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Thread: Your views on the current surging property market

  1. #181
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Oh its all right, I can more than afford a hut at the moment It was more of informing you to give up your HDB flat and go live in a hut . Lower expectations mah!

    Well... thxs for the informtion....but is pretty useless for me, as I'm already living a simply live.

    I own only what I could afford - House, Camera and such. I don't owe any debt to any Credit Card. My housing loan is well under $500 a month.... with enough in the CPF to last a few years even if I became jobless.... and yes, no car for me.

    If youngest have similar expectation like mine.... they too could afford a flat.... but sadly, most think they deserve a good life without working/paying for it.

    SO, you could 'Play' on the word 'Lower Expectation' as much as you want..... wouldn't change the FACT that - You won't get it.... if you can't afford it - Blaming social, the Govt, the World won't change much.

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  2. #182

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    SO, you could 'Play' on the word 'Lower Expectation' as much as you want..... wouldn't change the FACT that - You won't get it.... if you can't afford it - Blaming social, the Govt, the World won't change much.
    But who is the biggest culprit that push the housing market to higher height?
    Think about it.

  3. #183
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    But who is the biggest culprit that push the housing market to higher height?
    Think about it.

    So again.... All you guys/gals wants to hear is - Govt At Fault -.... ok, you win lor.

    Once any discussion reach a point where Finger Pointing / Witch Hunting / Govt Blaming is all you to hear... then theres no point to carry on.

    This will be my last posts as it is now pointless to said more....

    Like vince123123 said - We Can Agree to Disagree

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  4. #184

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    So again.... All you guys/gals wants to hear is - Govt At Fault -.... ok, you win lor.

    Once any discussion reach a point where Finger Pointing / Witch Hunting / Govt Blaming is all you to hear... then theres no point to carry on.

    This will be my last posts as it is now pointless to said more....

    Like vince123123 said - We Can Agree to Disagree
    Well, this is not about who win or loose in a discussion, I hope you don't see it this way.
    It about:
    1. Sharing and exchange of views.
    2. Identifying the root cause and hopefully it can be fixed.

    Cheers

  5. #185
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    The point I was trying to make repeatedly in many different variations


    Quote Originally Posted by scanner View Post
    But who is the biggest culprit that push the housing market to higher height?
    Think about it.

  6. #186
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    As scanner said, it snot about winnign or losing. But I'm glad you finally realise that the Govt is at Fault for making you have to lower your expectations. Some are happy to lower, others are not; but the question to ask is, who put us in this position to need to do so?


    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    So again.... All you guys/gals wants to hear is - Govt At Fault -.... ok, you win lor.

    Once any discussion reach a point where Finger Pointing / Witch Hunting / Govt Blaming is all you to hear... then theres no point to carry on.

    This will be my last posts as it is now pointless to said more....

    Like vince123123 said - We Can Agree to Disagree

  7. #187
    Moderator diver-hloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    As scanner said, it snot about winnign or losing. But I'm glad you finally realise that the Govt is at Fault for making you have to lower your expectations. Some are happy to lower, others are not; but the question to ask is, who put us in this position to need to do so?
    Incase you miss my point.... I said

    All you guys/gals wants to hear is - Govt At Fault -.... ok, you win lor


    While I don't believe that the Govt is solely at fault... I just find it pointless to debate with ppl who see everything as the Govt fault.... a waste of my time and quite pointless. So, you guys/gals want to win.... then you win lor.

    I'm a practical person.... Blaming/Bit*hing/Complainting won't solve the problem in the Time I need it to be solved. If you need a House in the next few years do you think the policy will be change for you.... do you think house owner will lower their price for you....

    If I need Canon's EF 70-200mm f2.8 IS for F1 and can't afford it.... I go rent or borrow.... or get another lens that is similar but cheaper.... Not sit around and bit*h why Canon sell the Lens so much.... is Canon at fault, are they earning too much profit.... by the time Canon listen to me.... F1 is already over.

