View Poll Results: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce? What will be an ideal situation fo

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • HDB prices to maintain at the existing level

    7 16.28%
  • HDB prices to decrease by 20% or lesser

    6 13.95%
  • HDB prices to decrease by more than 20%

    13 30.23%
  • HDB prices to increase by up to 20%

    10 23.26%
  • HDB prices to increase by more than 20%

    7 16.28%
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 111

Thread: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

  1. #41

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    .. government may look at modifying the present system to contain the rapidly escalating prices, but they will not risk depressing the market that will affect the majority of Singaporeans.

    Historically, people who have committed to property have enjoyed the appreciation of their investments. ..
    ...hmmm, investment /= speculation? government's recent cooling measures are targetted at flippers=speculators, so 'real investors' are better positioned to make such sustainable purchases? Though I know many involved speculating on private properties, I'm sure they're people speculating HDBs, no? so what are these 'real investors" classfied as? people with means to 'invest'? People who can hold on to their property longer? (what is longer?), people who bought and live in it? (though you ought to do so if you bought a HDB, I'm sure there're workarounds on this despite some restrictions). So weeding out 'speculators' will drive prices down? But they won't go back to the 1990s' price right? Just to frank, there's some difference between private and public property investment, but other than the government's measure is to prevent a property bubble, like I said earlier, sub-prime SG style, what's else is there to it? What is the right price (not low price) for one to consider buying an HDB, or a property?

  2. #42
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Nope, I respectfully agree that your point is proved by the contrary result that if prices are artificially depressed, market price is still the market.

    If the govt and SBS decides to raise bus fares to S$10, 10 is now market price notwithstanding the fact that it is inflated. Taxi fares will rise accordingly (lets say S$25) because no idiot is going to drive a taxi for S$5 when a bus (considered lower end) is S$10. Hence, if I come up with a taxi service, I'll price it at S$25, notwithstanding the fact that I believe that the bus fares are artificially inflated and overpriced and propping up the taxi prices artificially.

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    No 'effect' is needed.....

    Just to proof that no one would want to sell below Market price.... even if they, in principle, is not agreeing to any price hike.... be it 'artificial inflation' or not.

  3. #43
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Yup, unfortunately, the problem now is way too out of hand to correct anymore; reduce will no longer work; maybe slow down rise can work; ie instead of always pricing to the latest resale -X%, where X is fixed, slowly increase the amount of X until prices resstablise again; but then again; I'm not paid millions to come up with the solution.

    ITs the same as the stop at two policy gone bad; that has gone way too bad for rectification now; so whats the solution? FOreign workers. That will also be a timebomb in the making.

    These policies were created to make more and more money; with the policy makers cashing out before the timebomb explodes; ala the banks style.

    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    sounds like a sub prime problem to me, SG style
    Last edited by vince123123; 23rd September 2009 at 12:22 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    ...hmmm, investment /= speculation? government's recent cooling measures are targetted at flippers=speculators, so 'real investors' are better positioned to make such sustainable purchases? Though I know many involved speculating on private properties, I'm sure they're people speculating HDBs, no? so what are these 'real investors" classfied as? people with means to 'invest'? People who can hold on to their property longer? (what is longer?), people who bought and live in it? (though you ought to do so if you bought a HDB, I'm sure there're workarounds on this despite some restrictions). So weeding out 'speculators' will drive prices down? But they won't go back to the 1990s' price right? Just to frank, there's some difference between private and public property investment, but other than the government's measure is to prevent a property bubble, like I said earlier, sub-prime SG style, what's else is there to it? What is the right price (not low price) for one to consider buying an HDB, or a property?

    Loosely, an investment is defined as something that will appreciate over time. It is generally accepted that property is something that can be considered as an investment, so when one buys his first property, whether to live in or rent out, I would call that an investment. And this is proven true historically because a HDB flat bot in the 80's or the 90's have appreciated in value.

    When u talk about sub-prime, u must understand how the sub-prime crisis in the US came about. It would also be best to know the underlying causes of sub-prime phenomenon .. how do people get classified as sub-primers. Without understanding the mechanics of the sub-prime crisis, it would be difficult to appreciate the differences between that and what is happening in Singapore.

