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Thread: Your views on the current surging property market

  1. #81
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by dreaming View Post
    this one, must cut and paste here. 200 over thousand, nearly 300K for a 3room in mature estate, and is called affordable.

    A better question would be, why would a newly marry couple/1st time buyer/anyone else, who can't afford 200-300K, still die die also want to buy Resale flats in mature estate ?? Its like getting a office in the heart of CBD and wanting the rent to cost no more than in the Heartlands.

    A word of advice.... there are cheaper flats in S'pore.... but they are mostly in NEW estate or in slightly more Ulu area.... a friend of my just downpayment his BTO unit (3Rooms) next to S'pore Sport School in Woodlands for $120+K. He will be getting his 'Keys' in 2-3 years time. If you can't wait.... 4Rooms flats are selling between $240-300K in Woodlands.... instead of the same amount for a 3Room flat in AMK, Yishun.

    We can't have our cakes and eat it.... If you can afford it, buy where you want, how big you want..... if you can't, then make do with what you can afford.

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  2. #82
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    At this rate, we will probably be staying in Pulau Tekong & Ubin pretty soon and accept that as being okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    A better question would be, why would a newly marry couple/1st time buyer/anyone else, who can't afford 200-300K, still die die also want to buy Resale flats in mature estate ?? Its like getting a office in the heart of CBD and wanting the rent to cost no more than in the Heartlands.

    A word of advice.... there are cheaper flats in S'pore.... but they are mostly in NEW estate or in slightly more Ulu area.... a friend of my just downpayment his BTO unit (3Rooms) next to S'pore Sport School in Woodlands for $120+K. He will be getting his 'Keys' in 2-3 years time. If you can't wait.... 4Rooms flats are selling between $240-300K in Woodlands.... instead of the same amount for a 3Room flat in AMK, Yishun.

    We can't have our cakes and eat it.... If you can afford it, buy where you want, how big you want..... if you can't, then make do with what you can afford.

  3. #83

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    A better question would be, why would a newly marry couple/1st time buyer/anyone else, who can't afford 200-300K, still die die also want to buy Resale flats in mature estate ?? Its like getting a office in the heart of CBD and wanting the rent to cost no more than in the Heartlands.

    A word of advice.... there are cheaper flats in S'pore.... but they are mostly in NEW estate or in slightly more Ulu area.... a friend of my just downpayment his BTO unit (3Rooms) next to S'pore Sport School in Woodlands for $120+K. He will be getting his 'Keys' in 2-3 years time. If you can't wait.... 4Rooms flats are selling between $240-300K in Woodlands.... instead of the same amount for a 3Room flat in AMK, Yishun.

    We can't have our cakes and eat it.... If you can afford it, buy where you want, how big you want..... if you can't, then make do with what you can afford.
    That a good question.

    Unfortunately, many Singaporeans think otherwise. If they can't really afford, they will find ways and means to get the finances such as borrowing from parents / grandparents. The bottom line is about expectation/perception. Many people believe that convenience, facilities, amenities, etc comes with a premium. As such, they feel that it is worthwhile to buy in mature estates despite that prices are skyrocketed. Secondly, they also feel that the prices in these estates will move up as time passes.

    For example, a friend of mine who bought a 5-room flat at Toa Payoh Central, besides Toa Payoh MRT for $450K++ a few years back. They barely can afford it. They also try to save here and there, cut down on expenses/expenditures, etc in order to finance the loan. Some people said that he was crazy to buy at such a premium. Why not consider Punggol / SengKang, etc which are much cheaper in those days. Today, the value of his flat at Toa Payoh is worth more than $600K++ now.

    Therefore, you can see that whether you can afford it or not is not a question. It is all about expectations / perceptions.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    At this rate, we will probably be staying in Pulau Tekong & Ubin pretty soon and accept that as being okay.
    And the alternatives? Lets find more land in mature estate and start building flats and offer them at 100k. You should be smart enough to know what will happen next.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by USM View Post
    It is all about expectations / perceptions.
    Erm, isn't that called speculation?

