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Thread: F1 shooting guide

  1. #21

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by lightning View Post
    not sure about you....but I think the fence in your pics are very distracting. Why do you continue to shoot at this location? Since you have access to grandstand why don't you explore different position. The pics are mostly OOF due to the fence. Like what evenstar mention, it is better to practice at the road side then to go to F1 and not achieving much. I think even with those harsh comments, if you read them carefully there might be something you can learn.
    You know Victor i actually loved some of your pics, but i didnt expect you to be so mean...

    Thank you for blatantly putting my pictures down by saying, "it is better to practice at the road side then to go to F1 and not achieving much." I did not go to the event with the intention to achieve anything... I was asked last minute to go because a friend could not make it and brought my camera as another friend wanted to compare with his point-and-shoot...

    I couldnt really explore the grandstand because if i went any higher to avoid the fence, what shots do u expect me to pull off??? Unlike you, I only have a 50mm currently and was only trying to make the best use of the equipment on hand...

    I think the fence is distracting too thats why i ask for advice on how to shoot... If you search the forums, there are many people who shoot infront of the fence but somehow manage to blur it out enough while still keeping the car in focus... That's what i also would like to understand...

    I can shoot with my 50mm on the roadside and achieve decent pictures, but then again there is no fence infront of me... So going to the f1 provided a very different and novel experience hence i was hoping some of the pros could give a few pointers instead of generic and discouraging retorts...

    cheers!
    Last edited by suicyde240; 29th September 2009 at 12:59 AM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    If you read the other F1 threads, yes, it's much better to prefocus on a spot and pan.
    Hmmm i should try that, never actually done that before! Thank you Rashkae!

    Quote Originally Posted by VeerloN View Post
    Here's mine from turn 2.



    ISO800, 1/200, 1D3, 70-200 IS @ 200mm

    Go Hamilton! :P
    Haha yeah!!! Lewis Hamilton FTW!!! Love the pic!!!!

  3. #23

    Question Re: F1 shooting guide

    Dear Senior Shooters

    I agree with most of the postings that learning the settings doesnt really matter in the shoot and that you have to be there to get trying over and over till one finds his style.

    It is not what you answer, but, how you answers to noob questions.

    I am sure suicyde40 tried many things before posting the question here. Some apathy and compassion in your answers would be nice.

    We are not in the army here, are we?

    Thanks

  4. #24

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by hotlglazier View Post
    Dear Senior Shooters

    I agree with most of the postings that learning the settings doesnt really matter in the shoot and that you have to be there to get trying over and over till one finds his style.

    It is not what you answer, but, how you answers to noob questions.

    I am sure suicyde40 tried many things before posting the question here. Some apathy and compassion in your answers would be nice.

    We are not in the army here, are we?

    Thanks
    Thank you

    I do just wish sometimes they would be more understanding...

  5. #25
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by suicyde240 View Post
    I love how some people on this forum just love to make SWEEPING ASSUMPTIONS! Maybe their seniority in the forum makes them forget where they once started or maybe they are just too damn good at photography to lend a f***ing hand to someone in need...

    No Evenstar, you are wrong... I am not just sitting at my comp, i did go out and shoot... But my purpose of this thread is so i can refine my skills... I dont want to share my pics because i don't feel they are good enough yet, but since you love to assume, maybe i should upload my pics to show you that unlike you i don't just sit at my comp and give my 2 dollars worth of unconstructive and snide comments...
    how do you fit into the category of "someone in need"?
    you don't open a thread to refine your skills. you go behind your camera and play around with the settings and practice more. that's how many, if not most people refine their photography skills and develop their own styles.
    you might also want to read up on different types of panning, when to press the shutter button and other information. (e.g. what range of shutter speeds do you use to shoot a panning shot of a F1 car, vs shutter speed of shooting a 100m runner, etc)


    Any tips?
    yes, you need more practice. especially on composition.
    eat. drink. shoot

  6. #26
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by hotlglazier View Post
    Dear Senior Shooters

    I agree with most of the postings that learning the settings doesnt really matter in the shoot and that you have to be there to get trying over and over till one finds his style.

    It is not what you answer, but, how you answers to noob questions.

    I am sure suicyde40 tried many things before posting the question here. Some apathy and compassion in your answers would be nice.

    We are not in the army here, are we?

    Thanks
    new account just for this?
    eat. drink. shoot

  7. #27

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    To be a bit more realistic: Do you understand the basics of exposure first? You do realize that the option of pan/don't pan or how fast a shutter speed you need to use, etc etc will depend a LOT on:

    1. The lens you use
    2. How far away from the track are you
    3. How fast are the cars going at that point
    4. What angle are you relative to the track
    5. What effect are you going for
    6. How good is your skill

    There is absolutely no magic formula. Every picture will have such different settings that it will just confuse you.

