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Thread: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    You should not think the camera that makes the photo, it is the photographer that makes the photo.
    And you dont need DSLR.

    Photography can be learnt even with P&S.
    Photographer must learn the limitation of each camera on hand and work within the perimiter of that limitation rather than push it over the limit.

    There are plenty to learn with static display or landscape / night photography.

    You guys can play with cardboard and make your own "studio" equipment. Just make sure all light bulb are the same and then you can tweak white balance later. You dont have to buy expensive studio flashes.

    Of course you have to manage the expectation from other sponsors and not let them to push you guys to commit to take picture of school sport event and want you guys to produce newspaper like photos, because those are taken with easily equipments with 5 digit price.

    As for software there are plenty of free software to use.

    And dont limit yourself to photography. With photography you can make stop motion animation, interesting scrap book, etc. Play around with simple yet creative photo editing. Dont aim for image manipulation standard like those used in movies now.

    When I was in high school i just use my ricoh p&s using film and took candid photo of us in class, with different teachers, and then make a comic based on those photos. Each teachers have their own stock phrase and I make buble speech of those and simply glue it on top of the 3R prints. Yes - that time 4R prints are quite expensive!

    Learn to work within limitations, cos in live that is what we all have to do.

  2. #42
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    I seriously don't think you can learn about aperture and shutter speed on a P&S with no manual functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by aryanto View Post
    You should not think the camera that makes the photo, it is the photographer that makes the photo.
    And you dont need DSLR.

    Photography can be learnt even with P&S.
    Photographer must learn the limitation of each camera on hand and work within the perimiter of that limitation rather than push it over the limit.

    There are plenty to learn with static display or landscape / night photography.

    You guys can play with cardboard and make your own "studio" equipment. Just make sure all light bulb are the same and then you can tweak white balance later. You dont have to buy expensive studio flashes.

    Of course you have to manage the expectation from other sponsors and not let them to push you guys to commit to take picture of school sport event and want you guys to produce newspaper like photos, because those are taken with easily equipments with 5 digit price.

    As for software there are plenty of free software to use.

    And dont limit yourself to photography. With photography you can make stop motion animation, interesting scrap book, etc. Play around with simple yet creative photo editing. Dont aim for image manipulation standard like those used in movies now.

    When I was in high school i just use my ricoh p&s using film and took candid photo of us in class, with different teachers, and then make a comic based on those photos. Each teachers have their own stock phrase and I make buble speech of those and simply glue it on top of the 3R prints. Yes - that time 4R prints are quite expensive!

    Learn to work within limitations, cos in live that is what we all have to do.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I seriously don't think you can learn about aperture and shutter speed on a P&S with no manual functions.
    but got many many p&s models with manual functions these days.

    that said, there is always something to learn.. i think no one's asking anyone to just use p&s to learn, just that IF one is stuck with a p&s, one shouldn't just say O GREAT, NOW I CANNOT LEARN PHOTOGRAPHY, because it's not true.

  4. #44
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    That is correct; so long as it has manual functions it will do.

    That said, I think the manual functions on a P&S are quite frustrating to use; at least those that I've used before.

    By Manual functions, I'm referring to setting aperture, shutter speed; checking metering and then setting these two and manual focusing. Also, for aperture, the PnS I've used before can only go from F2.8 to F8; not sure if that is very helpful for learning when you can't set it to a smaller F stop.

    The traditional way to learn is actually with a manual SLR; although I'll say that nowadays, any DSLR will have the same manual capabilities as a manual SLR and as such, will be good enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    but got many many p&s models with manual functions these days.

    that said, there is always something to learn.. i think no one's asking anyone to just use p&s to learn, just that IF one is stuck with a p&s, one shouldn't just say O GREAT, NOW I CANNOT LEARN PHOTOGRAPHY, because it's not true.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by aryanto View Post
    You should not think the camera that makes the photo, it is the photographer that makes the photo.
    And you dont need DSLR.
    Without D-SLRs, how to attract future batches of student to join photography club? In current times, D-SLR is not considered even amateur anymore. Furthermore a low-end D-SLR such as D40 or 20D isn't even close to expensive now.