    If you can afford it and buy it in the hopes of the value going up in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years and so on (i.e, you have holding power), that's investing.

    For sure there are speculators who lucked out. It's really up to the individual if you want to gamble and willing to get burnt.
    Last edited by Gunbucker; 15th September 2009 at 02:21 PM.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    I think the government is in a very difficult situation.

    On one hand they cannot let the price of private property go too high and create a bubble, on the other hand, they cannot let the hdb prices fall drastically as to anger the 80% of the population who owns a HDB.

  7. #87
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    The alternatives would be to price HDB flats at closer to their actual land and construction cost; and not use artificial terms like "market subsidy" to justify flat prices; or to convince people that flats are "affordable" because you can service it all with your CPF (and end up eating your flat during retirement cos your CPF is zero).

    Do read alternative articles such as the following for a better picture; rather than just relying on the MSM:

    http://temasekreview.com/?p=13123
    http://temasekreview.com/?p=12273
    http://temasekreview.com/?p=12685
    http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/...lly-an-answer/

    Quote Originally Posted by theonlyone View Post
    And the alternatives? Lets find more land in mature estate and start building flats and offer them at 100k. You should be smart enough to know what will happen next.
    Last edited by vince123123; 15th September 2009 at 03:51 PM.

  8. #88
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    The second problem is actually of their own creation, which is why they need to keep propping the prices up exactly to prevent such a situation. Similar to the "Stop at Two" and "Foreign Workers are Essential" lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    I think the government is in a very difficult situation.

    On one hand they cannot let the price of private property go too high and create a bubble, on the other hand, they cannot let the hdb prices fall drastically as to anger the 80% of the population who owns a HDB.
    EDIT: I have located an article which explains it in a way much better than I can, so here it is for those interested:

    http://temasekreview.com/?p=12267
    Last edited by vince123123; 15th September 2009 at 03:51 PM.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunbucker View Post
    Erm, isn't that called speculation?

    If you can afford it and buy it in the hopes of the value going up in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years and so on (i.e, you have holding power), that's investing.

    For sure there are speculators who lucked out. It's really up to the individual if you want to gamble and willing to get burnt.
    I don't think that you know what I am trying to say.

    Speculation is not in my context.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    The alternatives would be to price HDB flats at closer to their actual land and construction cost; and not use artificial terms like "market subsidy" to justify flat prices; or to convince people that flats are "affordable" because you can service it all with your CPF (and end up eating your flat during retirement cos your CPF is zero).

    Do read alternative articles such as the following for a better picture; rather than just relying on the MSM:

    http://temasekreview.com/?p=13123
    http://temasekreview.com/?p=12273
    http://temasekreview.com/?p=12685
    http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/...lly-an-answer/
    No, you don't get it. If you price HDB flat at $1, what will be the outcome?

  11. #91
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Let me ask you, does any of the articles or my posts talk about pricing a HDB flat at S$1?

    Since you enjoy such arguments, then let me ask you "If you price HDB flat at S$1,000,000,000, what will be the outcome?"

    I rest my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by theonlyone View Post
    No, you don't get it. If you price HDB flat at $1, what will be the outcome?

  12. #92

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgo View Post
    The thing about property is this. Pay for only what you can afford. Don't over commit. A rough guide is to finance not more than 30% of your currently salary for your house.
    This is what the accountants will tell you & if you look @ your income, very few adhere to it or rather properties are so expensive that few can afford it. The same too for cars & other luxuries that we desire.

    I can understand TS feeling. We all want a place of our own & the dream house story.

    TS, or anyone @ the moment. Why don't you rent first? Take short 1-2yrs lease & you can jolly well choose the estate/neighbours that you favour & even some old private apartments or condos. Save up the money & wait for the right opportunity to come along. It is very easy to buy & not so easy to sell. Don't forget that you'll need to renovate the house which is easily S$50K these days excluding furniture & appliances.

    Few years ago, I read an article about an investment couple who rents & keep their cash for stocks etc with much higher & faster returns. But do it wisely. Buying a property will not go wrong IMHO.

