ADVICE NEEDED : Ext. Flash for 300D

[kst]

Hi,

I recently bought the 300D and currently using 420ex from my
previous cam (G2).

However, due to lack of FEC on 300D/420ex, I have quite a few of
underexposure photos. I know there is a FEC hack - but it's not
convenient since you need a computer to change it.

Hence, I'm looking into selling my 420ex and get an alternative
3rd party ext. flash for my 300D.

Here's my requirements :

1. At least as powerful as 420ex - or at least powerful enough for
bounce flash.

2. Able to tilt vertically and horizontally.

3. Has FEC.

4. Has auto and manual mode.

5. Preferably smaller and lighter.

6. Budget : less than $200

Please help me by recommending a 3rd party flash which will meet
my above requirements.

Any advice will be appreciated.


THANKS !

[blurblock]

Originally Posted by kst Hi, I recently bought the 300D and currently using 420ex from my previous cam (G2). However, due to lack of FEC on 300D/420ex, I have quite a few of underexposure photos. I know there is a FEC hack - but it's not convenient since you need a computer to change it. Hence, I'm looking into selling my 420ex and get an alternative 3rd party ext. flash for my 300D. Here's my requirements : 1. At least as powerful as 420ex - or at least powerful enough for bounce flash. 2. Able to tilt vertically and horizontally. 3. Has FEC. 4. Has auto and manual mode. 5. Preferably smaller and lighter. 6. Budget : less than $200 Please help me by recommending a 3rd party flash which will meet my above requirements. Any advice will be appreciated. THANKS !

With that budget and that power you required. I sincerely doubt there is anything to fit the bill ...... however, another $130 more you can get a sigma 500 DG Super with will fit the bill properly.

But it's size is almost the same as a 550ex

[jeff49er]

Under expose? Do you have any pic to show?

[SpitFir3]

look no futher...FEC on 300D?..Sigma Super DG 500. hmmmm but on that budget..try looking for second hand..but you still need to increase your budget.

[kst]

Thanks for the responses so far !

Okie - looks like I need to reduce my requirement.


I thought the Sigma 500 DG Super is more equivalent to 550ex ?

What if I don't need it as powerful as 550ex ?

Anything near 420ex will do.


What about Metz 54MZ3 or Metz 32MZ1 ?

To be frank, I don't use flash a lot - hence I think my current
420ex is also an overkill.

THANKS AGAIN !

[jeff49er]

Seriously I dun really have such a prob . My 420 Ex is good enough for the moment and I do lots of outdoor shoots

[PLRBEAR]

Originally Posted by kst Thanks for the responses so far ! Okie - looks like I need to reduce my requirement. I thought the Sigma 500 DG Super is more equivalent to 550ex ? What if I don't need it as powerful as 550ex ? Anything near 420ex will do. What about Metz 54MZ3 or Metz 32MZ1 ? To be frank, I don't use flash a lot - hence I think my current 420ex is also an overkill. THANKS AGAIN !

Keep the 420.

[chriszzz]

Originally Posted by kst Thanks for the responses so far ! Okie - looks like I need to reduce my requirement. I thought the Sigma 500 DG Super is more equivalent to 550ex ? What if I don't need it as powerful as 550ex ? Anything near 420ex will do. What about Metz 54MZ3 or Metz 32MZ1 ? To be frank, I don't use flash a lot - hence I think my current 420ex is also an overkill. THANKS AGAIN !

Is your underexposure consistent ? If it is, just reprogram the 300D ( via the hacks ) to increase FEC permanently. That will solve your problem without spending a cent. However, underexposure is NOT caused by a underpowered flash, because your 420 is already very powerful. It's caused by an error in the flash metering, which can be caused by incompatibilities, bug in the firmware, or just user error. Changing to a 3rd party flash without understanding the cause of the problem will not fix it : you'll just have the same problem again after spending $200.

You have to understand how ETTL behaves to troubleshoot if its a mis-use of ETTL or a real problem. Have you tried using flash exposure lock to get more accurate flash exposure ? If after using FEL your exposure improves noticeably, then there's nothing wrong with your equipment.

For a ETTL capable flash similar to the 420EX ( ie, without any manual controls ), you can try the Sigma 500 DG ST ( not the Super ). This is similar to the Super, but without the manual controls. But I don't think this is the root of your problem because there's *probably* nothing wrong with your 420 in the first place.

