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Thread: HEARTLESS "PHOTOGRAPHER"

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by clive
    i think the more heartless person are those already at the scene but didnt help the old man

    it's ambiguous because you don't want too many people helping out someone who just met with an accident because of

    mishandling

    and

    he needs space to breathe

  2. #22
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    Morale is kind of debasive.
    Well, journalist does that all the time..its their job....
    But then, it is hard to say whether is rite or wrong.
    Yesterday a gal was not feeling well after waiting too long under the sun for the firecrackers.
    While she was being tend to by the St John's pple, a couple of photographers rushed over to take pictures of her.
    Well, wonder how everyone thinks of this.....
    Dancing desert scorpion
    :devil:

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ST1100
    Reminds me of that guy who won the Pulitzer prize - a shot of a vulture hovering over a starving girl who was crawling away.

    He chased the vulture away and left. The bird probably came back to finish the job.

    He later committed suicide, some years down the road, bcoz of the amount of despair and death he saw, and not being able (or willing?) to help.

    Kevin Carter

  4. #24
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    Default too many cook spoil the broth....

    Hiee....

    I personally think...this ISSUE of "Heartless thingy" have been thrown a little over board.....

    Here are some points .......

    1- Media is media and news can be interpreted and sensationalised by individauls in many many many many ways. Lets juz take the news as news and life goes on.

    2- As an ex-first aid instructor (red cross) i personally feel that once help is called for, its best to have one (Only one...may be two is happens to be available) to attend and not crowd round an injured person. Trying to move or evacuate when uneccessary will further alleviate any problems. Only trianed personal if available should be there to render FIRST AID .

    TIPS:
    For such incident ....appply WARS until help arrives (in this case ambulance)
    - W : Warmth
    - A : Air (break or disperse all crowds so that casualty is able to get sufficiant air(oxygen)- loosen any tight clothing - belt or buckle.
    - R: Let the person REST and do keep watch on conciousness...
    - S: SIPS OF WATER /or wet the casualty lips and try to console him/her too.


    3- Lets set aside the Heartless "label" and let the photographer be. If he/she feels so....let him repent...god willing. And let him setlle it ...apologose or what ever with the mans family....

    4- Come to think of it.....if we are to label ALL photographers who take pictures in these kind of situation (journalist)....are Heartless???...Lets drop this discussion.....and let the man's soul rest in peace.

    UNLESS....the photographer himself is a TRAINED FIRST AIDER....then...its hie/her responsibility on all humanitarian to step out from the crowd to render help.....

    Hah....why not CS organise First Air course at Singapore Red Cross Society.....???

    Regards,
    Sulhan
    Last edited by sulhan; 4th January 2004 at 04:20 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulhan
    Hah....why not CS organise First Air course at Singapore Red Cross Society.....???
    actually, i dont mind going back for refresher course. scared that in the one year past, i've become rusty since my SFA course...

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrios
    I don't think we should be too judgmental about it. There were many bystanders at scene and chances that someone among them had already called for the ambulance were great. It was not like a "one to one" situation - between the casualty and the photographer - that the latter would be so callous. From the photogaph, one could see that the injured had already been attended to by others and there was nothing the photographer could do except to say a prayer or two for the casualty.
    Even if someone has already called the ambulance, it won't hurt to call again to report it.

    You mean if you saw robbers running out of a bank/goldsmith shop, you will think "Oh, the shopkeepers will call the police themselves, so why bother???"

    How will you feel if you were the one hurt and needed help and passer-by just walk by you?


    Nothing the photographer could do???
    If I read correctly, he stopped by in a CAR!
    The least he could have done is to offer to send the poor guy to the nearest hospital/clinic

    If the guy had a heart attack, he will need medical attention fast and so what if there is someone "attending" to him, she is no nurse and has no defibrillator at hand.
    Last edited by Winston; 4th January 2004 at 07:24 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    If I read correctly, he stopped by in a CAR!
    The least he could have done is to offer to send the poor guy to the nearest hospital/clinic
    ah, yes! no wonder something felt odd to me about the story, but i couldn't figure out what... must be my halfawake stupor... thanks for pointing out, Winston!