    I was shopping for an HDB flat @ East Coast few years ago & the prices were so exorbitant that I ended up buying a 10yrs old F/hold apartment near there for 30-40% less & with a covered carpark too!
    Last edited by NineEleven; 15th September 2009 at 07:05 PM.
    "Like Moths, photographers gather at the sight of light" Robert Doisneau
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  13. #93
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Sometimes rental costs more than buying; in terms of monthly payments. Of course it can work for the short term.

    But your last point is astonishing; HDB flats cost more than private property!

    Quote Originally Posted by NineEleven View Post
    This is what the accountants will tell you & if you look @ your income, very few adhere to it or rather properties are so expensive that few can afford it. The same too for cars & other luxuries that we desire.

    I can understand TS feeling. We all want a place of our own & the dream house story.

    TS, or anyone @ the moment. Why don't you rent first? Take short 1-2yrs lease & you can jolly well choose the estate/neighbours that you favour & even some old private apartments or condos. Save up the money & wait for the right opportunity to come along. It is very easy to buy & not so easy to sell. Don't forget that you'll need to renovate the house which is easily S$50K these days excluding furniture & appliances.

    Few years ago, I read an article about an investment couple who rents & keep their cash for stocks etc with much higher & faster returns. But do it wisely. Buying a property will not go wrong IMHO.

    I was shopping for an HDB flat @ East Coast few years ago & the prices were so exorbitant that I ended up buying a 10yrs old F/hold apartment near there for 30-40% less & with a covered carpark too!

  14. #94

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by goon View Post
    Hi all!
    I'm wondering if any of u out there like me who are are hunting for a home but are put off by the current surge in property prices whether it's in the HDB or private market.
    I'm getting married and looking for a new home but the red hot property prices especially the resale HDB market is sky high and I'm wondering if I should wait or take the plunge??
    I know it's a burden shared by all working adult unless yr family is rich but The thought of paying off years of loan for a house here in S'pore is a frightening prospect.
    Are we over-paying especially our pay/salary ratio compared to other developed countries are not/or below the current world standard.
    currently i'm also hunting for house at the east side, went for a lot of viewing around the area, value is ok but the COVsuper high!!!!!!!!

    eg: 30+yrs 4rm val @ 285k sellin at between 320k ~ 350K.....

    i heard some agents saying that now is the " BUBBLE PERIOD" .......
    have you hear anything about this...?

    maybe should consider some factors ( correct me if am wrong )
    1) years of the estate
    2) type of flat
    3) market average
    4) environment of the estate
    5) Condition of the estate
    6) whats your max you can pump out
    7) do you really need to settle down fast
    D.S.L.R

  15. #95
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Wah 65k COV, thats damn high.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Sometimes rental costs more than buying; in terms of monthly payments. Of course it can work for the short term.

    But your last point is astonishing; HDB flats cost more than private property!
    Yes, rental is the way to go when prices are hot & there are much choices too plus the fact that you don't plunge a big amount on the "softwares". That said, when you see a really good deal. Buy fast & the right agent is important too. I've heard of agents screwing up deals.

    Therefore, it is very important to know your pocket & credit rating with your banks. I would say speak to banks first & check "what is the maximum value you have". Then with the knowledge you can shop with confidence. Have the hp no of your loan officer so he or she can check on the value of the said property fast. Never rely on agent's value or dated valuation because you need the actual valuation cross-checked with your credit rating.

    I bought that property within 12hrs & the value has gone up by 50%.

    HDBs in Marine Parade are well above S$500K & 30yrs old with limited privacy. In fact, I was able to find many old but nice condos with facilities for similar prices with some HDBs.

    I have been in business for 20yrs & property is still one of the safest investment.
    "Like Moths, photographers gather at the sight of light" Robert Doisneau
    My Little Port

  17. #97
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Wah seems like a complex affair; nex ttime I know who to look for when I get my priate property!

