my sis bf kinda hit his head somewhere during SOC before he got selected for ocs, he ooc due to a massive blood clot at the right side of his brain with 2 weeks MC from the hospital.
his WO in charge still thought he "keng" when he complained about headaches during training at armor school.
he may be the youngest son in his family but when i saw the tube sticking out from the right side of his head, i wonder what has he done to go though something so serious like this ?
Last edited by Simon_84; 15th September 2009 at 05:30 PM.
to me, today's military career is more of a path to a more stable income and career prospects. If u are able to get a good scholarship education with outstanding merits + good record of community service, u can soar high for a long time.
on the whole, it is still any other job, earning a monthly salary, reporting work on time, given some benefits and bonuses ...
Last edited by raincool2005; 15th September 2009 at 07:31 PM.
Congratulations to threadstarter. I hope you represent a new generation that can really see things clearly as they are.
If I may say so, your 'article' below is flawed in many ways as it construes your perception of being an Officer in the SAF. Maybe is due to the Generation of today, but your argument is morphed into something which puzzles me. Why?
Simply because your first para states your lack of determination as a reason for you not being Commissioned. It does not state your failure physically. Yet you speak about how tough OCS is for 9 months of training, and after that award, be subjected to a 'magnet for work assignments.' As you already confirmed, the prestige of being an Officer demands respect as compared to the 'men' or 'Specialist'. Well, by that designation, Officers would then hold higher positions (which they do), are required to have a 'better helicopter' view, and perform both physically and mentally better then those under their care, is that not the norm?
The current Army, books out on Fridays.
Previous batches had to stay back on Saturdays for RT, and some only get to book out at 4pm, even as a Recruit.
The 'men' can 'tah bodoh', so can the Officers. Or would I be wrong to say that you have not seen an Officer or Cadet never 'Tah Bodoh'? Well, it could be your 1yr stint being your handicap. Give it a few more months in the Unit I would say.
"At the same time, officers also do not trust men to do things other than the most menial of matters." This is by far a microscopic view of the daily chores of soldiers. Again, I relate this to your '1 yr stint' factor. Please confirm the definition of 'menial' in your article. Would preparing flip charts and markers for your presentation to your Platoon be deemed as 'menial'? Well then, how about the Private First Class then go away on their Canteen Break, and FORGET about your charts and markers, so that when you have your Ops Order to the OC/CO, fail to have your charts prepared? Does that sound 'menial' now, Sir?
You mentioned Officers having to 'handle regular Specialist'. May I clarify that for you, as I think you got it the other way around, it is usually the WOSE who have to 'take care' of the Officers as the 9 months of OCS cannot beat their 10yrs of experience.
You claim 'As if there is not enough grievances they quietly face..', by this admission you mean that the amount of grievances faced by our Officers is surmountable to the decisions made by one Officer who lead the 30+ strong in a Platoon into a dead end? Would you back your statement that the Specialist and 2IC's suffer less from the PC's and OC's, as they support their decision? The 'men' then do not suffer the fate decided upon them by the 9 month trained Officer?
I blame this on your current '1yr stint' factor.
'while caring for your menís welfare', I like this one.
Again, I attribute this to your '9 month stint' factor.
I can safely say, out of 10 Officers I have met, only and average of 2 have turned and said 'have the men take 5, eat with their helmets off.'
Out of 10 Platoon Sergeant's I have met, at least 7 do this without looking at the Officer as they sit in the Landrover or tent walking around with their SBO off.
I will take that $7,000, and shove it up your SBO and say, 'keep it son, you earned it, even after 9 months.'
I write not to bring you down, I write to highlight your dim view of your failure to be an Officer of the Core, while taking this chance to demean 'Men & Specialist'.
The 'Specialist' is the Backbone of the SAF, and with that back, stand the Men.
From your essay, I assume you are very young and have finished your full-time national service not too longer bro...
And I am VERY GLAD you did not get commission.
