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Thread: Crop factor is a hindrance?

  1. #41

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Hi guys, i got things to ask and clarify. 1.6x crop factor or 1.5x crop factor. Does it actually magnify the image?
    Using the same lens on a dx or and fx body. With the same focal length, it gives u 2 different size of the subject?
    Or its jus the FOV of the sensor. Confused.
    D80

  2. #42

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChenGuy View Post
    Hi guys, i got things to ask and clarify. 1.6x crop factor or 1.5x crop factor. Does it actually magnify the image?
    Using the same lens on a dx or and fx body. With the same focal length, it gives u 2 different size of the subject?
    Or its jus the FOV of the sensor. Confused.
    Did you bother to search? You'll realize we had this discussion JUST EARLIER TODAY!!!!

    It DOES NOT magnify the image. It just auto-crops from the sensor; your concept of "FOV of the sensor" is correct.
    Alpha

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChenGuy View Post
    Hi guys, i got things to ask and clarify. 1.6x crop factor or 1.5x crop factor. Does it actually magnify the image?
    Using the same lens on a dx or and fx body. With the same focal length, it gives u 2 different size of the subject?
    Or its jus the FOV of the sensor. Confused.
    In fact both gives u the same focal length but for DX cos sensor is smaller, therefore it looks more tele than FX.

    So a 50mm lens on FX will give u 75mm equivalent on DX.
    Canon EOS 5D, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 50 f/1.2 L, 70-300 f/4-5.6 L IS, 600EX-RT. Sigma 12-24 f/4.5-5.6 EX.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    "Crop factor" was a hindrance couple of years back when there are no ultra-wides around. But with the introduction of the ultrawides by OEM and third parties, you could use a camera like 500D just like a full frame with access to the same "focal length equivalent", barring the Sigma 12-24 and some fisheye lenses.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChenGuy View Post
    Hi guys, i got things to ask and clarify. 1.6x crop factor or 1.5x crop factor. Does it actually magnify the image?
    Using the same lens on a dx or and fx body. With the same focal length, it gives u 2 different size of the subject?
    Or its jus the FOV of the sensor. Confused.
    Say you have a 50mm lens mounted on a 1.6x crop camera and a 80mm mounted on a full frame camera. A subject shot from the same distance from both cameras will look the same except for depth of field where the 80mm will be thinner.

    And if you mount the 50mm lens on the full frame and shoot the same subject from the same distance, the subject will be "smaller" in the picture. But if you crop in by "1.6x", the pic will be the same as the same as that taken by the 1.6x crop camera.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeiPiGu View Post
    Crop factor do not give you any extra reach, please leh.
    "extra reach" in inverted commas.

    sorry, meant it my way, similarly to rashkae.

    merely meaning a narrower FOV...

    Pentax K-x

  7. #47
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChenGuy View Post
    Hi guys, i got things to ask and clarify. 1.6x crop factor or 1.5x crop factor. Does it actually magnify the image?
    Using the same lens on a dx or and fx body. With the same focal length, it gives u 2 different size of the subject?
    Or its jus the FOV of the sensor. Confused.
    Why is it a hindrance?

    I find it a good thing, esp for those with lower budgets. A poorer performing lens with only good centre sharpness and moderate corner sharpness would be better matched to a DX body than a FX one where the faults would be highlighted.

    With FX, you'd need GOOD glass to match or you'll find loads of issues with the corners.
    Michael Lim
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Why is it a hindrance?

    I find it a good thing, esp for those with lower budgets. A poorer performing lens with only good centre sharpness and moderate corner sharpness would be better matched to a DX body than a FX one where the faults would be highlighted.

    With FX, you'd need GOOD glass to match or you'll find loads of issues with the corners.

    then someone will tell you, he can shoot the exact same scene with the same lens with FF and cropped to the exact same picture with better quality because of the DR advantage

  9. #49
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    What is "DR advantage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by scaredcloud View Post
    then someone will tell you, he can shoot the exact same scene with the same lens with FF and cropped to the exact same picture with better quality because of the DR advantage

  10. #50

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    What is "DR advantage"?
    dynamic range..

    bigger sensor usually have better dr...

  11. #51

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by mindfulness View Post
    it benefits at the longest zoom but at the widest zoom, dun think it is as wide it should be
    There isn't really any 'as wide as it should be'. 14-15mm was already stretching it (technologically) during film days in terms of wideness. Its only recently with modern lens design that rectilinear lenses less than 15mm (aft crop) are more common. In fact 28mm was generally considered wide for film (approx 17mm on x1.6 crop).