  8. #28
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    Hi,

    I also missed out that he stopped by a CAR. But as a first aider (high 5 peepz, im also from Red Cross).However, just a sidenote, It is not reccomended to move a casualty, especially if the chances of fractures and dislocations are high.

    In this case, the man collapse; possibly for unknown reasons. Heart Attack could be one. Immediate rescue is required.

  9. #29
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    problem will arise if the chap is a certified first aider, but instead of helping, just added to the stress of the lady.

    if there's no one helping on-site, and if the chap is a CFA (certified first aider, not certified financial something) and he didn't even do the basic DRABC work and just shot photos, he oughta get shot. then again, some higher mighty power will impose judgement on him, so i'm not gonna bother. just feel sad lor.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    Even if someone has already called the ambulance, it won't hurt to call again to report it.

    You mean if you saw robbers running out of a bank/goldsmith shop, you will think "Oh, the shopkeepers will call the police themselves, so why bother???"

    How will you feel if you were the one hurt and needed help and passer-by just walk by you?


    Nothing the photographer could do???
    If I read correctly, he stopped by in a CAR!
    The least he could have done is to offer to send the poor guy to the nearest hospital/clinic

    If the guy had a heart attack, he will need medical attention fast and so what if there is someone "attending" to him, she is no nurse and has no defibrillator at hand.
    just imho, i think you are wrong.

    cos in any case, if you move him in your vehicle, & there is a jam, do you think you can get on faster? remember his car is not an ambulance, there is no siren or anything. unless he is a first aider, the 1st thing he should have done is CPR & nothing else.
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    just imho, i think you are wrong.

    cos in any case, if you move him in your vehicle, & there is a jam, do you think you can get on faster? remember his car is not an ambulance, there is no siren or anything. unless he is a first aider, the 1st thing he should have done is CPR & nothing else.
    If there is a jam, siren or not, it won't help.

    The issue here is not to debate "What if's"
    What if the guy woke up in 1 min
    What if the lady had first aid knowledge
    What if the guy did not stop at all
    What if the guy crashed into the victim instead...
    What if the sky rained..
    What if the lady offered the driver, one million to help?
    What if the ambluance appears suddenly in 1 min?

    WHAT IF THE GUY DIED WHILE YOU ARE THINKING "WHAT IFs"?

    Supporters of the driver/photographer say it is to easy to judge....etc

    However if you view it from the victim's POV, or if you are ever in a situation where your loved one is in distress and you see someone stop to take photo of you/your loved ones to take part in some competition and drove off.

    What will be your POV then?


    Just like the issue of the qurantinee breaker.
    Some people say we should be lenient to him, however those who said that do not have family members who were in contact with the quarantinee breaker and have their lives/health at risk.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wryer
    Hi,

    I also missed out that he stopped by a CAR. But as a first aider (high 5 peepz, im also from Red Cross).However, just a sidenote, It is not reccomended to move a casualty, especially if the chances of fractures and dislocations are high.

    In this case, the man collapse; possibly for unknown reasons. Heart Attack could be one. Immediate rescue is required.
    Yes. For heart attack, if aid is given in the first 10 mins, there is a 50% chance, next 10mins will be 0%.

    Even if the driver tried and did not make it in time.

    I believe the victim's family will be grateful to him for the help rather then he passing the family photos of the dying man.

  13. #33

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    The photographer say's he's correct.
    The victim's family say's they're correct.
    So who's correct?

    That's why there is something called law. If u break it, you're wrong; if u don't, then you're correct.

    If I'm not wrong, watching someone die is not against the law, at least in S'pore, rite?

  14. #34
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    I think we ALL should get a life and move on. Has not this thread served its purpose of venting some disgust, further discussion does nothing and goes nowhere. I for one hope someone can close this.

