View Poll Results: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce? What will be an ideal situation fo

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  • HDB prices to maintain at the existing level

    7 16.28%
  • HDB prices to decrease by 20% or lesser

    6 13.95%
  • HDB prices to decrease by more than 20%

    13 30.23%
  • HDB prices to increase by up to 20%

    10 23.26%
  • HDB prices to increase by more than 20%

    7 16.28%
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Thread: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

  1. #61

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpenza View Post
    It does depend on the situation Someone who want to buy one would want the prices to fall, while those that want to "upgrade" to a private, will want it to rise. On a broader scale, HDB flats are the most valuable assets of most Singaporeans and we won't want our assets to lose value.
    hmm dnt forget that if the HDB price keep goin up that mean that the private also will.
    its a gd thing that HDB flats are under the control of the government, so no matter what happen, its value would still remain about the same ????
    D.S.L.R

  2. #62

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    perhaps so ... but is there an alternative ?
    you can always pull the trigger and choose to exit the system and migrate
    i think it's a borderless problem

  3. #63

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by tenchimuyo View Post
    hmm dnt forget that if the HDB price keep goin up that mean that the private also will.
    its a gd thing that HDB flats are under the control of the government, so no matter what happen, its value would still remain about the same ????
    hey, facts coming out? whatever happens to free market?

  4. #64

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I guess she will be staying with you until the day you die too.
    that sounds wonderful to me

  5. #65

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    i think it's a borderless problem
    no lah, if you listen to other people, it is a government policy problem. Obviously, it only exist in singapore.

  6. #66
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    no lah, if you listen to other people, it is a government policy problem. Obviously, it only exist in singapore.

    Yup.... because they think 'Nothing Is Ever Right' in S'pore.

    I'm still waiting for a posts, where someone would lead by example.... like claiming he/she has sell his/her house below market price and/or not ask for any COV... because they think the price of houses in S'pore is too high and is doing their part to make houses affordable for their 'Children'.

    But I've yet to see any such post.... even those 'True Believers' who believed that the system is not working, don't mind SELLING at market price, making FULL use of the same system.... even thought they are against the very system that ensure their flats would increase in value if they planned properly before buying.

    So... where are those that can Talk The Talk.... and yet Walk The Walk

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  7. #67

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    hey, facts coming out? whatever happens to free market?
    There is no such thing as free market in Singapore. Think about it.

    Look at what happened to US.

  8. #68
    Member iMac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Yup.... because they think 'Nothing Is Ever Right' in S'pore.

    I'm still waiting for a posts, where someone would lead by example.... like claiming he/she has sell his/her house below market price and/or not ask for any COV... because they think the price of houses in S'pore is too high and is doing their part to make houses affordable for their 'Children'.

    But I've yet to see any such post.... even those 'True Believers' who believed that the system is not working, don't mind SELLING at market price, making FULL use of the same system.... even thought they are against the very system that ensure their flats would increase in value if they planned properly before buying.

    So... where are those that can Talk The Talk.... and yet Walk The Walk
    i totally agree with you and yet cannot comply...is real hard dude. i paid half a mil for a HDB flat. i agreee it is bad...but to sell at under value? who am i to absorb the interest incur and the lost

  9. #69

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Yup.... because they think 'Nothing Is Ever Right' in S'pore.

    I'm still waiting for a posts, where someone would lead by example.... like claiming he/she has sell his/her house below market price and/or not ask for any COV... because they think the price of houses in S'pore is too high and is doing their part to make houses affordable for their 'Children'.
    Well, no system in the world is perfect. Singapore system do have its strength and weaknesses as compared to other countries.

    However, when one perceived/believed that something is not correct, I strongly believe that it is important as a citizen to voice out the concern even though others might disagreed.

  10. #70
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    Well, no system in the world is perfect. Singapore system do have its strength and weaknesses as compared to other countries.

    However, when one perceived/believed that something is not correct, I strongly believe that it is important as a citizen to voice out the concern even though others might disagreed.

    You have my total Agreement on this....

    But just a little reminder to those who felt 'Overly Righteous' about this and other similar issue.... "Let He Who Is Without Sin, Cast The 1st Stone".... or if you prefer, from MTV - "If You Are Not Part Of The Solution, Then You Are Part Of The Problem".
    Last edited by diver-hloc; 24th September 2009 at 11:12 AM.

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  11. #71
    Member iMac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    i agree..but even after voice up..prices still up.....even though i bought my unit high...i also wish the bubble burst.....burst so that everything can normalise. and then i also can buy cheap again....heehee...i believe this is what most ppl waiting for the bubble to burst are waiting.