    With new digital lenses like the 10-20mm, 11-17mm, APS-C users have in general already 'got back' the wideness of the old 35mm format. Of course the catch is that now there are FF 12-24mm so in fact the old 35mm format managed to get a bit wider

  12. #52
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by scaredcloud View Post
    then someone will tell you, he can shoot the exact same scene with the same lens with FF and cropped to the exact same picture with better quality because of the DR advantage
    Then I'd say, go ahead lor... why need to waste the money and time doing so
    Michael Lim
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  13. #53

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Meh


    I think i'm missing something here with the crop censor.

    When someone says, if i'm shooting a Nikon 50mm f/1.8 (which is a fx lens correct?) on a DX sensor, i will get a 75mm reach. But when i compared images taken with a DX lens, D90 kit at 50mm, both images are exactly the same. Taken on D90.

    I understand the point about DX sensor cropping off the edge, it's like a square being cut from a circle analogy. But eh? Confused already.

    So to better state, DX sensors will auto crop all photos, so shots taken on a Fx camera and shots taken on Dx camera with a Nikon 50mm f/1.8 will look different. The Fx sensor will capture more stuff.


    Is this clearer? All technically speaking, all lens, inclusive of DX lens (eg, nikon 18-105 DX, is actually 27-167 on 35mm film/Fx). Which means DX lens are just cost cutting and is equivalent to the Fx version of the lens, just that they project less light/Fov



    Correct / Wrong?
    Last edited by Complex13717421; 6th September 2009 at 07:31 PM.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    After spending some moments thinking about it more,

    Is it correct to say that when nikon says it's producing DX lens, it's actually just cost cutting. Because due to the tradition of lens making, to create a 50mm lens for a DX sensor would require a 33.33mm lens.

    So if we want to take the EXACT same picture with no cropping, 50mm on FX = 33.33mm on DX.


    The reason why nikon doesn't release 33.33mm lens market as 50mm DX lens is because it will confuse users since they have a ton of FX lens floating around?

  15. #55

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex13717421 View Post
    After spending some moments thinking about it more,

    Is it correct to say that when nikon says it's producing DX lens, it's actually just cost cutting. Because due to the tradition of lens making, to create a 50mm lens for a DX sensor would require a 33.33mm lens.

    So if we want to take the EXACT same picture with no cropping, 50mm on FX = 33.33mm on DX.


    The reason why nikon doesn't release 33.33mm lens market as 50mm DX lens is because it will confuse users since they have a ton of FX lens floating around?
    DX lenses are probably cheaper to produce because the image circle is smaller. but what has the focal length got to do with it? shorter length = cheaper to make? then uwa lens shld be dirt cheap.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Focal length has nothing to do with it.

    The image circle for FX lenses is larger then does in the DX lenses.

    They are also cheaper due to build quality.

    Currently most FX lenses are metal whereas most DX lenses are made of plastic.
    Pentax K-x

  17. #57

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex13717421 View Post
    After spending some moments thinking about it more,

    Is it correct to say that when nikon says it's producing DX lens, it's actually just cost cutting. Because due to the tradition of lens making, to create a 50mm lens for a DX sensor would require a 33.33mm lens.
    Nope. The focal length is still 50mm. The difference is, since you don't need the full-sized image circle, nikon can use less glass, make the elements smaller, use cheaper materials and thus cut costs. But the focal length is still the same.
    Alpha

  18. #58
    Senior Member darrrrrrrrrr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    the size of the sensor only affects the field/angle of view you get out of a certain focal length.. it does not change or "multiply" the focal length.

    a 50mm lens remains a 50mm lens regardless of the format it's used on (DX, FX or even medium format) as the focal length is an optical property of the lens itself. that's why when u compared the prime lens to the kit zoom at 50mm you get the same angle of view.

    if you mounted a "designed for DX" 50mm lens on a full-frame sensor you'd get the same picture as a FX 50mm lens, apart from very terrible vignetting, as the image circle of the DX lens is smaller than the FX sensor.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    I still dont understand why spend time wondering if the "extra Reach" on crop sensor is true or not. Just buy a camera that suit your budget and style of photography and be happy with it.


    If you shoot more on the wide side, get a FF or close to it like a 1.3X crop (canon 1 series). If you dont really shoot wides, a 1.6x crop will do if you have budget concern. End of day, its the final result that counts.

    I seldom shoot wides but ocassionally I do and my 17-40 on my 1D3 serve me well, just that I dont even need to use till 17mm. Just factor in your built in zoom.. your legs to move further away if possible.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Crop factor is a hindrance?

    Crop sensor a hindrance? so does the viewfinder crop factor then.

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