    Scuba & Father... For Life

  8. #188
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    I didn't miss your point; if you want to say it, then mean it. Else retract what you said. Saying "you win" is no point. Hence, I prefer to choose to read your statement as an admission that you realise the Govt is at fault. No point to patronise if you dont mean it.

    I guess scanner and I belong to the group who prefers to see long term changes, ie tackling the root cause rather than the symptoms; whilst you are the group who prefers to tackle the symptoms on a short term immediate basis, preferring a shot in the arm to fight the immediate fire; rather than a long term cure. On top of that, you prefer to give yourself the shot in the arm, rather than asking the person who created the pain, to be responsible for it.

    Its okay, I now understand where you are coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by diver-hloc View Post
    Incase you miss my point.... I said

    While I don't believe that the Govt is solely at fault... I just find it pointless to debate with ppl who see everything as the Govt fault.... a waste of my time and quite pointless. So, you guys/gals want to win.... then you win lor.

    I'm a practical person.... Blaming/Bit*hing/Complainting won't solve the problem in the Time I need it to be solved. If you need a House in the next few years do you think the policy will be change for you.... do you think house owner will lower their price for you....

    If I need Canon's EF 70-200mm f2.8 IS for F1 and can't afford it.... I go rent or borrow.... or get another lens that is similar but cheaper.... Not sit around and bit*h why Canon sell the Lens so much.... is Canon at fault, are they earning too much profit.... by the time Canon listen to me.... F1 is already over.
    Last edited by vince123123; 17th September 2009 at 01:10 PM.

  9. #189

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpot View Post
    有钱人
    Now then you know.

  10. #190

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I didn't miss your point; if you want to say it, then mean it. Else retract what you said. Saying "you win" is no point. Hence, I prefer to choose to read your statement as an admission that you realise the Govt is at fault. No point to patronise if you dont mean it.

    I guess scanner and I belong to the group who prefers to see long term changes, ie tackling the root cause rather than the symptoms; whilst you are the group who prefers to tackle the symptoms on a short term immediate basis, preferring a shot in the arm to fight the immediate fire; rather than a long term cure. On top of that, you prefer to give yourself the shot in the arm, rather than asking the person who created the pain, to be responsible for it.

    Its okay, I now understand where you are coming from.
    ??? what are you tackling??? what root cause??? change of government??? other than complaints, I haven't seen a single word of constructive suggestions from you.

    I do think that the government policy of increasing property value is 100% right. That is the aim of every government, increasing the asset value of its citizens. Thanks to ***, our parents can sell of their property in singapore and get a nice detached house in malaysia or Australia. Give credit when credit is due.

    Seriously, u ask 10 people on the streets, whether they want our housing prices to be like malaysia or singapore. I can tell u the majority will choose singapore.

  11. #191

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    ??? what are you tackling??? what root cause??? change of government??? other than complaints, I haven't seen a single word of constructive suggestions from you.

    I do think that the government policy of increasing property value is 100% right. That is the aim of every government, increasing the asset value of its citizens. Thanks to ***, our parents can sell of their property in singapore and get a nice detached house in malaysia or Australia. Give credit when credit is due.

    Seriously, u ask 10 people on the streets, whether they want our housing prices to be like malaysia or singapore. I can tell u the majority will choose singapore.
    Interestingly, when I spoke to all my older friends, colleagues, i.e. anyone who is above 50s have all fully paid their housing loans if they were to buy a flat regardless of types in the 60s to 80s. Now all of them are sitting on huge gains if they were to sell / downgrade because most of their children have married / moved out, etc. Hence, they do not need such a big space. The profits are good enough for their retirement funds.

    Maybe that's the older generations. Back to the present, how many of the younger generations can be like them? Is this the vicious cycle?

  12. #192

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpot View Post
    i assume u r refering to why i comment on agents are making so too much too easily, well not all jobs pays well by just working long hrs, holidays, 24/7 etc... working hard and long hours does not meant u make 15K everytime in every job... the task of the agents happens to work during non working hrs like weekends and weeknights... so if a farmer works 16 hrs a day, 24/7 for the whole yr, do u expect him/she to make 15K per month ? its a tough job i know, its hrs are not friendly i know, but that doesn't warrant u to make 15K a month with the job responsibility of the housing agent...
    Hahah i seriously dont understand u,
    U dont think that an agent Warrants to be earning 15k a mth ???