[kst]

Guys, guys, guys,

Thanks for the detailed replies, but I have already know about those info
and I have done my homework - I got other reasons to downgrade from
420ex. Maybe a more valid reason is that with 300D and lower (or none)
noise at higher ISO - I found that I'm using less and less of my 420ex.
Hence, it's too ex a flash just to be laying around. So, I decide to get
a cheaper flash (for occasional use) and with the extra $$$, get a
50mm f/1.8.

In order not to OT too much, let's assume I'm flashless now and I need to
get one for my 300D and here's my updated requirements :

1. Powerful enough for bounce flash.

2. Able to tilt vertically and horizontally.

3. Has FEC.

4. Has auto and manual mode.

5. Preferably smaller and lighter.

6. Budget : less than $200


So, which flash should I narrow down to ?

Still waiting for comments on the Metz 54MZ3 or Metz 32MZ1.

THANKS !

[Ah Pao]

A brand new Metz 54MZ3 costs $500++, and is not smaller and lighter than the 420EX. So count this flash not able to fulfil your requirements.

[imaginary_number]

Metz 32mz1 would suffice for you, imo. It's <$200 and packs decent power for the average user.

[kst]

Ah Pao, thanks for the info - I'm not aware 54MZ3 is selling at that price - I will
take it off my list.

imaginary_number, I assume you use 32mz1 yourself - is it sufficient for
bounce flash ? does it has FEC ?

[MatthewSCL]

Originally Posted by chriszzz Is your underexposure consistent ? If it is, just reprogram the 300D ( via the hacks ) to increase FEC permanently. That will solve your problem without spending a cent.

INteresting....can explain more in depth? hack???? How???

i think i am having the under exposure problem also...

[kst]

Originally Posted by MatthewSCL INteresting....can explain more in depth? hack???? How??? i think i am having the under exposure problem also...

It's done via a freeware - you need to download the freeware, connect
your 300D to your PC via USB and use the freeware to change the FEC.

As you can see, it's not that convenient.

Here's the link to the freeware in dpreview forum :

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=6729650

Hope it helps.

[chriszzz]

Originally Posted by kst Guys, guys, guys, Thanks for the detailed replies, but I have already know about those info and I have done my homework - I got other reasons to downgrade from 420ex. Maybe a more valid reason is that with 300D and lower (or none) noise at higher ISO - I found that I'm using less and less of my 420ex. Hence, it's too ex a flash just to be laying around. So, I decide to get a cheaper flash (for occasional use) and with the extra $$$, get a 50mm f/1.8.

Maybe you didn't mean it, but you sound very condescending. You sound like a manager talking to his subordinates ( "guys guys guys, we need to work together to raise productivity..." kind of tone ).

In the first place, you mentioned that you have problems with underexposure caused by your 420 having no FEC. This was what caused people to put in time and effort to help you resolve your problem without unnecessary expenses. Turns out this was not your problem at all. And to use this tone with us like we're little boys. Sheesh.

[Bobo]

hi Kst, I think you should really keep your 420ex.

I used to have under expose shots with my 420ex initially. Then in used the FEC hack and set it to +2/3. I used Av most of the time. Try to play around with your settings. Recently I used M (manual mode) to take some Christmas lighting along Orchard Rd, to my amaze the output was amazing!! BTW was using 420ex as a bounce flash, attached a bounce card bought from fellow snapper Sulhan.

[mandude303]

Originally Posted by chriszzz Is your underexposure consistent ? If it is, just reprogram the 300D ( via the hacks ) to increase FEC permanently. That will solve your problem without spending a cent. However, underexposure is NOT caused by a underpowered flash, because your 420 is already very powerful. It's caused by an error in the flash metering, which can be caused by incompatibilities, bug in the firmware, or just user error. Changing to a 3rd party flash without understanding the cause of the problem will not fix it : you'll just have the same problem again after spending $200. You have to understand how ETTL behaves to troubleshoot if its a mis-use of ETTL or a real problem. Have you tried using flash exposure lock to get more accurate flash exposure ? If after using FEL your exposure improves noticeably, then there's nothing wrong with your equipment. For a ETTL capable flash similar to the 420EX ( ie, without any manual controls ), you can try the Sigma 500 DG ST ( not the Super ). This is similar to the Super, but without the manual controls. But I don't think this is the root of your problem because there's *probably* nothing wrong with your 420 in the first place.

I agree. Most if not all exposure errors is due to a lack of understanding of how the technology works, aka human error. Modern metering system works with a preset of parameters, and understanding how it works will help you in determining the right compensation when necessary. This skills are honed during the film SLR days. Digital does previews, but this also gives its users a lot to complaint first rather than understand first.