    When u are looking to buy a property, some of the factors to consider are
    a) do i absolutely need a property now
    b) if i wait, what are my options - rent / stay with parents
    c) if i am renting, what is my cash outflow in terms of renting compared to buyin now
    d) if the market too high, is there going to be a correction and how long b4 it takes place and how far down

    there are a lot more factors to consider ... so u really have to do your homework

    historically, i can tell u that prices in most cities all over the world have gone up over the long term despite corrections, so as long as u think u have holding power, it is always a good time to buy
    but i can also tell u that in runaway market situations, like in japan for instance, when the market collapses, it will take a super long time for it to go back up .. which i dont think the japanese market have done at all (but i could be wrong)
    Last edited by zero o; 23rd September 2009 at 01:09 PM.

  5. #45

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Loosely, an investment is defined as ...
    you haven't said anything about the difference between investor & speculators?

    When u talk about sub-prime, .. it would be difficult to appreciate the differences between that and what is happening in Singapore.
    I guess it wouldn't be fair to refer to SG situation as a sub-prime, no, not my original intention, just tounge in cheek on my part, but the 'underlying' risks are the same, you have people who own something beyond their means is pretty similar. With lower interest rate and Interest Absorption Scheme, pay nothing til TOP is no different from encouraging someone to take up cheap loans to buy their properties which they have no sustainable means to own and fully paid up, whether they buy it for 'investment' or 'speculation' reasons do not change the fact a bubble would be in the making, no?

    historically, i can tell u that prices in most cities all over the world have gone up over the long term despite corrections, so as long as u think u have holding power, it is always a good time to buy..
    this I agree and my guiding principle in such investments I practice for the past 22 years

  6. #46

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    you haven't said anything about the difference between investor & speculators?


    Hahaha .. going by your grasping of stuff like interest absorption scheme and low interest rates as part driver for the present situation in the property market, as well as the fact that you have been guided in part by the ability to hold as a principle in long term investments for the past 22 years - surely you dont need me to explain speculation vs investment

    Like what they say .. can take profit, take profit la .. cannot take profit then consider as long term investment

    As to a bubble in the making, i would say that yes, there is a possibility, but i also think that the present run up in property prices, especially private is fueled by people who have money tucked away, who are merely taking advantage of stuff like low interest rate and interest absortion scheme to leverage their purchases. There are also speculators who have made money in the past who are ploughing back their profits into new purchases. I also have to acknowledge that there are also risk takers who are leveraging up their their eyeballs to try and emulate those who have made money, but i would think that the last group is small in comparison to the other 2 groups.

    Short version - going by the number of new cars on the roads, the record breaking expenditure @ COMEX / PC shows as well as NATAS travel fair, Singaporeans have deeper pockets than we all think. Look at these threads on property prices, other than the few active participants, the bulk of CS members have kept quiet, so i would assume that many are sitting pretty and any escalation in property prices will only benefit them

  7. #47

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Hahaha .. going by your grasping of stuff like interest absorption scheme and low interest rates as part driver for the present situation in the property market, as well as the fact that you have been guided in part by the ability to hold as a principle in long term investments for the past 22 years - surely you dont need me to explain speculation vs investment
    ok, you got me

    Like what they say .. can take profit, take profit la .. cannot take profit then consider as long term investment
    this statement I definitely like.

  8. #48

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Short version - going by the number of new cars on the roads, the record breaking expenditure @ COMEX / PC shows as well as NATAS travel fair, Singaporeans have deeper pockets than we all think. Look at these threads on property prices, other than the few active participants, the bulk of CS members have kept quiet, so i would assume that many are sitting pretty and any escalation in property prices will only benefit them
    Can't agree more.

    Many Singaporeans have made handsome profits from the recent finanical turmoil. Stock market has risen over 1,000 over points from Mar 09 low. Gold has also crossed the 1,000 mark. Oil also risen from US$36 to US$70. Currencies too such as Australia $, British pound, etc. With such hot money on hand, they will in turn translate into consumption of luxury and non-luxury goods. Like what you have quoted the recent COMEX / NATAS, cars sales, etc.

    Practically the impact of recession is just too insignificant.

  9. #49

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Short version - going by the number of new cars on the roads, the record breaking expenditure @ COMEX / PC shows as well as NATAS travel fair, Singaporeans have deeper pockets than we all think. Look at these threads on property prices, other than the few active participants, the bulk of CS members have kept quiet, so i would assume that many are sitting pretty and any escalation in property prices will only benefit them
    Well, I've to agreed, most CS members or rather Singaporean owns HDB which are appreciating in value day by day. They are the one who is laughing, period.

    However, looking at a bigger picture, to illustrate what NineElven had mentioned in his view which can be found here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...&postcount=293, "My concern is as what many are. How can our young afford their 1st home here? So, as a parent, I'm working harder to help them by buying more to invest. Vicious cycle isn't it?"

