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Thread: Should photographers accept models with defects?

  1. #141

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Honestly I think "models" with braces, skin rashes, bad acne/ bad skin, or ugly tattoos shouldnt be a model in the first place. Period.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by lynniepang View Post
    Honestly I think "models" with braces, skin rashes, bad acne/ bad skin, or ugly tattoos shouldnt be a model in the first place. Period.
    i think bad skin isn't that bad,

    but then again, a lot of CS mua tend to be subpar standard, don't know how to cover flaws, from what i can see. the photographers also don't know how to handle the skin.

  3. #143

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by lynniepang View Post
    Honestly I think "models" with braces, skin rashes, bad acne/ bad skin, or ugly tattoos shouldnt be a model in the first place. Period.
    i beg to differ.
    http://www.ugly.org/

    maybe singaporeans' mindset of a model is different.
    They got to have flawless skin, perfect teeth, silky shiny hair, sweet/cute looking, big eyes, perfect body etc. In that case, why aren't the models featured in organized shoots even half as closed to the latter? And people are still rushing to join and pay for such shoots.

    It's not about how good a model/talent look.
    It's about how well the photographer can communicate and direct, to bring out the best of his/her subjects. At the end of the day, it's not just rapidly firing blindly and hope for a good shot to appear. If that's the case, might as well get a video camera and shoot; at 25 frames per second, there's bound to be one excellent shot in a 60 minute tape.

  4. #144

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    would anyone shoot her?

  5. #145

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiphopper View Post
    maybe singaporeans' mindset of a model is different.
    They got to have flawless skin, perfect teeth, silky shiny hair, sweet/cute looking, big eyes, perfect body etc. In that case, why aren't the models featured in organized shoots even half as closed to the latter? And people are still rushing to join and pay for such shoots.
    no no no.. actually they just need to know how to do victory sign and accept gifts and wear outfits that the photographers want them to wear.

  6. #146
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    This I agree Those who say "bring out the best" - you're probably thinking of the makeover or family photo industry, rather than the modelling or fashion industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by lynniepang View Post
    Honestly I think "models" with braces, skin rashes, bad acne/ bad skin, or ugly tattoos shouldnt be a model in the first place. Period.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    if you think fashion or modelling industry is just about putting on some makeup and fancy garments, do a zoolander face and wait for the photographer to take a shot, then i think you are really thinking of the makeover or family portrait industry.

  8. #148

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiphopper View Post
    i beg to differ.
    http://www.ugly.org/

    maybe singaporeans' mindset of a model is different.
    They got to have flawless skin, perfect teeth, silky shiny hair, sweet/cute looking, big eyes, perfect body etc. In that case, why aren't the models featured in organized shoots even half as closed to the latter? And people are still rushing to join and pay for such shoots.

    It's not about how good a model/talent look.
    It's about how well the photographer can communicate and direct, to bring out the best of his/her subjects. At the end of the day, it's not just rapidly firing blindly and hope for a good shot to appear. If that's the case, might as well get a video camera and shoot; at 25 frames per second, there's bound to be one excellent shot in a 60 minute tape.


    I think you missed the point entirely.

    A model needs to have good if not flawless skin, the height and the figure, ideally no tattoos unless its for some specific shoot, NO orthodontic braces, healthy looking hair, and generally be pleasant looking. By "model", I mean model, and not model wannabe. I dont consider the "models" in Clubsnap to be models. By "models" I mean models in agencies like Phantom, Diva et al.

    If the model does not possess the basic requirements of a model, no matter how good the photographer is, he wont be able to make her look good. Sure, you can say its up to the skills of the photog to capture her best angle, bring out her best etc.

    But if I let you choose a model between Fiona Xie and Patricia Mok, who would you choose? Enough said.

  9. #149
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Hahah, well nope, I don't think so

    Quote Originally Posted by hiphopper View Post
    if you think fashion or modelling industry is just about putting on some makeup and fancy garments, do a zoolander face and wait for the photographer to take a shot, then i think you are really thinking of the makeover or family portrait industry.

  10. #150
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Perhaps sometimes people want to appear to be politically correct, not wanting to be viewed as "shallow" for only going for the flawless models. However, the reality is that models need to be as you described, and those who are in the industry knows (as opposed to amateurs who prefer to say "its the photographer's job to make the model pretty"). That may be true in makeover or family portraits, but not in fashion or advertising.

    Quote Originally Posted by lynniepang View Post
    I think you missed the point entirely.

    A model needs to have good if not flawless skin, the height and the figure, ideally no tattoos unless its for some specific shoot, NO orthodontic braces, healthy looking hair, and generally be pleasant looking. By "model", I mean model, and not model wannabe. I dont consider the "models" in Clubsnap to be models. By "models" I mean models in agencies like Phantom, Diva et al.

    If the model does not possess the basic requirements of a model, no matter how good the photographer is, he wont be able to make her look good. Sure, you can say its up to the skills of the photog to capture her best angle, bring out her best etc.

    But if I let you choose a model between Fiona Xie and Patricia Mok, who would you choose? Enough said.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    flawless skin, no doubt.


  12. #152

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    devon aoki is 5"5. towering height indeed.

    that translates to 165.1 cm. by ang mo standards, that is really a giant!
    Last edited by night86mare; 19th September 2009 at 10:29 PM.