  18. #98

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by tenchimuyo View Post
    currently i'm also hunting for house at the east side, went for a lot of viewing around the area, value is ok but the COVsuper high!!!!!!!!

    eg: 30+yrs 4rm val @ 285k sellin at between 320k ~ 350K.....

    i heard some agents saying that now is the " BUBBLE PERIOD" .......
    have you hear anything about this...?

    maybe should consider some factors ( correct me if am wrong )
    1) years of the estate
    2) type of flat
    3) market average
    4) environment of the estate
    5) Condition of the estate
    6) whats your max you can pump out
    7) do you really need to settle down fast
    A more precise definition for "Bubble Period" is "Seller's Market".

    I am currently looking for a resale flat in several non mature estates, and the reasonable COV for 3, 4 rooms should be around 15K and 5rm is 20K and Exec Apt is around 25 to 30K. Once in a while, i see a serious financially well off seller who only ask for 5K COV and the deal is closed. First Come First Serve Basis. Wow, that was for a fully renovated 5rm flat in Bukit Batok and the seller is upgrading to condo !!!
    Honestly speaking, apart from those overnite made rich from en-bloc sale, how many buyers are really that cash rich, soon the market will be exhausted and the expectations will go down.

    So if a new listing ask for 30K for a 5 rm for example, probably they will lower their expectations when their valuation is due to expire or buyers proposed COV cannot meet seller's expectation. Flats that are well maintained (READY TO MOVE-IN CONDITION), A1 decor, between 5 to 7 years, unblock living room views, squarish layout, high floors are probably the best sellers in the market right now. A minority of flats which meets the above conditions are SOLD within a few hours of open house, that is, on the first day of viewing.

    I have seen some shabbly condition flats that takes weeks to close the deal i.e. stained bathroom tiles, kitchen cabinets in bad conditions and lots of household items in the flat. So those who plan to sell your flat, do keep your stuff minimal and tidy to create a good image.

    Last edited by StarAlliance; 15th September 2009 at 09:24 PM.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Wah 65k COV, thats damn high.

    ya super high ... unrealistic right...
    another eg: 32yrs 4 'I' corridor unit at high floor, condition old need to fully renov, val 275k sell at 315k

    yet still sold....
    howcome???

    hahahaha... market going crazy.....
    D.S.L.R

  20. #100
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by USM View Post
    That a good question.

    Unfortunately, many Singaporeans think otherwise. If they can't really afford, they will find ways and means to get the finances such as borrowing from parents / grandparents. The bottom line is about expectation/perception. Many people believe that convenience, facilities, amenities, etc comes with a premium. As such, they feel that it is worthwhile to buy in mature estates despite that prices are skyrocketed. Secondly, they also feel that the prices in these estates will move up as time passes.

    For example, a friend of mine who bought a 5-room flat at Toa Payoh Central, besides Toa Payoh MRT for $450K++ a few years back. They barely can afford it. They also try to save here and there, cut down on expenses/expenditures, etc in order to finance the loan. Some people said that he was crazy to buy at such a premium. Why not consider Punggol / SengKang, etc which are much cheaper in those days. Today, the value of his flat at Toa Payoh is worth more than $600K++ now.

    Therefore, you can see that whether you can afford it or not is not a question. It is all about expectations / perceptions.


    Your friend plan ahead and made his/her choice.... now, their flat already worth more than they paid for. I can't afford $450+K, so I brought a house in Woodlands that cost me $112+K.... its now worth around $240-300K. Your friend went through SH*T to pay for their unit... I went through the same SH*T to pay for mine....

    But I'm put off by ppl who goes around complaining that - "Oh.... I want house in good areas that is convenience, with lots of facilities & amenities but can't afford it.... and its all the Govt/Greedy House Owner fault.... they are asking/wanting too high a price"

    If anyone here wants PREMIUM flats.... then be ready to PAY PREMIUM price. If you can't afford PREMIUM price.... then look for something more affordable, like I did & had.

    As its often said in ClubSNAP - You Get What You Paid For - Don't go demanding a L lens if you can't afford it..... just go for the next best thing.
    Last edited by diver-hloc; 16th September 2009 at 12:37 AM.

    Scuba & Father... For Life

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