    For example, some may say you need to use ISO 800, 1600 or 3200. You need to use at least 1/250s or 1/500s etc etc

    But I used ISO 400 and 1/90s and have razor-sharp panning shots. Why? Because my 6 factors are different from theirs.

    Your answers are spot-on. so many variables.

    Ask your govt to build a proper race track and hold events there monthly. Nothing beats practice and practice. To get great shots at night is tough, and the city circuit with fence and low spectators gallery is impossible for paying spectators to shoot properly. Good spots are 'booked' hours before the race.

  8. #28

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by +evenstar View Post
    new account just for this?
    ..and you replied, just to ask me this?

    i am sure you know the answer to your question.

  9. #29

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by +evenstar View Post
    new account just for this?
    Haha dont worry i am not so boh liao la... DON'T ASSUME!

    Yes going out and shoot will let you refine your skills, but getting someone to point you in the right direction because they are more experienced will also aid you? no?

    Sigh, Evenstar if you have nth good to say then why bother posting here? Bored ah?

    Or wanna open ur big mouth to show how pro u are?

    Either way get a life... Seriously

    Nobody forced you to post here you know?
    Last edited by suicyde240; 29th September 2009 at 01:18 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by chenws View Post
    Your answers are spot-on. so many variables.

    Ask your govt to build a proper race track and hold events there monthly. Nothing beats practice and practice.
    there's something known as the highway, and the road. there's no need to be at a race just to practice.

    To get great shots at night is tough, and the city circuit with fence and low spectators gallery is impossible for paying spectators to shoot properly. Good spots are 'booked' hours before the race.
    if one is serious about photography, he/she would be there early to book a spot as well.
    eat. drink. shoot

  11. #31
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by suicyde240 View Post
    Haha dont worry i am not so boh liao la... DON'T ASSUME!

    Yes going out and shoot will let you refine your skills, but getting someone to point you in the right direction because they are more experienced will also aid you? no?

    Sigh, Evenstar if you have nth good to say then why bother posting here? Bored ah?

    Or wanna open ur big mouth to show how pro u are?

    Either way get a life... Seriously

    Nobody forced you to post here you know?
    i've never once said that i'm a pro. you merely assumed.

    you started your thread with the purpose of wanting people to spoonfeed you with answers. a 5s search on google which i did came out with a long list of threads with tips on how to do panning shots. have you tried that?
    eat. drink. shoot

  12. #32
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by hotlglazier View Post
    Some apathy and compassion in your answers would be nice.
    Apathy and compassion .. mind to explain how that works together?
    EOS

  13. #33
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by suicyde240 View Post
    It was shot with a 450D, 50mm f/1.8 and i used shutter priority mode... Bumped up the iso and exposure a bit but can't rmb exactly how much right now...
    You just need to check your exif data to see all details. Even your uploaded files still contain most information.
    I am wondering if it'd be better if i used manual focus instead of a countinous autofocus while panning?
    Many other threads have mentioned the manual pre-focusing on a certain spot. Your 450D has only one cross-type AF sensor in the center which only works with lenses of f/2.8 or faster. That's not enough to safely track an object like a F1 car during panning. As you can see the resulting aperture also varies, check with a DOF calculator whether the DOF with f/2 at the distance given is still sufficient.
    Critique is like medicine: the bitter one is the best. Learn to swallow such pills without barking at the person behind. So far you got already plenty of tips for the next F1. Now use the time to practice as recommended. No settings can replace this.
    EOS

  14. #34

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    I see that all these advice (and yes, they're really constructive advice if you care to look at where and why we say the things we do) is still not getting through.

    If you think that camera settings and equipment automatically = replicating the shot, then good luck!

    If you REALLY still believe that this is ANY help at all....


    1/125 f/11 ISO800 @ 250mm


    1/80 f/13 ISO800 @ 183mm

    Canon EOS 500D with el-cheepo 55-250IS.

    How does this help? Does the pic tell you how/when/where/why I took the shot? It only shows you what's on the camera.
    Well, bookmark or save these settings then and wait for next year September if you want.

    Btw, you brought your camera cos your friend wanted to compare how the shots were compared to PnS? FWIW, I've seen PnS do very decent F1 panning shots as well - so it's never always about the equipment. If you don't have the technique down pat, you're screwed no matter if you are using a PnS or a 5D.

  15. #35

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Sivakis View Post
    FWIW, I've seen PnS do very decent F1 panning shots as well - so it's never always about the equipment. If you don't have the technique down pat, you're screwed no matter if you are using a PnS or a 5D.
    Well compared to a PnS vs a 5D, your life is made easier when using a DSLR because most PnS have a bad shutter lag time.



    To the TS, did you attend any of those F1 seminars that were held by Darren Heath or Paul Henri Cahier? Did you realise most of their settings were rather standard? Esp for Paul Henri Cahier, he shot most panning shots at ISO400 because of slow shutter speed and smaller apperature, and close up shots at ISO1600 because he was using a very fast shutter speed of 1/500sec from his 600mm lens.