    Quote Originally Posted by aryanto View Post
    Photography can be learnt even with P&S.
    Photographer must learn the limitation of each camera on hand and work within the perimiter of that limitation rather than push it over the limit.
    For example as discussed, some "limitations" such as the small sensors of P & S cameras simply make it extremely difficult to understand the idea of Depth-of-field when everything seems to be in focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by aryanto View Post
    There are plenty to learn with static display or landscape / night photography.
    This I agree, a good place to begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by aryanto View Post
    You guys can play with cardboard and make your own "studio" equipment. Just make sure all light bulb are the same and then you can tweak white balance later. You dont have to buy expensive studio flashes.
    A simple studio setup doesn't even touch $500. No reason for the students to seem so under-equiped.

    Quote Originally Posted by aryanto View Post
    Of course you have to manage the expectation from other sponsors and not let them to push you guys to commit to take picture of school sport event and want you guys to produce newspaper like photos, because those are taken with easily equipments with 5 digit price.
    Sports is important for schools and if the photography club isn't able to cover a sports meet properly, no way a school will support a photography club. But no need to be "newspaper like"... (actually "newspaper like" doesn't mean anything to me, do you think our papers shoot very exceptional photographs?)

    If a photography club/CCA cannot impress future batches of students and the school authority... I'd say forget it. This is the sad and still unavoidable case of educational hierachy...
    Last edited by surrephoto; 17th August 2009 at 06:24 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by Headshotzx View Post
    Have you tried showing them photos you think are really good? Like, browse flickr explore and ask the interested members for their opinions on some photos and stuff. or browse Joe McNally's and other ppl's websites.
    Yeap, i've tried, but sometimes they dont respond much. Like i show them pics of light painting, landscapes, marco etc, but they're just like wow and then forget about it. I tried having a talk with them and asking what they want learn, but they're like "Anything". However, if i ask them to go and do smth (our latest experiment was light painting), they'd do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zingnaphone View Post
    Try organising activities that will break the sterotype of students thinking that photog is for slackers/boring/nothing to do/rich people. For example, you can teach the members in your cca on how to make a simple pinhole camera with only a matchbox http://www.matchboxpinhole.com/ and perhaps organise a simple workshop for the rest of the student population. Or if you have the budget, try out underwater photography (pns with casing) where you can rope in the help of various scuba-diving clubs or nature conservation organisations to give an introduction or even joining them for their activites. I know it's not easy cose I had experience with starting up new ccas before. You need to have a clear idea of your objectives for your cca, get contacts and go from there. Having a supportive teacher-in-charge helps too. Good luck!
    Okay, the pinhole camera sounds fun. I'll try it out for my next meeting I was thinking of organising a simple workshop too, but i'm not sure if i'm biting more than i can chew/doubt about whether people will turn up etc. Do you think it's a good idea? Underwater photography is probably a no no until we're more developed or stuff like that. I'll def try out the pinhole camera. Thanks a bunch!

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Go back to film...

    make the students practise on the concepts of visualising the picture, and getting the end result from it. Each one shoots one roll and see what they have gotten out of it in the end. Just need to develope and scan the roll, then you can edit, view and compile the pics on digital format.

    But before all these, they have to understand better on the technical points, etc.
    But going back to film would require more money to buy film cameras (We only have digital cameras). So unless we have more funds/people who have film cameras and know how to use it (i've nearly no experience of using a film camera), would it then work.

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    you don't need a dslr to learn photography or take good pictures
    work with what you have, file p&s also can

    org outings and shoot good pictures
    inspire the members by visiting web sites and discuss composition and techniques
    produce the good images
    and show the school just what you can do...

    the key word is passion

    once you have the passion, nothing is impossible
    I'm not sure about p&s. To me it's like p&s, you dont really get to play around with aperture etc. Also, from experience, when i was a newbie and i saw p&s camera i would get really turned off and bored :/ I mean, i know it's about the person behind the camera.... But i believe people will take you more seriously when you use dslr. Might be considering semipros instead though.

