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Thread: Should photographers accept models with defects?

  1. #81

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    Hey bros ....

    this Mr Ninelives think that I am very mean by starting this thread and that I am making fun of people here ....

    I would want to ask if anyone here think the same like him, and if so, I would like to close this thread as I didn't think I have written anything so far that has pinpointed anyone or has demeaned anyone ....

    I only wanted organizers to be more responsible in their advertising in their shoots ....

    Don't close this thread please!!

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    Hey bros ....

    this Mr Ninelives think that I am very mean by starting this thread and that I am making fun of people here ....

    I would want to ask if anyone here think the same like him, and if so, I would like to close this thread as I didn't think I have written anything so far that has pinpointed anyone or has demeaned anyone ....

    I only wanted organizers to be more responsible in their advertising in their shoots ....
    u all the while damn bad 1 wat... since when u take these into consideration?
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  3. #83
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by zguy View Post
    another trade open secret: after a few trial/TFCD sessions, model will be looking for paid shoots at $100-$150/hr using CS, modelmayhem, onemodelplace etc.
    that's fine, if model has what it takes to command a fee.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    Hey bros ....

    this Mr Ninelives think that I am very mean by starting this thread and that I am making fun of people here ....

    I would want to ask if anyone here think the same like him, and if so, I would like to close this thread as I didn't think I have written anything so far that has pinpointed anyone or has demeaned anyone ....

    I only wanted organizers to be more responsible in their advertising in their shoots ....
    I second ur exact sentiments.... I think this is a serious enough matter for forum discussion in every aspect... if organizers are serious enough to be making $$ from organizing shoots, I think consumers, and forum-readers should be entitled to air their thoughts.
    Last edited by satch; 14th September 2009 at 05:09 PM.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by satch View Post
    Don't understimate the profitability of $30 photoshoot... I was told (by models themselve) that newbie models get paid like $10/hr (fashion) or $15/hr (bikini) or $20/hr (lingerie) if I recall correctly. At $30 per photog for a 2 hr fashion shoot, and assuming a 6-1 ratio, that's $150 profit or 750% gross margin. More shockingly, I heard of newbie models being asked to join these shoots for "training" or "TFCD" while organizer charges the photog...that's like taking a "sample" or "not for sale" product and selling it to customers!
    Make a bit of profit I think ok. They got pay subscription fee to run this forum.. Must thank them.
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  6. #86
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    IMHO, a model who has some defects, such as tattoo, skin rashes, and most commonly newly installed braces, bad stained teeth, etc .... MUST notify the organizer of the defect beforehand and when advertising for services or a photoshoot, the photographers must be informed so that one can have the choice to join or not to join the shoot.

    There are many instances that the model's image posted looks good but on the actual day, one is presented with a model with some kind of defects.
    Of course it is very easy to say that photographers can walk out of the shoot (but who is paying for the travel costs and time?) or reject the model, but because most local photographers are kind-hearted, the shoot is always on even though one gets very annoyed when the model cant smile, cant open her mouth, etc ....

    Also models with over-size dresses, uniforms, bigini, bra, etc... (we are NOT shooting goats, SION, etc...)

    I beg CS organizers to look into this matter with some responsibility and professionalism ....
    Should ask organizers for discount mah.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao_shin View Post
    Make a bit of profit I think ok. They got pay subscription fee to run this forum.. Must thank them.
    siao... abit of profit might as well dun do...

    just tot of a song for organisers... since got defects sure got returns...



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  8. #88

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    siao... abit of profit might as well dun do...

    just tot of a song for organisers... since got defects sure got returns...



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    Yeeks, u got listen to boy band one ah??!!

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  9. #89
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeiPiGu View Post
    Yeeks, u got listen to boy band one ah??!!

    Respect drop 100 points
    nebermind... also not for u 1...
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  10. #90
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Should ask organizers for discount mah.
    $30 already very cheap liao, how to give discount?

    if you sion come and join the shoot, will specially throw in a auntie model just for you.
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  11. #91
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Should ask organizers for discount mah.
    $30 really very cheap le... any cheaper, the models really poor thing, not even enough for them to take taxi to and fro. I think the overall focus shld really be to improve on the quality aspect.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    siao... abit of profit might as well dun do...

    just tot of a song for organisers... since got defects sure got returns...



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    A bit better than nothing mah. At least, we don't have to go the way of furex membership.
    ** So guilty, I ony came here to see XMM but didn't contribution any $$ **

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  13. #93

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Maybe this thread is not a good idea.. Wait the organiser put in small print in their photoshoot thread.. Humzzzzz
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  14. #94
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    IF there is tattoo on the model, I'll try to find an angle to minimise the looks of the tattoo.