  12. #72

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by iMac08 View Post
    i agree..but even after voice up..prices still up.....even though i bought my unit high...i also wish the bubble burst.....burst so that everything can normalise. and then i also can buy cheap again....heehee...i believe this is what most ppl waiting for the bubble to burst are waiting.
    I am more worried about living cost and whether I can still retire early or I've to work until 60 and beyond or there is still available job for me. How sad, isn't it?

    I do not wish to see my hard earned money devalued because of hyper inflated inflation.
    Don't you guys see it, it is coming again.

    Maybe we can consider retiring in Malaysia or some other places where the living standard is much lower and life is not that fast pace.
    Last edited by scanner; 24th September 2009 at 12:18 PM.

  13. #73
    Member iMac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    I am more worried about living cost and whether I can still retire early or I've to work until 60 or beyond. How sad, isn't it?

    I do not wish to see my hard earned money devalued because of hyper inflated inflation.
    Don't you guys see it, it is coming again.

    Maybe we can consider retiring in Malaysia or some other places where the living standard is much lower and life is not that fast pace.
    u are right. our parents time best. now..i feel that u can never buy enough insurance to feel secure.damn insurance also not cheap leh...

    but i will never retire in malaysia for sure. no offense but don't feel safe with so much news..i don't want to kanna headshot when i go top up petrol or kanna 'beehive' wounds at home while watching TV.

  14. #74
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    I am more worried about living cost and whether I can still retire early or I've to work until 60 and beyond or there is still available job for me. How sad, isn't it?

    I do not wish to see my hard earned money devalued because of hyper inflated inflation.
    Don't you guys see it, it is coming again.

    Maybe we can consider retiring in Malaysia or some other places where the living standard is much lower and life is not that fast pace.

    I'm thinking more of Thailand.... less History of Misunderstanding between people & Govt.

    And the fact that Thai are mostly Buddist... and there is less risk that I would need to convert.... or change my diet

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  15. #75

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Hope I can contribute to this topic. The intent is not to change your perspectives but share you what the situation is with a different lens.

    There's is a misconception that buying HDB flat is an investment and it could be passed on to the children. This is true and false. It is true that the value of the flat at the point it is sold is transferrable; however, it is not an investment. HDB flats comes with a 99 years lease (meaning the state will recover the property at no cost after this period). This means the useful lifespan of a HDB flat is capped at 99 years regardless of the amount paid at purchase or the appreciation occured to the property.

    (http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10201p....enu=Procedures)

    In general, prices of HDB flats stabilises around a third of its useful lifespan in the 30th year. Afterinwhich, price fluccuations becomes relatively stable compared to the earlier years. At this point, major renovations and upgrading are required to the estate to maintain it's value as it now falls behind the newer estates with mordern facilities and network infrastructure. The cost of rejunvenating of the flats are passed on to buyers and sellers in the market.

    That said, HDB flats do not perpetuate in appreciation. Appreciation stops a third into their useful lifespan. To expect the flats to go into perpetual appreciation is the equivalent of trying to present a normal goods as a superior goods in the economics sense. However, this representation is fallacious as HDB flats with its useful lifespan and unattractive aging population in the estate is contradictory to the criteria of being a superior goods.

    The reason why HDB flats are seen as an investment to many in Singapore is because their retirement funds invested could not keep up with the escalating cost of living. So properties became an alternative although it is unconceivable how a non movable fixed asset can be viewed as a disposable liquidity.

    The continual open door policy of foreign talents helps to drive demands for housing which in effect keeps the prices afloat. However, foreign talents seldom own properties and that they rent instead of buy. So this drives another sector of investors who buy properties for the sole purpose of renting it out. The impact of this is that market demand in this situation becomes unclear as investors speculate what tenants are willing to pay rather than having bona fide buyers going into the buying process and influence the supply prices.

    (An Autralian example: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/im...0925-4nvj.html)
    (The UK example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006...ss.buyingtolet)

    Someone mentioned that singapore operates the same in the property market as in bigger cities like Tokyo, New York or London. Compared to these cities, Singapore has no internal alternatives in landspace. Bigger countries like Japan, United States and United Kingdom has much more flex in determining housing as well as office space. If a business finds central New York too expensive, it can move to other areas or states. The same cannot be said in Singapore. So if alternatives and substitues are not available here compared to these cities, how do we compare our property policies and strategies to them? The onus in Singapore is on the provider or supplier of space and they are the ones who control the market.

    However, playing the supply and demand game is a delicate feat that can prove disastrous if it is mismanaged or unexpected economic events occcur (eg. Bank busts, Our retirement funds got wiped out by half through bad investments, mass relocation of the the rich and wealthy, etc.)