Not that I am calling the original poster dumb, but I was dumber then.

See next post.

[mandude303]

Whether it's a bright summer day or a moonlit room, EOS Speedlites emit just the right amount of light to illuminate subject and background perfectly. When the camera is set to Full Auto Mode (Green Zone) or "P", the EOS and Speedlite begin working together. The shooting conditions are evaluated as soon as the shutter button is pressed halfway and the appropriate aperture and shutter speed are set automatically. With EOS cameras featuring the AIM system*, flash exposure control is linked to the active focusing point for optimum exposure of the subject.

*An abbreviation for "Advanced Integrated Multi-point Control System," AIM is Canon's original multi-point autofocusing and metering system which links evaluative metering, partial metering and flash metering to the active focusing point. It enables the user to concentrate on composition and take pictures more easily without having to first place the subject at the center for AF lock.

---------Key Features---------
Evaluative Through-the-Lens Mode (E-TTL)
========================================
E-TTL (prestored evaluative through-the-lens flash exposure control) is a new flash mode that reads through the lens, but not off the film. Introduced for the first time in 1995, E-TTL is currently available on both with the newer EOS Digital Rebel/300D and certain film SLR cameras exclusively when used with Speedlites 550EX or 420EX. Utilizing a preflash fired after the shutter button has been fully depressed but before the camera's reflex mirror goes up, E-TTL uses the camera's evaluative metering sensor to analyze and compare ambient light exposure values with illumination reflected from the subject by the preflash. This data is used to calculate and store the flash output required for optimum exposure of the main subject (identified by the autofocus system), while maintaining a subtle balance between foreground and background. Though transparent to the user, E-TTL represents Canon's most advanced flash
exposure control system to date.

Advanced Through-the-Lens Mode (A-TTL)
======================================
The predecessor to E-TTL, A-TTL (Advanced Through-the-Lens) is used with Speedlite 540 EZ when set for direct flash in the camera's Program mode. (TTL flash exposure control is available at other times.) Like E-TTL, A-TTL reads through the lens and concentrates its sensitivity on the area of the picture covered by the active focusing point. Unlike E-TTL, A-TTL controls flash exposure with a dedicated sensor that reads flash illumination reflected from the surface of the film during exposure. A-
TTL also uses a preflash, but unlike E-TTL, the preflash is used to calculate an aperture value based on the distance that light must travel from the flash to the subject. The camera compares the distance-based aperture data to the ambient-based aperture data calculated by the camera's normal metering system, and selects the smaller aperture value of the two. This method ensures accurate exposure of the subject in any lighting condition. Speedlites equipped with A-TTL are fully compatible with all EOS cameras.

Flash Exposure Lock (FEL)
=========================
FE Lock (Flash Exposure Lock) provides an AE lock function for flash photography. FE Lock takes advantage of the camera's AIM system and partial metering capability to isolate flash readings to a small part of the picture area. With FE Lock, the Speedlite 550EX preflash fires when the camera's AE lock button is depressed, storing AF and metering data for up to 16 seconds. This provides enough time for adjustments: Not only can the shot be recomposed, but the background exposure can also be altered for maximum creative control. FE lock is extremely useful when you wish to place the main subject in a part of the picture area that is not covered by one of the three focusing points. It can also eliminate potential exposure
errors caused by unwanted reflections from highly reflective surfaces like windows or mirrors.

Flash Exposure Compensation
===========================
Flash exposure compensation adjusts the level of illumination provided by the flash, and is therefore an important method of creative control for all kinds of flash photography. It's particularly effective for fine-tuning the balance between foreground and background exposure during fill-in flash, but it can also be effective to compensate for extremely bright or dark tones in the subject. Built into Speedlite
550EX (up to +/- 3 steps in 1/3 step increments), flash exposure compensation is also built into both the newer digital SLR cameras and some film SLRs.

[mpenza]

Originally Posted by kst Ah Pao, thanks for the info - I'm not aware 54MZ3 is selling at that price - I will take it off my list. imaginary_number, I assume you use 32mz1 yourself - is it sufficient for bounce flash ? does it has FEC ?

There's only a 32Z1 (the M stands for motorised zoom which is lacking on the 32Z1. There's a 32MZ3 with motorised zoom). 32Z1 use automatic modes. FEC is achieved by varying the aperture settings on the camera different from the setting on the flash.