    So are MPs and Docs n lawyers warranted to be earning 6 digit a mth ?
    is their earning disturbing u in any way or are u just jealous ?

    u can be an agent - no one is stopping u.. I'm more then willing to let u join me if u wan too..

    As for the Farmers ... Do u know who owns Sunkiss oranges ? - It a guy who was a Farmer who started out farming oranges

    Do u noe the guy who owns a wine yard in place called "champagne'
    He was a farmer who grew grapes ...

    they are all where they are today cuz they were good at what they did, Farming - thru hard work.
    Last edited by vinze; 17th September 2009 at 03:28 PM.

  13. #193
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vinze View Post
    Hahah i seriously dont understand u,
    U dont think that an agent Warrants to be earning 15k a mth ???

    So are MPs and Docs n lawyers warranted to be earning 6 digit a mth ?
    is their earning disturbing u in any way or are u just jealous ?

    u can be an agent - no one is stopping u.. I'm more then willing to let u join me if u wan too..

    As for the Farmers ... Do u know who owns Sunkiss oranges ? - It a guy who was a Farmer who started out farming oranges

    Do u noe the guy who owns a wine yard in place called "champagne'
    He was a farmer who grew grapes ...

    they are all where they are today cuz they were good at what they did, Farming - thru hard work.

    agent not for me... i prefer farming...
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  14. #194
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Apparently you missed my earlier post:

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...&postcount=121

    And where's your single word of constructive suggestion?

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    ??? what are you tackling??? what root cause??? change of government??? other than complaints, I haven't seen a single word of constructive suggestions from you.

    I do think that the government policy of increasing property value is 100% right. That is the aim of every government, increasing the asset value of its citizens. Thanks to ***, our parents can sell of their property in singapore and get a nice detached house in malaysia or Australia. Give credit when credit is due.

    Seriously, u ask 10 people on the streets, whether they want our housing prices to be like malaysia or singapore. I can tell u the majority will choose singapore.

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    ??? what are you tackling??? what root cause??? change of government??? other than complaints, I haven't seen a single word of constructive suggestions from you.

    I do think that the government policy of increasing property value is 100% right. That is the aim of every government, increasing the asset value of its citizens. Thanks to ***, our parents can sell of their property in singapore and get a nice detached house in malaysia or Australia. Give credit when credit is due.

    Seriously, u ask 10 people on the streets, whether they want our housing prices to be like malaysia or singapore. I can tell u the majority will choose singapore.
    if u have a property on hand yes its good, but the problem is young ppl want to build their love nest but the prices is getting out of reach... the garment should not avoid the problem and insist on there is enough supply and say its still affordable, maybe right now we have not reach a critial stage yet, but imagine the next generation and after, the property will be super sky high if nothing is done, of cause u can't 100% stop it but at least there is a measure to do so...
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  16. #196

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Apparently you missed my earlier post:

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showp...&postcount=121

    And where's your single word of constructive suggestion?
    ??? I am not the one who is saying that it is not affordable and complaining. I am ok with status quo. As I said, I just need to lower my expectations. 6months ago, I could have gotten a 2200sqft landed. now I got a 1800sqft landed for the same price.

    In your earlier post, all u said was, "hey it isn't my problem"

    and then u are the one who said

    "I guess scanner and I belong to the group who prefers to see long term changes, ie tackling the root cause rather than the symptoms; "

    Until now I still don't know how you are tacking the root cause. BTW, what is the root cause? As I have repeated myself over and over, there are many people who feel that the rising property prices is not a bad thing. u really want singapore property market to be as cheap as Malaysia??

    For that to happen, I think our salaries needs to drop to around Malaysia's standard lor....
    Last edited by alantkh; 17th September 2009 at 04:57 PM.

  17. #197
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Shrug, if I am paid to analyse the problem and come up with a solution, I will and will be able to

    Until then, I don't see anything wrong with voicing out deficiencies and letting those who are actually being paid, to come up with a solution.

