default POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    as per subject.....

  2. #2

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    OMG

  3. #3

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)


  4. #4

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    I always tell my visiting foreigner colleagues that Singapore Inc. has two faces to it:

    One is the external facing Singapore Inc like Changi Airport, PSA, etc, with world-class standards and continually aspire to be the best.

    The other is the internal facing Singapore Inc like SMRT, SP, etc, that, well, have entirely different "aspirations" (or lack there of)

    Reality is our country's too small for multiple utilities providers. So their word (or price) is law. Suck it up, and cough it up.

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    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    I am no mathematician but how can a graph have 2 y-axis and they are of different units? why then can't I convert th eright hand side y-axis to say cents/KWDay? so it will appear much higher than the pink graph?

    Is it right that we use oil to generate electricity or we use natural gas?

    ../azul123

  6. #6

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    I am no mathematician but how can a graph have 2 y-axis and they are of different units? why then can't I convert th eright hand side y-axis to say cents/KWDay? so it will appear much higher than the pink graph?
    it is done sometimes, to show trends between two values over time..

    as to why sp does this, i think part of the price index is pegged to oil price.

    i guess, if you want to show a more direct relationship, you could make the right scale more differentiated..

  7. #7

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    Is it right that we use oil to generate electricity or we use natural gas?

    ../azul123
    well, a quick search, turns up this on the sp website here..

    i quote:

    Q3 Why do tariffs increase in tandem with higher fuel oil prices when 60% of our country’s power generation uses natural gas as fuel?

    A3 The natural gas contracts are pegged to fuel oil prices. Hence the prices of natural gas will also change accordingly when there is a change in fuel oil prices.

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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunbucker View Post
    I always tell my visiting foreigner colleagues that Singapore Inc. has two faces to it:

    One is the external facing Singapore Inc like Changi Airport, PSA, etc, with world-class standards and continually aspire to be the best.

    The other is the internal facing Singapore Inc like SMRT, SP, etc, that, well, have entirely different "aspirations" (or lack there of)

    Reality is our country's too small for multiple utilities providers. So their word (or price) is law. Suck it up, and cough it up.


    Hmm.. so what if we have multiple utilities providers? In the end, the two or few will just monopolise together and eat us up?

    For eg,

    Singtel Mio TV and Starhub CableTV (Just read news today that both of them had submitted to bid for the EPL, looks like the sports channel prices going up again..)

    I am not too sure about this other example. SMRT and SBS Transit. (do we ever see the prices go down or even stay the same because of competition?)
    Last edited by hongwen37; 30th September 2009 at 02:04 PM.

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    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    it is done sometimes, to show trends between two values over time..

    as to why sp does this, i think part of the price index is pegged to oil price.

    i guess, if you want to show a more direct relationship, you could make the right scale more differentiated..
    oic, so I guess can ignore the Low Tension Tariff graph lah

    ../azul123

  10. #10

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    oic, so I guess can ignore the Low Tension Tariff graph lah

    ../azul123
    hrm, i'm not sure.. i just grabbed it off sp's newest release on their website.

    the blue graph is the tariff (i.e. electricity price, what consumers pay).. pink graph is the fuel oil price (a 3 month forward)..

    in short, sp is supposed to base its tariffs on fuel oil price. so that graph seeks to show the ups and downs being linked to the 3 month forward price.. that's all.

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    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    it is done sometimes, to show trends between two values over time..
    so if someone is to convert it to cents/kwday, it would appear a different story altogether?

    ../azul123

  12. #12

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    so if someone is to convert it to cents/kwday, it would appear a different story altogether?

    ../azul123
    bro, sometimes, two different values, you can't convert to same units la..

    anyways, even if let's say can, the graph up and down will be the same, if you use an appropriate scale that produces the same shape..

    since conversion involves linear movement mar..

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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    i dun think our power plant uses crude oil to generate electricity, so i dunno why increase in crude oil increases the tariff...

    if natural gas is pegged to crude oil , why is it so ? its a different source of energy all together... the supply and demand is totally different...

    if there is an increase in natural gas, shouldn'd the chart show the prices of natural gas to reflect the relationship to the tariff charges and not oil ?
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    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    bro, sometimes, two different values, you can't convert to same units la..

    anyways, even if let's say can, the graph up and down will be the same, if you use an appropriate scale that produces the same shape..

    since conversion involves linear movement mar..
    oic...

    But it will appear that the blue graph is much higher than pink one, right? since they are different units altogether, I see no correlation between the 2 except they are pegged against it other, this does not make it that the price we pay acceptable just that it goes up and down with price of oil.

    ../azul123

  15. #15

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpot View Post

    if natural gas is pegged to crude oil , why is it so ? its a different source of energy all together... the supply and demand is totally different...
    i always wanted to know, might as well find out now why..

    source

    In contrast to LNG imported to North America, where the price is pegged, most of the LNG imported to Asia is pegged to crude oil prices by a formula consisting of indexation called the Japan Crude Cocktail (JCC). The pricing structure that has been widely used in Asian LNG SPAs is as follows: PLNG = A+B×Pcrude oil, where A refers to a term that represents various non-oil factors, but usually a constant determined by negotiation at a level that can prevent LNG prices from falling below a certain level. It thus varies regardless of oil price fluctuation.

  16. #16

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post

    it goes up and down with price of oil.

    ../azul123
    well, yes, that was what i was trying to say..

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    Member iMac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    This one also damn kelong also...i have been paying my bill and consistently it is hitting 100-150(usage more or less the same)..there was one month in august it went to 40 bucks...i was damn shock...i ask my wife did we not shower for 1 month or sthg....

    on paper up 12.5%...reality who knows...

  18. #18
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    well, yes, that was what i was trying to say..
    So if I plan to start a Power utility company and if I set my pricing right, the higher the price of oil the higher my income will be. Hmmm... who to regulate what price I can set?

    ../azul123

  19. #19

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by iMac08 View Post
    This one also damn kelong also...i have been paying my bill and consistently it is hitting 100-150(usage more or less the same)..there was one month in august it went to 40 bucks...i was damn shock...i ask my wife did we not shower for 1 month or sthg....

    on paper up 12.5%...reality who knows...

    bro, this is power supply.. nothing to do with shower!


  20. #20

    Default Re: POWER SUPPLY INCREASE by 12.5% (oct 09)

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    So if I plan to start a Power utility company and if I set my pricing right, the higher the price of oil the higher my income will be. Hmmm... who to regulate what price I can set?

    ../azul123
    actually, sp doesn't decide the price, ema does.. i think.

    anyways, if you are a power utility company in singapore, i think it would be hard for you to control oil price...

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