  13. #153

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by phoakm View Post
    Do I have to raise a non-conformance form and issue a corrective actions for the organisers for not making the customer criteria? ....If the subject's feature is not so good, should I raise a permanent corrective actions as continuous improvement? I believe in one control.....the subject's and organiser's self improvement. If things are not good, try and improve them. In the end, this is for customer's satisfaction.
    The problem is lies with the customers. Too many GWCs here are just too easily satisfied. As long as a xmm smiles at them, wears a little less, stands in front of their camera, they are happy. So, customers' demand is satisfied, but that does not means the standard is good. I really should not use the word "good". In many instances, the best I can say is "just above sucks".


    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    yes, but it already became a norm, a catch 22 situation...

    if photographer don't offer "incentive", can't get models for TFCD...
    models only offer TFCD to photographer offer "incentive"......
    the quality of work already throw out of window.
    This is the SAD part. You meant, the photographer's skills, artistic talent and track record for producing good to great images do not count as incentives? This is really sad.


    Quote Originally Posted by lynniepang View Post
    Honestly I think "models" with braces, skin rashes, bad acne/ bad skin, or ugly tattoos shouldnt be a model in the first place. Period.
    Cannot agree more. Many are just too deluded, they thought, they believe and worst, they were told that they were beautiful, they should be models. And in reality, well, they really cannot. So, as customers, if we accepts subpar products and services, we deserve to get what we are dished. **see my comments about GWCs above**
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  14. #154

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Perhaps sometimes people want to appear to be politically correct, not wanting to be viewed as "shallow" for only going for the flawless models. However, the reality is that models need to be as you described, and those who are in the industry knows (as opposed to amateurs who prefer to say "its the photographer's job to make the model pretty"). That may be true in makeover or family portraits, but not in fashion or advertising.
    well if you want to assume those information about me, i'm totally cool.
    you really do sound like a seasoned shooter doing it for many years.
    Last edited by hiphopper; 20th September 2009 at 02:08 AM.

  15. #155

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    sorry, i forget, i am not in the industry.

    time to be an amateur in a corner and keep quiet.
    haha...we should have kept really quiet in the first place.

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    There will be different views.. and the sharing/exchange of views and opinions is what makes the forum interesting.. apart from being a source of information.

    There'll be pple who share/agree/appreciate you & NM's views too.. and there'll be pple who enjoys reading them Just that not everyone posts..

    It's not important whether others agrees with you..

    What is important is you're willing to share your views


    Quote Originally Posted by hiphopper View Post
    haha...we should have kept really quiet in the first place.

  17. #157
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    You sure you don't usually ask for credentials? This is the Xth time (X>5) you have asked ME for credentials, not to mention any others (if any). You're all about credentials.

    I know you're a scholarship holder, but seriously, why do you always get hung up over credentials?

    I'm not in the industry full time because I'm not a full time photographer, but I know personally and have worked with many full time models/MUAs and assisted full time photographers in both editorial and advertising industry shoots. Hence I can easily gain the knowledge I require to comment.

    Yes, Lynniepang is in the industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    wait, so you are in the industry?

    lynniepang is too??

    can you state some credentials then? i mean, i don't usually ask for that, but since.. you claim that "those who are in the industry knows".. and well, you support that view, i thought you might be able to state something.

    it is not a matter of politically correct or not. what we're saying is that you don't NECESSARILY need "flawless beauty" models to shoot fashion. just because they are generally PREFERRED is different from claiming that it is a MUST. it is just like a fat kid tends to demand fried chicken - if he is in the mood for something else, steamed chicken might do as well. just because he eats fried chicken 90% of the time doesn't mean he only can eat fried chicken.
    Yes you need to keep quiet before you make a fool of yourself, if you have not already.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    sorry, i forget, i am not in the industry.

    time to be an amateur in a corner and keep quiet.
    Since you're all about credentials, and you have admitted you have none, please dont feel obliged to respond further since you have no say in anything going by your OWN standards. In fact, by your own admission, I don't expect any more from you than to simply keep quiet; otherwise you have just contradicted yoruself.

    You dont' even shoot much models, hence by your own reckoning and standards (not mine btw, since I don'tmake it a habit to ask for credentials like you; but I might as well rely on it now against you), my word is bigger than yours and hence please defer to my opinion

    To the rest, please don't bother attacking credentials or the like, since this statement is solely intended for night86mare and his obsession with credentials. I do not, and have not seen any need to rely on credentials over the substance of what is actualyl said. So what if one has credentials? It does not make what he says automatically correct.
    Last edited by vince123123; 20th September 2009 at 09:15 PM.

  18. #158

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I know you're a scholarship holder, but seriously, why do you always get hung up over credentials?

    Is he on a PSC scholarship or something? Cause the way he always responds is very similar to those standard replies given by Stat Board, those that
    you read often in Straits Times. I wouldn't be surprised if he is, he'll make a good government spokesman

    I better keep quiet too in case he ask me for my credentials

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    sorry, i forget, i am not in the industry.

    time to be an amateur in a corner and keep quiet.
    You are in the prize winning industry!


  20. #160
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    No worries, thanks for seeing the light.

    Unlike you, I dont make it a point to ask for credentials, so I have no problem remembering this point. You'll do well to do so too

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    thank you.

    if know personally counts, then like that, everyone also can say.. just remember that also.
    Last edited by vince123123; 20th September 2009 at 11:23 PM.

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