It would have been an embarassment to have you in the officer corps.
Perhaps something caused you to be disillusioned and maybe you will share it, or maybe you will keep it yourself.
But I hope you are not in my unit.
I believe in the character building and bonding NS provides. There are plenty of incidences where safety has been poor, and these have been highlighted. But most people are better off after NS.
For those slackers who cannot wait for your NS stint to be over, the whole experience will be much better if you have a positive attitude.
I have had 2 letters of commendation, my long service medal, my previous Guards unit was best NS unit twice. I can wear the Green, Blue and Brown Beret with pride. When I get my watch, I hope it will be the Seamaster and not the Hamilton.
This December I will go again for my BCTC and I am glad my men look forward to it, and we intend to train hard, train well and enjoy ourselves.
Most of us are fathers to a few kids, have busy jobs or even own our own business. But this is the time of the year for us to lay down these roles and have a blast with the new weapons, hopefully jump out of choppers and re-live those days where we run up Elephant hill and all.
I have scars from all kinds of tumbles, but I also kicked the XXXX out of my PTI during unarmed combat, got my badge and he had to shake my hand at the end of the joust. Why play computer games like Street Fighter when you can do it for real?
Or why watch Black Hawk Down when you can repel down for real and get paid for it.
You have some way to go for your NS life, may I suggest you enjoy the comradeship and take it as "fun" and make good life-long friends along the way.
As for WOs vs Offficers vs NCOs. Its how you handle yourself. There will be competent as well as silly people in all ranks. I have seen PCs topo all over and get the platoon lost. I have seen NCOs try and help get things back on track. Its about the team.
When I get back from Battalion / Brigade briefings with no time to rest or get food, my men have a warm bowl of Maggi waiting for me... with eggs too. But when the time comes for action, then you know you need to be the first out, onto the netting on the ship, out of the chopper, or first off the cliff and even if you feel fear, get a grip and suck it up.
Then remember, "I am an officer of the Singapore Armed Forces, my duty is to lead, to excel and to overcome".
PS: **** I am not a regular**** Just doing my bit for the nation.
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haha.. i'm men level only. But i've seen how officers behave in the unit and i'm not too impressed sometimes. But I do respect them for having gone through their 9 mths in OCS. We can choose to do 2 things. Salute the man or salute the rank. Which would you do?
Where I go for my NS, sure the men call me "Sir"
But like I said, I expect from myself and I assume they also expect that I run faster, jump higher and carry more than them.
Before our ICT, we have drinks to discuss how we can excel in the next ops, not because we are fit (after all, we are no longer young), but how to make the best of it and have fun.
As for things tougher than OCS? Plenty... I had 3 commandos in my IOCC platoon, and they were 5 times fitter than us.
I have trained with some foreign people and they were regulars from Brunei, and again much fitter.
I would love to hear what things members here did that was tougher than OCS.
Salute me because you trust me to lead you into battle.
Nikon D750; FM2; FG; 55mm Micro Nikkor; 28-300 VR; 70-200 VR; Nikon V1 + 10-30mm
There are men and there are men.
There are officers and again, there are officers.
I myself am an officer. And I understand my responsibility and my own vulnerability as a Commander. And especially at this stage of my life, after having seen and tasted the outside world, I vow that when war comes I will be the first to stand up and offer my service.
Even as I have finished my NS liability and am about to receive my Mindef Reserve Letter, I am proud to say that my years in my reservist unit have seen our officers and men work closely together. A great majority of the officers are responsible commanders who won't mind getting their hands soiled with lowly work like carrying bags and setting up tent-age together with the men, who in return, offer their sincerest assistance to their commanders. These commanders truly understand the delicate balance between 'Command', 'Persuasion' and 'Coercion'.