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    I would agree with all of you if only today's student had a good attitude and would start from scratch.

    We must also rmb if such activities do not benefit the school, the school will not support. The best way to impress the school is by using good equipment to produce good shots during events. I stand to be corrected.
    Yeap, currently trying to think of ways to 'impress' the school and convince them to support out cca. (We have a horrible reputation of slackers)

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99 View Post
    My own advice - don't depend on the schools or teachers

    go out shoot on your own, if it's an idiot proof cam. Keep shooting, the more you shoot
    the better you will understand and develop the eye for photography. Don't be limited
    by your sch's lack of equipment or lack of enthus from friends or teachers.

    Go look at exhibitions, go library flip through copies of photography magazines. Go
    browse at bookshops. Go out and take photos alone, less herd mentality. Go do/shoot
    different genre, events, weddings, still life, reportage...everything. Learn on your own
    and you will thank yourself for the determination.

    It's easy to buy a cam, not easy to be a good photographer with a heart.


    this i super agree.. not many sch leaders understand what it takes or needs for photography to succeed in their school.
    Some feel buying some low level grade equipment is enough to produce award winning photographers at sch level.
    Most see it as extra manpower to help provide free photography for sch events. Very disappointing mentality.
    Hmm i understand what you mean. Will listen to you and go for more exhibts etc. However, now i think my piority would be to try to instill passion into the members. I'm pretty active in photography (Will borrow books and read up etc), but i doubt most of the members do so. I can't blame them as they do not have a camera to try out the things they learn. From experience, it was only after i got myself a dslr that i really got super into photography. And sigh, i'm thinking of writing a proposal to the school. Maybe then they will be able to understand our situation.
    Inline Culture (:

  7. #47
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    photography is about capturing light

    just as long as the camera can take photos, it is a good camera
    P&S can learn composition and that is a good place to start
    P&S can also learn angle of view
    P&S can also learn lens perspective
    P&S can also learn show shutter

    it is only up to the person to look at his/her tools and make the best of it.
    there are lots of really nice images in the macro and close-up gallery that were taken by P&S cameras

    eg: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561298
    shot with a LX3
    Last edited by ortega; 17th August 2009 at 06:50 PM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    there is always film SLRs too

  9. #49

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by aryanto View Post
    You should not think the camera that makes the photo, it is the photographer that makes the photo.
    And you dont need DSLR.

    Photography can be learnt even with P&S.
    Photographer must learn the limitation of each camera on hand and work within the perimiter of that limitation rather than push it over the limit.

    There are plenty to learn with static display or landscape / night photography.

    You guys can play with cardboard and make your own "studio" equipment. Just make sure all light bulb are the same and then you can tweak white balance later. You dont have to buy expensive studio flashes.

    Of course you have to manage the expectation from other sponsors and not let them to push you guys to commit to take picture of school sport event and want you guys to produce newspaper like photos, because those are taken with easily equipments with 5 digit price.

    As for software there are plenty of free software to use.

    And dont limit yourself to photography. With photography you can make stop motion animation, interesting scrap book, etc. Play around with simple yet creative photo editing. Dont aim for image manipulation standard like those used in movies now.

    When I was in high school i just use my ricoh p&s using film and took candid photo of us in class, with different teachers, and then make a comic based on those photos. Each teachers have their own stock phrase and I make buble speech of those and simply glue it on top of the 3R prints. Yes - that time 4R prints are quite expensive!

    Learn to work within limitations, cos in live that is what we all have to do.
    Ahh i see. Yeah, more of you guys have been metioning about p&s. Will consider that. However, i'm worried that the jrs may find p&s 'lame'/'unable to take nice photos' like a dslr. I mean, you know, most people have this kind of mindset. Oh yeah, true true. There are things like stop motion and scrap books. Will have a meeting on stop motion soon. Thanks for the idea! You're right when you say we have to learn to work within limitations. I will keep that in mind. Thanks for the advice

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    but got many many p&s models with manual functions these days.

    that said, there is always something to learn.. i think no one's asking anyone to just use p&s to learn, just that IF one is stuck with a p&s, one shouldn't just say O GREAT, NOW I CANNOT LEARN PHOTOGRAPHY, because it's not true.
    Well yeah, that has to be agreed. Even p&s can learn photography, just that harder to learn about aperture and shutter speed etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    That is correct; so long as it has manual functions it will do.

