err bro Vince, I think thread title is "Should photographers accept models with defects?" and not "Last minute switching of models because the one advertised (allegedly) fly aeroplane (misrepresentation)" or 'Why some shoots never start on time'
I'm not a shoot organizer and I HATE speaking up for organizers , but if I were, I'd put a 'model comes as is' clause in the advertising .... reputation/notoriety, word-of-mouth/forum and time will sort out the rest
Just my humble opinion .... but when it comes to non-disclosure, or misrepresentation of non uniform items (aside from minimum of 1 head with hair , 2 arms, 2 legs ,a body and all 10 fingers and toes) this is can go down a very long and dark road with no light for both organizer or photog
Last edited by ed9119; 15th September 2009 at 09:38 AM.
Hmm, well if you are interpreting what this thread is about solely based on the title, than you are correct. However, I prefer to interpret the thread not only based on the title, but based on the substance of the first post as well. Hence, I come to a conclusion (albeit different form yours) that this thread is about non disclosure and misrepresentation.
As for the reputation thingy, I believe in this, which is why I am encouraging the posting of such misrepresentations with examples and details, naming organisers and/or models in a thread in this forum.
As for the dark road, I think perhaps an easy way to let users judge for themselves, is to post the "advertised photos" and the photos actually taken on the day itself showing the model in her true light. If there are doubts about the bona-fide ness (or even some may criticise the skill of the poster in making the model, say, look fat) then a thread will encourage other participants of that same shoot to join in to give their own two cents. THe users of thsi forum can then judge for themselves if the complaint was valid, or frivolous.
However, if no post/thread is done, then such deeds will be forgotten or even hidden.
if i advertised in the BBB an image of a lens that looks normal. Then you drove all the way to the other side of the island to buy the lens. Upon inspection, you found a scratch on the lens surface, and what would be your reaction?
1. Who is going to compensate you for your time and effort if you decide NOT to buy?
2. If the owner knew about the scratch but felt that it was not an issue because it was only a small scratch, do you think that it is fair to you that you were not informed of that before you decide to view that lens?
3. If the owner knew about the defect only when you were deciding and hoping that you would buy it without knowing that defect, do you think that this is a fair deal?
We are not complaining about a model having some ugly accessories, where these can be easily discarded before a shoot, but having braces (where it is impossible to remove on the spot) or oversize bigini (where there is no other alternative, since there is no spare ones, etc). If models have tattoos and the organizer declares as such, and even show an image of the tattoo, I am sure those photographers who sign on the shoot would gladly accept that tattoo/prop as an asset to his image profile.
This thread is NOT necessarily directed at organizers, but most importantly at the models. All models should declare their deficiency to the organizers/photographers before accepting any assignment.
always the Light, .... always.
Anyway, I was never in the mood to shoot model with big, reflective silver braces in their mouth, etc and so I have to disappoint you that i do not have any images to post here to show my point. I will leave it to you people to decide whether models and organizers should be more transparent in their advertising.
always the Light, .... always.
Now not all girls say yes to you on the day itself, some took me months of regular call and chat before they consent. There was a time I have a beautiful girl in all angle but just happened on the day of shoot she had pimples all over. The other I had, she got a pretty face, I did't get to see the body (shall I asked her to strip and inspect?) for she was behind counter, three month to the arranged shoot she put on weight on top of that she was a bit 'fat' , My friends and I end up shooting the face and almost no body shots, still a fun day.
I shot too a girl whose teeth were stained and didn't look nice with open smile, she knows , but I shot her smile and clean (PP) her teeth one by one. Very time consuming. I had a girl so beautiful in everything except her hands (God is fair to everyone ya?) so I had a hard time placing her hand, but as ED said here is where we learn.
I think the word defect may not be the right word, I am yet to meet a human with no defect. I agree that teeth braces should be mentioned, but tattoo is individual taste, some tattoo enhance the shots.
At the end I imagine if I am the organiser collecting $30, I won't be able to deliver. Unless we pay the model a hefty sum (pro) I don't think I dare to ask to see the defects myself.
You may have misread my post as a direct challenge to you to prove what you said; please rest assured that it is not. I can understand your points totally and hence, my suggestion was in rebuttal to ed119 and is intended for future occurences to be narrated here.
Otherwise, if everyone agrees that organisers/models need to change, but yet keeps quiet, then what incentive is there for any model/organiser to change? They know they will get away with it time after time since they are not made known.
the use of words like 'defect' is very disrespectful as some of the users here have already mention (in a much more subtle manner).
In that sense, you see yourself photographing a product and not a portrait. If so, why complain that your shots have 'defects' when the approach to portraiture is fundamentally wrong?
I think alot of people are missing the woods for the trees.