    Just as you think rising prices are good, there are those who think rising prices are bad. Let me tell you, I bought my HDB at 385K 5 yrs ago and it is now 500k and I still think rising prices are bad for the nation as a whole. Others are just concerned about their own pockets.

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    ??? I am not the one who is saying that it is not affordable and complaining. I am ok with status quo. As I said, I just need to lower my expectations. 6months ago, I could have gotten a 2200sqft landed. now I got a 1800sqft landed for the same price.

    u are the one who said

    "I guess scanner and I belong to the group who prefers to see long term changes, ie tackling the root cause rather than the symptoms; "

    Until now I still don't know how you are tacking the root cause. BTW, what is the root cause? As I have repeated myself over and over, there are many people who feel that the rising property prices is not a bad thing. u really want singapore property market to be as cheap as Malaysia??

    For that to happen, I think our salaries needs to drop to around Malaysia's standard lor....

  18. #198

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Just as you think rising prices are good, there are those who think rising prices are bad. Let me tell you, I bought my HDB at 385K 5 yrs ago and it is now 500k and I still think rising prices are bad for the nation as a whole. Others are just concerned about their own pockets.
    frankly, your statement is totally wrong. rising property prices is definately good for the nation as a whole provided it is moderate.

    given a choice of

    1) rising super fast
    2) rising moderate
    3) falling moderate
    4) falling super fast

    it is a no brainer answer. When a nation is prospering, the property prices must be rising.

  19. #199
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    So which is your no brainer answer? (1)?

    We are all saying that the prices are rising too damn fast

    Quote Originally Posted by alantkh View Post
    frankly, your statement is totally wrong. rising property prices is definately good for the nation as a whole provided it is moderate.

    given a choice of

    1) rising super fast
    2) rising moderate
    3) falling moderate
    4) falling super fast

    it is a no brainer answer. When a nation is prospering, the property prices must be rising.

  20. #200

    Default Re: Your views on the current surging property market

    Quote Originally Posted by flowerpot View Post
    if u have a property on hand yes its good, but the problem is young ppl want to build their love nest but the prices is getting out of reach... the garment should not avoid the problem and insist on there is enough supply and say its still affordable, maybe right now we have not reach a critial stage yet, but imagine the next generation and after, the property will be super sky high if nothing is done, of cause u can't 100% stop it but at least there is a measure to do so...
    Its a complex problem to solve.

    1. They have to maintain a correlation of prices of HDB flats to private property, because if they dont allow HDB prices to escalate, more people will complain that the prices of HDB are being artificially suppressed, the rich get richer and poor get poorer. As a Singaporean, can u accept such a situation ?

    2. They also have to deal with foreigners coming to Singapore and buying HDB @ rock bottom prices. At least now, those who own HDB can sell their flats at high resale px to foreigners and either upgrade to condo or downgrade to smaller flat and get a pile of cash. Again as a Singaporean can u accept if foreigners buy them cheap ?

    3. The 3rd problem is the one closest to the young generation .. how in the world am i going to afford to settle down ? Basically this group will not complain if HDB builds fast enough and sell flats cheap to them. Right now, the government has a pricing formula that links new flats to old flats. The price to market policy sacrifices point (3) to point (1) and (2).

    In my mind, unless a paradigm shift takes place, the problem will be difficult to solve. Everyone complains but no one has offered a concrete solution to the problem .. perhaps there is no practical solution or is there ? Maybe the solution lies in splitting HDB into 2.

    One division operates like now - no change.

    Another division builds and sells flats cheap to those who think they dont want to pay such high price - the caveat being u can only sell it back to HDB at predetermined low prices. HDB can then recycle these and sell it to couples in need of low priced flats. Then whether its 2009 or 2020 or 2050 or 2100, there will always be a flat for people who cannot afford or dont want to pay through the roof. But downside is, down complain about location, dont envy people who took the dive to buy a normal flat and had capital gains after a number of years.

    then it becomes - choose wisely and whatever the outcome, it is your choice and yours alone.

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