    That said, I think the manual functions on a P&S are quite frustrating to use; at least those that I've used before.

    By Manual functions, I'm referring to setting aperture, shutter speed; checking metering and then setting these two and manual focusing. Also, for aperture, the PnS I've used before can only go from F2.8 to F8; not sure if that is very helpful for learning when you can't set it to a smaller F stop.

    The traditional way to learn is actually with a manual SLR; although I'll say that nowadays, any DSLR will have the same manual capabilities as a manual SLR and as such, will be good enough.
    That's what i think too! The manual functions are very annoying to change on a p&s. However, if getting a budget fails, may have to think among the lines of p&s.

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    Without D-SLRs, how to attract future batches of student to join photography club? In current times, D-SLR is not considered even amateur anymore. Furthermore a low-end D-SLR such as D40 or 20D isn't even close to expensive now.



    For example as discussed, some "limitations" such as the small sensors of P & S cameras simply make it extremely difficult to understand the idea of Depth-of-field when everything seems to be in focus.



    This I agree, a good place to begin.



    A simple studio setup doesn't even touch $500. No reason for the students to seem so under-equiped.



    Sports is important for schools and if the photography club isn't able to cover a sports meet properly, no way a school will support a photography club. But no need to be "newspaper like"... (actually "newspaper like" doesn't mean anything to me, do you think our papers shoot very exceptional photographs?)

    If a photography club/CCA cannot impress future batches of students and the school authority... I'd say forget it. This is the sad and still unavoidable case of educational hierachy...
    Once again, everything need money No lah, cannot say forget it! Must keep trying. I want to spread the passion for photography in the school
    Inline Culture (:

  10. #50

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    photography is about capturing light

    just as long as the camera can take photos, it is a good camera
    P&S can learn composition and that is a good place to start
    P&S can also learn angle of view
    P&S can also learn lens perspective
    P&S can also learn show shutter

    it is only up to the person to look at his/her tools and make the best of it.
    there are lots of really nice images in the macro and close-up gallery that were taken by P&S cameras

    eg: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561298
    shot with a LX3
    Very good points you raised up there. I think if cannot get slrs, will change to p&s.

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    there is always film SLRs too
    But that will need darkroom/developing pics costs etc.
    Inline Culture (:

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by Repty View Post
    Very good points you raised up there. I think if cannot get slrs, will change to p&s.



    But that will need darkroom/developing pics costs etc.
    i am sure almost everyone has a P&S camera

    you can start off by getting some notice board space and display some nice photos there
    then shock them by the fact that those were taken with a P&S camera

    yes the same P&S camera that they also have, want to learn how to make full use of the P&S camera that they already have? join the club and learn from like minded members

    night shot, macro shots, smokey water shots and fun party shots
    Last edited by ortega; 17th August 2009 at 07:09 PM.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    eg: these were taken using a P&S camera








  13. #53

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    i am sure almost everyone has a P&S camera

    you can start off by getting some notice board space and display some nice photos there
    then shock them by the fact that those were taken with a P&S camera

    yes the same P&S camera that they also have, want to learn how to make full use of the P&S camera that they already have? join the club and learn from like minded members

    night shot, macro shots, smokey water shots and fun party shots
    Woah that's a very good point. Hmm, so you mean by that is for like spreading awareness to the people in the school about my cca by teaching them how to make full use of their own p&s?
    Last edited by ortega; 17th August 2009 at 07:09 PM.
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    yes empower them, show them that yes they too can take good pictures with their own equipment


  15. #55
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    make the cca fun by organising lots of outings
    shoot and learn at the same time

    tell then not to be afraid of making mistakes,
    you will learn more when you think about the image and how to correct the mistakes

  16. #56

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    even most hp cams can take at least decent photos. gogogo!
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  17. #57
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    of course after you poison them with the ability to take good images
    you can poison them more with the BBB virus

    i believe that comes with the hobby

    once you have a collection of good images by the members, speak to your school and request to hold a mini exhibition
    showcasing the images of your members

    when other people see what they can do then the ball will really start rolling

  18. #58
    Member sonyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    One more thing.