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Beauty and defects are so subjective

    I trust that we all shoot with an eye to improving our craft .... and if your photography depends on a pretty perfect-everything to hold up your image..... then you have failed and learned nothing except bask in self-deluding praise.

    Law of natural selection will weed out the organizers who put together sloppy jobs so I dont really see the point of commoditizing 'beauty'.....

    What they throw at you..... you better work hard to earn those 'oohs' and 'aahs' .... $30 is your tuition fee... organizer gets profit to provide the subject, get the props and environment ready ..... its not your bribe to get an easy target...

    I quote a Rant below from friend Brian from several years back which I have permission to use:

    "People say 'beautiful', but it's not because the photograph is well-executed or has any creative or artistic value but because the subject itself is beautiful.

    In otherwords, take a snapshot of any sunset anywhere in the world and no one will say 'this is such crap' because sunsets are beautiful. If a person is even slightly technically competent or is using a camera in 'P' mode then this kind of picture is simple to get and doesn't hurt the photogs face to show friends or post for critique (unless there are honest *ssh*les like Ted & I around )."

    The real danger is that the photographer will actually belive that the photograph itself is beautiful, not the subject. Then he/she will cease the learning process...and spend the rest of their lives in the safe 'zone' that they've established churning out nothing but crappy images of beautiful subjects.

    The ones that know the difference between a beautifully executed photograph and a beautiful subject are the ones that excel. The others continue to produce eye candy and get offended if anything poor is said about the image as if you are insulting the beauty of sunset, or the bug, or the flower itself and not their image of it"

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Saw this in another thread.. might as well add to the checklist..

    [/] Reflector Provided
    [ ] Person to hold the reflector????

    [ ] Got extra 1 Shooter to fight for shooting space?

    Not sure if those attending shoots consider this as important?


    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    Think probably before entering this kinda shoot, just ask the organiser for checklist...

    [ ]Porcelain
    [ ]Fake
    [ ]Lenses
    [ ]Tattoos: ___________________

    etc, please feel free to fill up more criteria. Organisers may use this as well.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    Saw this in another thread.. might as well add to the checklist..

    [/] Reflector Provided
    [ ] Person to hold the reflector????

    [ ] Got extra 1 Shooter to fight for shooting space?

    Not sure if those attending shoots consider this as important?
    haha

    [/] organizer will shoot ?

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    err.. that's the option 3.. no need so explicit mah..

    Quote Originally Posted by soeypixels View Post
    haha

    [/] organizer will shoot ?

  19. #99

    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    IMHO, a model who has some defects, such as tattoo, skin rashes, and most commonly newly installed braces, bad stained teeth, etc .... MUST notify the organizer of the defect beforehand and when advertising for services or a photoshoot, the photographers must be informed so that one can have the choice to join or not to join the shoot.
    Uncle, I'm not that ninelives though it shares half my username

    Anyway, I thought some simple info that both models & organisers can give are updated:

    Height
    Weight
    Stats
    Tattoo
    Tanlines
    Braces
    Haircolor/long/short/curly etc.

    Optional:
    Shoe size
    Clothes size
    Specs/contact lens
    Scars

    That's why good orgainsers have assistants to fix hair/clothes etc. But then we'll be paying in excess of S$100/model or shoot.

    I think model's attitude of the day is more important than anything else.
    "Like Moths, photographers gather at the sight of light" Robert Doisneau
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  20. #100
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Should photographers accept models with defects?

    Perhaps you can name the organisers and models after the shoot in a thread; bad publicity is almost always a good way to curb such behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    IMHO, a model who has some defects, such as tattoo, skin rashes, and most commonly newly installed braces, bad stained teeth, etc .... MUST notify the organizer of the defect beforehand and when advertising for services or a photoshoot, the photographers must be informed so that one can have the choice to join or not to join the shoot.

    There are many instances that the model's image posted looks good but on the actual day, one is presented with a model with some kind of defects.
    Of course it is very easy to say that photographers can walk out of the shoot (but who is paying for the travel costs and time?) or reject the model, but because most local photographers are kind-hearted, the shoot is always on even though one gets very annoyed when the model cant smile, cant open her mouth, etc ....

    Also models with over-size dresses, uniforms, bigini, bra, etc... (we are NOT shooting goats, SION, etc...)

    I beg CS organizers to look into this matter with some responsibility and professionalism ....

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