  15. #35

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    Well, I think this is just one topic where there's probably no right answers. But everyone's got a right to voice their opinions and they are just that.
    If you can't lend a helping hand other than make a call for help, then don't go beyond that cos it may do more harm than good. But I pity those who take photos under this kind of situation for the sake of competition. Unless you are a photojournalist, I think there are other better situations where the photographer in question could have taken a picture for competition. And I also think that sometimes we photographers seem to traumatise subjects rather than being helpful.

  16. #36

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    yeah
    this sounds like crap
    and insensitive

    but he's gone
    let him rest in peace

    what can you do by discussing this

    let him find his own conscience

    and let him decide for himself if he will do the same next time
    or do different

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    If there is a jam, siren or not, it won't help.

    The issue here is not to debate "What if's"
    What if the guy woke up in 1 min
    What if the lady had first aid knowledge
    What if the guy did not stop at all
    What if the guy crashed into the victim instead...
    What if the sky rained..
    What if the lady offered the driver, one million to help?
    What if the ambluance appears suddenly in 1 min?

    WHAT IF THE GUY DIED WHILE YOU ARE THINKING "WHAT IFs"?

    Supporters of the driver/photographer say it is to easy to judge....etc

    However if you view it from the victim's POV, or if you are ever in a situation where your loved one is in distress and you see someone stop to take photo of you/your loved ones to take part in some competition and drove off.

    What will be your POV then?


    Just like the issue of the qurantinee breaker.
    Some people say we should be lenient to him, however those who said that do not have family members who were in contact with the quarantinee breaker and have their lives/health at risk.
    Anyway i just pointing to you that you dun move the patient around, in case of heart attack or something, CPR & BCLS is the more important thing.

    Heart stop pumping, what do you do? pump the heart, provide oxygen lor, instead of moving the person around, by the time you reach the nearest hospital, its more than 10mins, No matter how fast you drive, y not just provide CPR & wait for the ambulance?

    Sometimes you can't move a patient just anyway you like, for eg, an road accident, he may have fracture, & also unless necessary, cos police need to note down the location. Insurance claims may be void due to this.

    Best not to take everything onto your own hands, its kinda dangerous, may harm you & him in the process. mayb the next thread would be some photographer too eager to save a person & end up killing him?
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  18. #38

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    alamak! how do i withdraw my poll?

    i accidentally hit the wrong button!!! I didn't really follow the thread then i press wrong button!

    jialat!

    paiseh......

    so because of me, the polls should be one less for "photo" and one more for "love" instead.

    Love all, serve all.... Hard Rock motto.

    IMHO, in this kind of situation, if someone takes a picture for his/her own benefit, that's like papparazi. If use for competition purposes, that's super below the belt. If use for competition such as the Red Cross one, then that's despicable and more so coz it's totally ironic to the theme of "People helping people"!

    Again, I apologise if I mistakenly skewed the poll ratings.

  19. #39
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    Imagine yr own dad collapsed at the roadside and u were at his side to administer whatever aid available. Suddenly, this guy drives up in his car and starts snapping pics of yr dad in pain/agony[Without even asking for permission or identifying who the heck he is]. Yr dad unfortunately dies and this guy continues to snap pics. Eventually he approaches u and offer to give u some pics depicting the "last moments of yr dad's life". Wat would u do??

    1) Thank him for his help in capturing the last moments of yr dad's life. Also inform him u will frame the pics in the family hall for memory's sake. Also comment that the pics look artistic thru the cam's LCD.

    2) Grab his cam and smash it on the ground. Give him a good dressing down.

    3) Stare at him in disgust and acknowledge the existence of insensitive heartless pple in this world.

  20. #40
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    If I observe that it would be crucial that I render assistance, then I will definitely help. But if the situation is being handled by others, I may whip out my camera, with due consideration to keeping it as discreet as possible as well as preserving the dignity of the victims.
    Sony Alpha system user. www.pbase.com/synapseman

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