    In my opinion, it would be tough if suddenly you were called in to shoot f1 without any prior knowledge of motorsports photography. Trying to shoot F1 with the 50mm f/1.8 is a tough task, because of the following factors:

    • The chicken fence is only able to blur slightly at 135mm, with good blurring at 200mm and beyond, provided you get as close to the fence as possible, but within limits of what a spectator can do.

    • 50mm f/1.8 is a slow lens, meaning if you want to use AI servo to track these cars, the focusing mechanism is unable to keep up. You need at least a lens with USM.


    Look for the following well achieve F1 accredited photographers, they have very good pictures which should give you an idea about composition.

    Rainer Schlegelmilch found at http://www.schlegelmilch.com/New/
    Various photogs (like Steven Tee) at Lat Photographic http://www.latphoto.co.uk/
    Darren Heath at http://www.darrenheath.com/
    Paul Henri Cahier at http://www.f1-photo.com/

    And don't forget to buy a copy of F1 Racing monthly. They feature about 3 photographs a month by well achieved photographers. And most photos have a story to tell too.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    I think get a 70-200mmF2.8L might be useful. For primes, unless you are the official F1 photographer you will have better access for the shoot.

  17. #37

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by suicyde240 View Post
    You know Victor i actually loved some of your pics, but i didnt expect you to be so mean...

    Thank you for blatantly putting my pictures down by saying, "it is better to practice at the road side then to go to F1 and not achieving much." I did not go to the event with the intention to achieve anything... I was asked last minute to go because a friend could not make it and brought my camera as another friend wanted to compare with his point-and-shoot...

    I couldnt really explore the grandstand because if i went any higher to avoid the fence, what shots do u expect me to pull off??? Unlike you, I only have a 50mm currently and was only trying to make the best use of the equipment on hand...

    I think the fence is distracting too thats why i ask for advice on how to shoot... If you search the forums, there are many people who shoot infront of the fence but somehow manage to blur it out enough while still keeping the car in focus... That's what i also would like to understand...

    I can shoot with my 50mm on the roadside and achieve decent pictures, but then again there is no fence infront of me... So going to the f1 provided a very different and novel experience hence i was hoping some of the pros could give a few pointers instead of generic and discouraging retorts...

    cheers!
    You need the right tool for the right job. You do not have to buy, you can always rent or borrow. Frankly, with a 50mm F1.8 for F1 is like using a spoon to dig a swimming pool.
    That is the reason why I say you might achieve much more shoot by the road side and feel more satisfied with the result with the tool that you have.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    If shooting roadside taxies not challenging or too boring, can always head for the Go-Kart. They are slower and provides a constant flow at predetermined path to make your learning easier.


    I'm not a pro but I learn through at least 100k shutter counts to horne my skills and will need another few million shutter counts to be a pro. Panning is a skill you need to pratice. your movement must match the car's speed to achieve sharpness on the car but blur on the BG. What settings we use will varies. Lighting condition, car speed, your panning angle etcs etcs...... For me I prefer to use manual settings and get some test shots to check the exposure. I use AI-servo mode with only one point focusing. This is not the magic formula but only my preference.

    Note: Sometimes when learning you have to eat humble pie so that ppl will teach you more.

  19. #39

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    Panning is a skill you need to pratice. your movement must match the car's speed to achieve sharpness on the car but blur on the BG. What settings we use will varies. Lighting condition, car speed, your panning angle etcs etcs...... For me I prefer to use manual settings and get some test shots to check the exposure. I use AI-servo mode with only one point focusing. This is not the magic formula but only my preference.

    Note: Sometimes when learning you have to eat humble pie so that ppl will teach you more.
    Yes i agree with this. Else anyone who can buy the most expensive lens, camera body can do the same job like the official photographers who have years of experience. Panning is a skill that you have to try on your own before you can get it right. If you aren't getting it right go back and review your technique.

    Fast lens, AI servo and a very good eye of where your racing line will be is often useful.

  20. #40

    Default Re: F1 shooting guide

    Quote Originally Posted by lioneldude View Post
    Yes i agree with this. Else anyone who can buy the most expensive lens, camera body can do the same job like the official photographers who have years of experience. Panning is a skill that you have to try on your own before you can get it right. If you aren't getting it right go back and review your technique.

    Fast lens, AI servo and a very good eye of where your racing line will be is often useful.

    Yo lioneldude, same lionel from the f1sg forum?

    But yeah. The problem is... fast lens, AI servo, as lionel carefully mentioned is "useful" but not mandatory.

    Why? Cos even at f11/f22, you can blur the background since panning deliberately does that, although not in the bokeh way that so many are familiar with.

    AI Servo? Great if you are using AF and tracking for panning. Useless if you are using MF.

    So yes, useful if you are starting out but not a must.

    So TS, confused already?

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