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Thread: Question on Metering

  1. #1
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Question Question on Metering

    If I am shooting with my camera in full manual and my flash is also set to Manual mode too. Would the type of metering (Matrix, spot, center-weighted, etc) still affect the outcome of my image?

    I was asking this because most of the time I am shooting in full manual mode, and changing the metering doesn't seem to affect my shots.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Only if you're using higher ISOs and adjusting the exposure for ambient light.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    it doesn't because u probably have cut out most of the ambient light with your manual settings.

    if u shoot in av mode and intentionally spot meter at a place where u know it will screw up the overall exposure, u will see a difference in the pic. but u need to expose for the whole scene without flash.
    Last edited by flipfreak; 19th August 2009 at 12:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by Dream Merchant View Post
    Only if you're using higher ISOs and adjusting the exposure for ambient light.
    Quote Originally Posted by flipfreak View Post
    it doesn't because u probably have cut out most of the ambient light with your manual settings.
    My ISO & focusing is also fixed (not auto). In manual mode there is no exposure compensation.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    basically, your flash acts as your main source of light. doesnt matter what metering mode u use because the output from your flash will be the same. you have also fixed the settings on your camera because u are shooting in manual mode.

    1 + 1 = 2

    u have taken out the other variants already with it unless u have exposed for the scene without flash and using Av mode.

    then how u meter can make a difference even if your flash is in manual power setting.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    The metering mode will not directly affect the results but because you will adjust the shutter speed/aperture based on the readings taken from the selected metering mode, your shots will get indirectly affected.

    Eg. In a backlit situation. Morning.

    Scenario 1

    Evaluative Metering, Flash Power 1/2, Shutter 1/800, Aperture f4. Meter reads neutral EV.

    Result exposes both background and subject decently.

    Scenario 2

    Spot Metering on subject face, Flash Power 1/2, Shutter 1/200, Aperture f4. Meter reads neutral EV.

    Background over-exposed, subject over-exposed.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    When you set the camera to M (Manual) Mode, you could set the Aperture and
    Shutter speed, right? You are actually defining the exposure of the image manually.
    Whatever you set on the metering type would not make a difference.

    It is only when you set to AV (Aperture Priority) or TV (Speed Priority), the metering comes
    into play to determine the exposure of the image. As in how it determines the exposure,
    like you mentioned earlier; it depends on whether the type of metering you set (Spot,
    Partial, Evaluative, Center-weighted).. Bear in mind that you are using the natural /
    surrounding light for exposure..

    While fill flash for exposure, it is another story all together.. When you set it to auto,
    your camera is using ETTL-II to determine the amount of flash to output. For ETTL-II
    "calculation", distance of the subject (focused point) is used too.. When you set it to
    Manual mode, you are now determining the amount of flash to fire..

    Hope I got the facts right..

  8. #8

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    When both flash and camera are on M mode, the meter still works just like in M mode without a flash. The meter measures ambient light for adequate exposure without flash.

    This is why this method is useful for adding slight fill and catch-light during day portraiture shooting.

    For strong fill one will require precise flash metering such as the use of FE-Lock/light-meter/trial & error.
    Last edited by surrephoto; 19th August 2009 at 12:42 AM.

  9. #9
    Deregistered shaoken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Metering

    From my understanding, the light metering modes are only effective when flash is not in use.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    In manual mode there is no exposure compensation.

    You do not need it in Manual mode as you have full control of the cam parameter A, S, ISO

    In A and S camera control one of the parameter, that is why you need exposure compensation function to command camera to expose differently from what cam has metered

  11. #11
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    If I am shooting with my camera in full manual and my flash is also set to Manual mode too. Would the type of metering (Matrix, spot, center-weighted, etc) still affect the outcome of my image?