    So are we a generally a rich bunch of people who can afford to pay any stated market prices? Yes and no. Affordability in it's strictest sense if your ability to service a loan for a purchase as well as pay up a transaction. However, the term affordability seldom or never take into account future risks involved such as you are unable to service the loan mid-way due to unemployment or unforeseen financial difficulties. Another phenomenon to take into account is that the mojority of wealth in most countries are held by that few percentages of individuals as well as families. In general, most of us (household) cannot afford a flat with the current average national income levels in anything more than SGD 300K and it should be serviced or paid up within 7 to 10 years. The fact that we still manage to hold on to most of our properties (that doesn't mean that there aren't as many who loses theirs) in HDB is due to timely governmental interventions and incentives such as grants, delayed loan service schemes and recession perks. But these policies do not change that fact that on the basis of economics, at the current rate, properties are becoming unaffordable or has already become.

    Another comment that Singapore is generally a rich bunch need a further indepth research. Accoding to a report, the world's richest 1% own 40% of all wealth. If the median is stable, we can assimilate that it is close or similar to our country. Half of our country's wealth are in the hands of that few percentages of elite. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006...ernationalnews)

    That said, if you ask me whether a bust will happen?

    Yes it will and it is inevitable. Consider the years of top gear progress and overdrive, what would a little bust compared to. The only thing one should expect is the magnitude of a property bubble and how policies can be set to control or mitigate some of the damages caused by a bust.

    When will it happen?

    Your guess is better than mine. Given the rate it is heading, I am expecting one within 7 years from now.
    Last edited by eyes; 24th September 2009 at 12:51 PM.
    Tum podem extulit horridulum...日出東方﹐唯我不敗。

  16. #76

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by iMac08 View Post
    ....burst so that everything can normalise. and then i also can buy cheap again....heehee...i believe this is what most ppl waiting for the bubble to burst are waiting.
    Property market is always laggard. It takes at least 8-12 months, sometimes even longer for the property market to catch up with the real economy.If the bubble is to burst in Singapore, things will be so bad in the real economy - there will be hardly any business for the MNC and SMEs, there will be high unemployment, people will be dipping into their savings for survival. Government may even take drastic measure of retrenchment or pay cut for civil servants. People with property will be trying to liquidate but there will be few to no buyers. Banks will be forced to foreclose adding to the supply problem.

    What was once valued at 500k, will now be valued at significant less, maybe even half. How many of you guys calling for a crash have finished paying your housing loan ? When the value is half, u think u wont be asked to top up ? If it is indeed half and u have 400k loan outstanding, and the value is only 250k, then be prepared to cough up 150k cash to top up or u can say goodbye to the roof over your head. You will be considered damn lucky if u still have a job or a business or not to be asked to help your parents /brother/ sister / uncle / auntie financially.
    Last edited by zero o; 24th September 2009 at 01:06 PM.

  17. #77
    Member iMac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    i agree it is a laggard traditionally from stock market. since the crisis,the property did not really took a major correction. even a property agent friend told me is crazy. how can things be back to the peak if not higher now. and as for me. i still stay in HDB. because i think private property is just too crazy to even touch it now lest u have loads of ammo to burn.As much as i feel certain things the Gahment did is not really right,but HDB and CPF loans/payment is really the next safest bet for now.

    for now...got job better take,got money better earn and save/invest wisely.i am not too worry abt my HDB since it is in a good area.it shld be able to weather the storm over time. for the record i choose not to drive because i think it is pointless and instead channel my cashflow towards a better housing area.

    this is purely my own view and belief. no one others to believe in me. pls dun flame me...life is short...let's have more friends than enemies

  18. #78

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    Maybe we can consider retiring in Malaysia .....
    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    I'm thinking more of Thailand....

    Or pool our resources and buy an island somewhere ... Philippines , Indonesia .....

  19. #79
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by iMac08 View Post
    i agree it is a laggard traditionally from stock market. since the crisis,the property did not really took a major correction. even a property agent friend told me is crazy. how can things be back to the peak if not higher now. and as for me. i still stay in HDB. because i think private property is just too crazy to even touch it now lest u have loads of ammo to burn.As much as i feel certain things the Gahment did is not really right,but HDB and CPF loans/payment is really the next safest bet for now.

    for now...got job better take,got money better earn and save/invest wisely.i am not too worry abt my HDB since it is in a good area.it shld be able to weather the storm over time. for the record i choose not to drive because i think it is pointless and instead channel my cashflow towards a better housing area.

    this is purely my own view and belief. no one others to believe in me. pls dun flame me...life is short...let's have more friends than enemies

    But may I ask.... whats so bad/wrong/unsuitable is your Area of Housing now.... that you are planning to -

    towards a better housing area
    Need more space for the family ??

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  20. #80
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Or pool our resources and buy an island somewhere ... Philippines , Indonesia .....
    Philippines..... Northern part. Must have good scuba diving all year round...

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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