    Just food for thought.

  10. #50

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by USM View Post
    Can't agree more.

    Many Singaporeans have made handsome profits from the recent finanical turmoil. Stock market has risen over 1,000 over points from Mar 09 low. Gold has also crossed the 1,000 mark. Oil also risen from US$36 to US$70. Currencies too such as Australia $, British pound, etc. With such hot money on hand, they will in turn translate into consumption of luxury and non-luxury goods. Like what you have quoted the recent COMEX / NATAS, cars sales, etc.

    Practically the impact of recession is just too insignificant.
    on the other hand where those who felt the impact of this unusual recession, so were the high number of suicides, unemployment rates, foreclosures, unprecedented number of bankrupcies of individuals and giant financial instituitions, insignificant? hmmm.... I'm puzzled too

  11. #51
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    I guess we have all been brought up in Singapore to be more self centered rather than thinking about the big picture. perhaps even our children count as "others" or too far away to really care. But I suspect most are not even aware of the impact and see the current gains as being good.

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    Well, I've to agreed, most CS members or rather Singaporean owns HDB which are appreciating in value day by day. They are the one who is laughing, period.

    However, looking at a bigger picture, to illustrate what NineElven had mentioned in his view which can be found here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...&postcount=293, "My concern is as what many are. How can our young afford their 1st home here? So, as a parent, I'm working harder to help them by buying more to invest. Vicious cycle isn't it?"

    Just food for thought.

  12. #52

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    on the other hand where those who felt the impact of this unusual recession, so were the high number of suicides, unemployment rates, foreclosures, unprecedented number of bankrupcies of individuals and giant financial instituitions, insignificant? hmmm.... I'm puzzled too
    I don't think that you understand what I meant.

    I am referring to Singapore, and not the rest of thw world.

    Ya, the Americans and others felt it but not Singaporeans.

  13. #53

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I guess we have all been brought up in Singapore to be more self centered rather than thinking about the big picture. perhaps even our children count as "others" or too far away to really care. But I suspect most are not even aware of the impact and see the current gains as being good.
    my child will inherit my property. So rising prices is good for her too.

  14. #54

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    btw, anyone got good bank to recommend if i need a loan? i am getting a flat very soon. since this is my 1st time, i know nut about it....
    Objection !!!

  15. #55

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    Well, I've to agreed, most CS members or rather Singaporean owns HDB which are appreciating in value day by day. They are the one who is laughing, period.

    However, looking at a bigger picture, to illustrate what NineElven had mentioned in his view which can be found here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...&postcount=293, "My concern is as what many are. How can our young afford their 1st home here? So, as a parent, I'm working harder to help them by buying more to invest. Vicious cycle isn't it?"

    Just food for thought.

    Yup ... almost the whole population of Singapore is laughing or at least smiling to the bank by way of the appreciation of their property. Kudos to the home ownership scheme i say.

    As to the next generation ... yes, it is a concern.

    If we think that our kid is going to have a problem with future property ownership, there are 3 things we can do

    1. dont have kid
    2. have kid but let him fend for himself, come what may
    3. do whatever we can today, make sacrifices etc so that your kid can have a leg up as far as property ownership is concerned

    Consider this, the phenomenon of escalating property prices is a necessary evil for any growing economy, especially one that has enjoyed the kind of growth that Singapore has in the past few decades. Singapore is no different from NY, London, HK, Seoul etc. Unless you are prepared to uproot and move away from Singapore, the fact remains .. u are in the system - the system is not going to change anytime soon - so get with the program or be prepared to lose out. Harsh reality but thats life !


    Last edited by zero o; 23rd September 2009 at 08:31 PM.

  16. #56

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    my child will inherit my property. So rising prices is good for her too.
    good for u

  17. #57

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by USM View Post
    Practically the impact of recession is just too insignificant.
    Low interest rates on mortgages, "affordable' public housing, ability to use CPF to pay for mortgage, low personal income tax rates, high disposable income etc... these are also reasons why Singaporeans feel less of the recession as compared to Western countries.

  18. #58
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    I guess she will be staying with you until the day you die too.

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    my child will inherit my property. So rising prices is good for her too.

  19. #59

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    ..
    3. do whatever we can today, make sacrifices etc so that your kid can have a leg up as far as property ownership is concerned ..
    endless vicious cycle?

  20. #60

    Default Re: HDB property prices...increase maintain or reduce?

    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    endless vicious cycle?
    perhaps so ... but is there an alternative ?
    you can always pull the trigger and choose to exit the system and migrate

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •