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Thread: Your views on the current surging property market

  1. #201
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Actually, if HDB flat prices fall, private property prices will also fall; starting from the lowest end private properties. The divide will not get bigger as you have suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Its a complex problem to solve.

    1. They have to maintain a correlation of prices of HDB flats to private property, because if they dont allow HDB prices to escalate, more people will complain that the prices of HDB are being artificially suppressed, the rich get richer and poor get poorer. As a Singaporean, can u accept such a situation ?

    2. They also have to deal with foreigners coming to Singapore and buying HDB @ rock bottom prices. At least now, those who own HDB can sell their flats at high resale px to foreigners and either upgrade to condo or downgrade to smaller flat and get a pile of cash. Again as a Singaporean can u accept if foreigners buy them cheap ?

    3. The 3rd problem is the one closest to the young generation .. how in the world am i going to afford to settle down ? Basically this group will not complain if HDB builds fast enough and sell flats cheap to them. Right now, the government has a pricing formula that links new flats to old flats. The price to market policy sacrifices point (3) to point (1) and (2).

    In my mind, unless a paradigm shift takes place, the problem will be difficult to solve. Everyone complains but no one has offered a concrete solution to the problem .. perhaps there is no practical solution or is there ? Maybe the solution lies in splitting HDB into 2.

    One division operates like now - no change.

    Another division builds and sells flats cheap to those who think they dont want to pay such high price - the caveat being u can only sell it back to HDB at predetermined low prices. HDB can then recycle these and sell it to couples in need of low priced flats. Then whether its 2009 or 2020 or 2050 or 2100, there will always be a flat for people who cannot afford or dont want to pay through the roof. But downside is, down complain about location, dont envy people who took the dive to buy a normal flat and had capital gains after a number of years.

    then it becomes - choose wisely and whatever the outcome, it is your choice and yours alone.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Actually, if HDB flat prices fall, private property prices will also fall; starting from the lowest end private properties. The divide will not get bigger as you have suggested.
    yes .. true, but then private property will become more attractive to foreigners who will come in and buy them in bulk ... do u really want more of singapore being owned by foreigners at cheap prices. If Singapore property prices fall, then they would be cheaper in relation to NY, London, HK and other major cities .. do we really want that as a nation ? We cant buy these properties in other cities as they are so expensive but yet foreigner will buy up singapore properties .

  3. #203

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    There will always be different school of thoughts. One party will like to see rising in property prices vice versa, so who to please? Many people who bought properties in 1996 were burnt because they bought it at very high prices. These group of people will definitely wish to see faster rising in their property values.

    The issue here is the the increased in property prices is too fast. What caused it? The list may not be exhaustive.

    1) Speculation
    2) Influx of PRs / Foreigners
    3) Increase of Demand due to needs

    Again, when we said that the prices have gone up too fast, we also need to know the segments such as mature vs non-mature estates; types of flat, etc. Are you talking about everything or mature estates? What is the magnitude of increased in prices between mature and non-mature estates? There will be always a difference between these 2 because of location, convenience, amenities, etc.

    Incidentally, since Hong Kong and Toyko were classified as expensive cities, did the government publish any data with regards to construction cost, land cost and other related costs?

  4. #204

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    So which is your no brainer answer? (1)?

    We are all saying that the prices are rising too damn fast
    sigh... must spell out no brainer answer. The answer is 2.....

    I am just correcting what you said about rising prices is bad for the nation.

    So I guess u stand corrected that rising prices are good for the nation?? provided that it is in moderation.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by USM View Post

    The issue here is the the increased in property prices is too fast. What caused it? The list may not be exhaustive.

    1) Speculation
    2) Influx of PRs / Foreigners
    3) Increase of Demand due to needs
    I think the main reason u left out is the significantly lower supply of new HDB flats compared to the 90s and early 2000s.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    I think the main reason u left out is the significantly lower supply of new HDB flats compared to the 90s and early 2000s.
    If HDB will to increase the supply just like the 90s and early 2000s, will that solve the problem?

  7. #207
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Its a complex problem to solve.

    1. They have to maintain a correlation of prices of HDB flats to private property, because if they dont allow HDB prices to escalate, more people will complain that the prices of HDB are being artificially suppressed, the rich get richer and poor get poorer. As a Singaporean, can u accept such a situation ?

    2. They also have to deal with foreigners coming to Singapore and buying HDB @ rock bottom prices. At least now, those who own HDB can sell their flats at high resale px to foreigners and either upgrade to condo or downgrade to smaller flat and get a pile of cash. Again as a Singaporean can u accept if foreigners buy them cheap ?

    3. The 3rd problem is the one closest to the young generation .. how in the world am i going to afford to settle down ? Basically this group will not complain if HDB builds fast enough and sell flats cheap to them. Right now, the government has a pricing formula that links new flats to old flats. The price to market policy sacrifices point (3) to point (1) and (2).

    In my mind, unless a paradigm shift takes place, the problem will be difficult to solve. Everyone complains but no one has offered a concrete solution to the problem .. perhaps there is no practical solution or is there ? Maybe the solution lies in splitting HDB into 2.

    One division operates like now - no change.

    Another division builds and sells flats cheap to those who think they dont want to pay such high price - the caveat being u can only sell it back to HDB at predetermined low prices. HDB can then recycle these and sell it to couples in need of low priced flats. Then whether its 2009 or 2020 or 2050 or 2100, there will always be a flat for people who cannot afford or dont want to pay through the roof. But downside is, down complain about location, dont envy people who took the dive to buy a normal flat and had capital gains after a number of years.

    then it becomes - choose wisely and whatever the outcome, it is your choice and yours alone.
    i do agree its not a easy problem to solve... thats why i say u can't solve it 100%... if u ask me, i would think making new flats or building them faster do helps... the current BTO release are already at a price point where most can afford, that why i choose this route... the problem is the waiting time, provided if u manage to get it in the first place. It took me 10 tries till i get it, so it will get my keys probably in 2012... young couples will have to really really plan way ahead if they want to have a flat ready by the time they get married, which is not easy, how do you know the partner is still the right one in 3/4 years time there is a gamble... else buy resale which is subject to the current high prices...

    i myself is already married but no kids yet so not so bad, but my cousin has already 1 kid and 1 is coming soon and her flat is not ready till 2012...

    of course back to the question that the garment cannot just flood the market with new flats and build blindly.... but i think they do odd to look into the real "demand" in the market...
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  8. #208
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    I would say that I didn't make myself clear earlier. I was speaking up against rising prices being too much is being bad for the nation.

    Falling prices was never on my mind.

    I always thought our dispute was whether it was too fast.

    Prices in a normal market (ie not recession or the like) will always rise due to inflation; if you remove all other factors. hence that is the no brainer.

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    sigh... must spell out no brainer answer. The answer is 2.....

    I am just correcting what you said about rising prices is bad for the nation.

    So I guess u stand corrected that rising prices are good for the nation?? provided that it is in moderation.

  9. #209
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Ah, aren't there restrictions against foreigners owning private property? Unless you tell me those has been lifted.

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    yes .. true, but then private property will become more attractive to foreigners who will come in and buy them in bulk ... do u really want more of singapore being owned by foreigners at cheap prices. If Singapore property prices fall, then they would be cheaper in relation to NY, London, HK and other major cities .. do we really want that as a nation ? We cant buy these properties in other cities as they are so expensive but yet foreigner will buy up singapore properties .

  10. #210
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    As well as the shift to market subsidy when pricing new flats.

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    I think the main reason u left out is the significantly lower supply of new HDB flats compared to the 90s and early 2000s.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpot View Post
    of course back to the question that the garment cannot just flood the market with new flats and build blindly.... but i think they do odd to look into the real "demand" in the market...
    "real demand" ? Is the demand inflated by 2nd and 3rd time applicants ?
    Last edited by zero o; 17th September 2009 at 06:15 PM.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Ah, aren't there restrictions against foreigners owning private property? Unless you tell me those has been lifted.
    Me thinks ....

    Foreigners / PR can buy landed and strata landed if they get approval from ministry.
    Foreigners / PR can buy condos
    Foreigners / PR can buy apartments without facilities subject to approval
    PR can buy HDB now

    Not sure about office space or commercial space.

  13. #213
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Ah, aren't there restrictions against foreigners owning private property? Unless you tell me those has been lifted.
    Still the same... Foreigners can ONLY buy condo! Landed unless in sentosa or need approval by MND! No HDB unless PR.

  14. #214
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    Me thinks ....

    Foreigners / PR can buy landed and strata landed if they get approval from ministry.
    Foreigners / PR can buy condos
    Foreigners / PR can buy apartments without facilities subject to approval
    PR can buy HDB now

    Not sure about office space or commercial space.
    Office Space n Commercial, Yes!

  15. #215

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    Office Space n Commercial, Yes!
    do they need a local holding company or they can buy as individual foreigner ?

  16. #216
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by USM View Post
    If HDB will to increase the supply just like the 90s and early 2000s, will that solve the problem?
    No wont solve the problem as not everyone is eligible to buy direct from HDB.

  17. #217

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    No wont solve the problem as not everyone is eligible to buy direct from HDB.
    I thot all singaporean eligible to buy from HDB , just that u have to be married, or buy with a family member or over 35 ?

  18. #218
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    I thot all singaporean eligible to buy from HDB , just that u have to be married, or buy with a family member or over 35 ?
    Ya right but i am tokin abt buying direct from HDB for those who have buy before and with grant / subsidies rate unless pay resale levy.

  19. #219
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Okay, looks like my outdated information was relegated only against sale of landed property.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    Still the same... Foreigners can ONLY buy condo! Landed unless in sentosa or need approval by MND! No HDB unless PR.
    Its Singapore Land Authority.

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