    I was asking this because most of the time I am shooting in full manual mode, and changing the metering doesn't seem to affect my shots.
    When your camera in manual mode, means you set the ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed yourself. so the camera meter only give you indication, you decide what combination of exposure setting to use.

    and When your flash in manual mode, mean the flash does not following the instruction from the camera meter, or the sensor in the flash unit to output the flash power automatically, so you have to decide what is the flash output to set, full power? half power? minimum power? or somewhere in between. How to determind how much power to set? you can: #1 use a handheld flash meter, #2, use the GN and distance and do calculation, #3, by experience, #4, by trial and error.

    so the camera meter is only give you the recommendation exposure setting of ambient lights, according to the metering mode. YOU have decide the combination of camera exposure setting and flash output to use for giving the result you want.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    My ISO & focusing is also fixed (not auto). In manual mode there is no exposure compensation.
    there is, when you base it on the meter.. but it does the metering assuming there is no flash.

  13. #13
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Metering

    btw, when you on auto or p or a or s mode with flash.
    the camera meter tell the camera what ISO/Aperture/Shutter Speed to use, depend on what mode you select.
    and the camera ONLY tell the flash how much power to deliver.
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  14. #14
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    My ISO & focusing is also fixed (not auto). In manual mode there is no exposure compensation.
    incorrect, the is exposure compensation in Manual Mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by chalib View Post
    You do not need it in Manual mode as you have full control of the cam parameter A, S, ISO

    In A and S camera control one of the parameter, that is why you need exposure compensation function to command camera to expose differently from what cam has metered
    the use of exposure compensation in Manual Mode is to override the camera metering, let the camera meter bias to a predetermine parameter. for example, I want all these series of image to under by one stop, so I set the exposure compensation -1, so when I meter accordingly and a exposure, all my images is under by one stop, which I want it intend to be.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post

    the use of exposure compensation in Manual Mode is to override the camera metering, let the camera meter bias to a predetermine parameter. for example, I want all these series of image to under by one stop, so I set the exposure compensation -1, so when I meter accordingly and a exposure, all my images is under by one stop, which I want it intend to be.
    Thks for the correction

  16. #16
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Thanks guys, so in other words if I continue to use mainly manual mode(s), the different type metering is basically just a LCD scale for my reference only.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    Thanks guys, so in other words if I continue to use mainly manual mode(s), the different type metering is basically just a LCD scale for my reference only.
    you have to factor in the flash output as well..

    that, no one can really help , it is experience.

    alternatively, i *think* (now, i am just basing this on what i have seen being done, so don't take this wholesale as truth) you can use a handheld meter to take the accurate exposure when the flash fires, and adjust from there. can play with iso to vary the relative exposure of subject to background (assuming portrait).

  18. #18
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    you have to factor in the flash output as well..

    that, no one can really help , it is experience.

    alternatively, i *think* (now, i am just basing this on what i have seen being done, so don't take this wholesale as truth) you can use a handheld meter to take the accurate exposure when the flash fires, and adjust from there. can play with iso to vary the relative exposure of subject to background (assuming portrait).
    Thanks Bro, was using mainly bounced/diffused manual flash (I know it is abit wasted for 580EX2) for quite a number of my shots. With all the Aperture/Shutter Speed/ISO/Flash/Focus Section in manual mode, I guess the type of metering (matrix/spot/center/etc) does not matter to me most of the time.

    There was some bros asking why do I use mostly M instead of A/S/P, for answer is that it offered me the most control of my shots during a photo shoot rather than leaving the camera to decided for me. Personally, I found this method work well with my Canon 18-200mm IS lens.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    Thanks Bro, was using mainly bounced/diffused manual flash (I know it is abit wasted for 580EX2) for quite a number of my shots. With all the Aperture/Shutter Speed/ISO/Flash/Focus Section in manual mode, I guess the type of metering (matrix/spot/center/etc) does not matter to me most of the time.

    There was some bros asking why do I use mostly M instead of A/S/P, for answer is that it offered me the most control of my shots during a photo shoot rather than leaving the camera to decided for me. Personally, I found this method work well with my Canon 18-200mm IS lens.
    Actually a sound understand of each individual metering mode combined with Aperture Priority can produce equivalent results as well.

    You can easily use the EV compensation combined with E-TTL flash compensation and FE lock to produce the exact balance of flash/fill and ambient that you want.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Question on Metering

    Just wondering. I saw A, S, ISO & exposure compensation being mentioned as a tweak combi.

    How does white balancing comes into picture?
    When I see that the color is not right?
    Last edited by Lawlezz; 21st August 2009 at 01:47 AM.
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