To TS, at the end of the day, it is no longer about 9 months of OCS, about extra work, about being arrowed, about having to live with un-cooperative WO's. All these will no longer be important. Those of us who have ROD-ed and who have served our dues in our reservist units will be able to look back and see with unsurpassed clarity, the big picture. It's all about individual responsibility. Like any company in the civilian world, there will always be Directors, a CEO, a CFO, a GM, Senior Managers, Executives, Administrators, Admin Assistants, Office boys, Janitors.. etc.. Everyone does his/her job.
I am as proud of my NCO's - my Enciks, my Platoon Seargents, my Staff Seargents, my Coporals and my every single men, as I am of my fellow Officers. There is, in my opinion, no real demarcation. We are all here together.
I am simply hoping that every single Singaporean man, after living out his NSF life, and after having been out there in the civilian world, will look back and see the real picture. And all the complains we haboured during our NSF days would be nothing but fleeting moments of displeasure.
i would like to ask if the commandos salute your rank or salute you as a leader ?
or perhaps you haven't heard of what the cdo and ndu personal had to go through just to pass out ?
most ppl passing out from these units would prefer their own unit officer to lead them rather than someone with no ndu/cdo roots.
respect has to be earn through training, where only the fittest can lead the elite.
Last edited by Simon_84; 16th September 2009 at 10:56 AM.
Officer, Specialist or Man, we do our part to serve and defend our nation.
The most basic responsible for NSmen is just to keep fit and at least pass you annual IPPT.
So stop giving excuses and hit the running track tonight if you truly love your nation.
Last edited by Leong23; 16th September 2009 at 11:10 AM.
My last ICT is the most xiong exercise I ever had in my entire NS life. 6 days out-field, bridge building and dismantling exercise, we are combat engineers.
During the toughest part of our exercise where everyone has not slept for 2 days, one of the officer was caught taking a shower in a nearby school (this is in thailand).
The salt-rubbing thing is, he's not even involved in the actual bridge building, he's in-charge of directing traffic.
End of story.
officers & WOSEs - there are good ones and there are crap ones - they exist in all organisations. Its luck and how you handle them.
During my time, I had the mentality that NS was a waste of time and since I have no choice but to go through, I told myself I will just float through the system - nothing more nothing less, I would not push to excel nor would I bring my platoon down as a sabo-king, I harbour no aspiration for OCS (anyways I was granted PES C- I did not do anything to keng - I was given PES C during pre-enlistment checkup) - and in any case, I did not ask to be upgraded. I just flowed with the system.
I reckon its because I was not motivated to go through it. I looked at the vocational army and compared to the conscription system here - hell, a US PFC has more pride than a SAF Cpl, just look at the way they carry themselves. Why? Bcoc a US PFC signed for the job, he truly see his future in the system. Not our NSFs who had just to go through the mills and get out after serving time.
Elsewhere, officers earned their ranks through combat experience - granted, we are blessed that we do not have conflicts to test the mettle of our SAF officers and we hope there is no need to. This is in fact, a catch-22 situation, look at our officers today - how many of them genuinely can lead his men in a war or say, if there is a terrorist event? Or are they simply scholar officers who are good at regurgitating facts and theories but could not motivate the men to execute it?
Being able to orchestrate a NDP event is not the same as leading your men to fight a war and defend a country.
In all battles, historically or those happening in real world, who is actually running on the ground -getting the job done? Do you see US Colonals or Captains running on the ground shooting at Iraqi insurgents? No, you see rankless conscripts and men putting their lives on the line.
Now tell me who got the shortest end of the stick?
Last edited by giantemu; 16th September 2009 at 12:19 PM.
one of them complained that bridge-building and the 7 min-time out were the toughest training they ever encounter.
but sadly one of them got a burst ear drum during a demolition exercise and had to downgrade thus losing the chance to be an officer while the other eventually finish his role.
after hearing all these stuff, i got to say combat engineers are really the toughest sai gang warriors in the army, got to respect them.
on the other hand, sad to hear that your ICT officer wasn't quite up to the mark while in thailand.