    Shoot those d50 untill shutter count over and die.

    then tell teacher that no more dslr.

    then have new body le lor!!

    YAY!
    SAMSUNG HMX- H100
    Videography :)

  19. #59

    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Here's a compilation of all suggestions so far:

    -Instill interest by doing fun things
    Landscape
    Freezing water drops
    Smoke
    Light painting
    Stop motion
    Making a pin hole camera

    -Buy new gear
    Tripods
    Flashes
    Body
    Tele lens?

    -Hire a trainer
    Someone to teach more in depth
    Photographer to share experiences/Motivational talk

    -More members
    Donít limit members (find to try those with interest)
    Those with cameras may not be passionate
    Interest!
    Donít have TOO many
    Can hold a mini exhibtion

    -Join more competitions
    Helps to get funds
    Contributes to the school
    Raises awareness about cca

    -Sell photos
    Get funds for cca
    Raises awareness

    -Stick to one type of photography
    Studio photography (looks impressive)
    Group photography (group/class shots for school to sell)
    Sports photography
    Event photography (shoot nice pics during school events)

    -Create a website
    Complies information
    Raises awareness and credibility

    -Become own cca
    Leave from infocomm
    Easier to instill interest

    -Spread interest to non members as well
    Show the pics that p&s cameras can take
    Raises awareness for cca and credibility

    -Raise funds
    Provides more equipment and trainers etc

    -Passion
    Need self motivation and interest
    Depend on yourself
    Self teach and research
    Person behind the camera that matters
    Can be done with p&s cameras
    Learn from mistakes

    -Show what you can take with a camera
    Pro photos to inspire the members
    Instill passion and interest

    -Have a clear vision
    Know what we want photography to be

    Thanks for all suggestions so far! You guys are brillant. Will be talking to cca teacher and members tomorrow.
    Inline Culture (:

  20. #60
    Member sonyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestions on how to improve photography cca

    Quote Originally Posted by Repty View Post
    Here's a compilation of all suggestions so far:

    -Instill interest by doing fun things
    Landscape
    Freezing water drops
    Smoke
    Light painting
    Stop motion
    Making a pin hole camera

    -Buy new gear
    Tripods
    Flashes
    Body
    Tele lens?

    -Hire a trainer
    Someone to teach more in depth
    Photographer to share experiences/Motivational talk

    -More members
    Donít limit members (find to try those with interest)
    Those with cameras may not be passionate
    Interest!
    Donít have TOO many
    Can hold a mini exhibtion

    -Join more competitions
    Helps to get funds
    Contributes to the school
    Raises awareness about cca

    -Sell photos
    Get funds for cca
    Raises awareness

    -Stick to one type of photography
    Studio photography (looks impressive)
    Group photography (group/class shots for school to sell)
    Sports photography
    Event photography (shoot nice pics during school events)

    -Create a website
    Complies information
    Raises awareness and credibility

    -Become own cca
    Leave from infocomm
    Easier to instill interest

    -Spread interest to non members as well
    Show the pics that p&s cameras can take
    Raises awareness for cca and credibility

    -Raise funds
    Provides more equipment and trainers etc

    -Passion
    Need self motivation and interest
    Depend on yourself
    Self teach and research
    Person behind the camera that matters
    Can be done with p&s cameras
    Learn from mistakes

    -Show what you can take with a camera
    Pro photos to inspire the members
    Instill passion and interest

    -Have a clear vision
    Know what we want photography to be

    Thanks for all suggestions so far! You guys are brillant. Will be talking to cca teacher and members tomorrow.

    We should set up a mini exhibition.
    and tripod is the most basic thing to have
    SAMSUNG HMX- H100
    Videography :)

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